Resolution to flutter at 25-30 mph

[skipgen]

They are excellent. Good grip, silent and comfortable. Much better than my previous Michelin Primacy. It's a pity they did not fix the problem that frankly, appears to be non-fixable

Good info about the tires, they seem to be good performers for not much coin - Bummer about the other issue. It's pretty amazing that they are so clueless about something that seems to have a significant percentage of occurrence.

 

[phdegraff]

The suggestion to get the wheels off the ground and run it up to 30-ish mph is a great idea, but that could be done by a dealer in moments with a frame-lifting hoist. Can we get a dealer interested enough to do it? Can we try it at a "corner" gas station that has the right kind of lift?
I have reservations about doing only the rear wheels off the ground with an AWD car like mine. Also, as TinsleyC said, the problem may not show up with no load on the drive train - except that mine vibrates even coasting in neutral - right at its favorite 32mph "spot". Gotta wonder.
Is Hyundai listening in case we actually solve their problem???

 

[phdegraff]

If you go back to posts describing the flat-spotting problems that were ubiquitous with the 2015 Genesis equipped with the Hankooks, you'll see that flat-spotting was still alive and well in the Genesis and a major reason that Hyundai offered the free tire replacement for everyone in the first two years of ownership. It may not be your problem, but it sure didn't disappear in all tires or cars in the seventies. The following is a quote from an article written in 2012:

Have you ever noticed a minor vibration that appears to go away in about five minutes of driving, only to appear the next morning? What you're experiencing is a phenomenon called flatspotting. The tire develops a "square" side because of the weight of the vehicle resting on the tire. Tires are more apt to flatspot during colder weather, therefore drivers in the Snowbelt will begin to notice this in the fall. Higher speed rated tires are more likely to flatspot because they use a cap of nylon or polyamide that's between the steel belts and tire tread to reinforce the tire so it can survive the high-speed test.

As the tire warms up it becomes "round" again, causing the vibration to go away. It's particularly annoying for drivers that have short commutes because their tires never get a chance to lose the vibration.

Flatspotting can occur on any vehicle but it's often masked so it's unnoticeable. Every once in awhile it can show up in new versions of an existing model. For example, when Acura launched the 2004 Acura TL, most TLs were equipped with the Bridgestone Turanza EL42 (not to be confused with the Turanza Serenity and its replacement the Turanza Serenity Plus) and many drivers experienced flatspotting on their vehicle.

How do you go about solving this issue? Many drivers experience much less or no flatspotting by switching to a tire that uses a polyamide cap instead of a nylon cap because nylon tends to have a memory effect.

If you're looking for tires that are more resistant to flatspotting, try to pick an option with a polyamide cap instead of nylon. Many manufacturers, such as Michelin have begun to use polyamide more.

Hey BillZ, I've been off of here for a while. Sorry to be late getting back to you. Maybe you should Google "polyamide because that is exactly the generic name for nylon (which was a trade name that itself became generic). It was polyester (Dacron) belting that did away with the memory problem of nylon (or polyamide) belted tires.
Someone else here thought that "daily" driving wouldn't make a nylon tire develop a flat spot - but they would do it just sitting overnight, sometimes for just a few hours. (Arguably the same thing, I guess.) It didn't take days of sitting.
MEANwhile .... we're all still trying to find a resolution to the *vibration* that occurs in my car (2016 3.8, AWD and all 3 options) at 31-33mph. Some days it's not noticeable, some days it's quite obvious, it always goes away after about four miles of driving. It sure is a mystery! Thanks for helping with the search!

 

[BillZ]

I wasn't recommending anything as a cure for flatspotting. I was merely quoting an article which confirmed the ongoing nature of the issue contrary to the suggestion it had been "solved" in the mid-seventies. With the original Hankooks on the 2015's, flatspotting would occur in a matter of hours. Some tires may be better than others at resisting flatspotting, but it's still an issue. The good thing is, for the most part, it goes away with a few miles of driving.

 

[osnv]

The suggestion to get the wheels off the ground and run it up to 30-ish mph is a great idea, but that could be done by a dealer in moments with a frame-lifting hoist. Can we get a dealer interested enough to do it? Can we try it at a "corner" gas station that has the right kind of lift?
I have reservations about doing only the rear wheels off the ground with an AWD car like mine. Also, as TinsleyC said, the problem may not show up with no load on the drive train - except that mine vibrates even coasting in neutral - right at its favorite 32mph "spot". Gotta wonder.
Is Hyundai listening in case we actually solve their problem???

You nailed it - the fact it vibrates in neutral means it has nothing to do with transmission. Mine does the same thing. Unfortunately, all things point to flatspotting and this is something that we can't fix...Hyundai is not listening, they blame the tires and said that there was "nothing they can do". Time for breach of warranty claims...

 

[phdegraff]

You nailed it - the fact it vibrates in neutral means it has nothing to do with transmission. Mine does the same thing. Unfortunately, all things point to flatspotting and this is something that we can't fix...Hyundai is not listening, they blame the tires and said that there was "nothing they can do". Time for breach of warranty claims...

Sorry osnv, but I have to disagree with your assumption that it can only be tires. Coasting in neutral only disconnects the engine. The entire drive train is still rotating - and my vibration is a thrumming like an out-of alignment u-joint, not a thumpity-thumpity as I have experienced (many many times) with tires. I'll grant that the old nylon belted tires would stop their thumpity thump after a few miles, and this damned vibration does the same, but that's where the comparison ends. My opinion is that Hyundai is blaming it on tires because it quite possibly was tires in the beginning - but that was a different problem from mine. By the way my tires are Michelins, in case anyone wants to know.
Another thing that points me away from tires is that the vibration - MY vibration - occurs ONLY within one or two mph right around 32 mph. It's max at 32. If it really were tires we would feel or experience it at all speeds. I apologize that I haven't had the opportunity to see if it comes back at speeds over 80 as someone else did here. Here in Connecticut I'm chicken to expose myself to the police at those speeds.
Respectfully, Pete

 

[osnv]

Sorry osnv, but I have to disagree with your assumption that it can only be tires. Coasting in neutral only disconnects the engine. The entire drive train is still rotating - and my vibration is a thrumming like an out-of alignment u-joint, not a thumpity-thumpity as I have experienced (many many times) with tires. I'll grant that the old nylon belted tires would stop their thumpity thump after a few miles, and this damned vibration does the same, but that's where the comparison ends. My opinion is that Hyundai is blaming it on tires because it quite possibly was tires in the beginning - but that was a different problem from mine. By the way my tires are Michelins, in case anyone wants to know.
Another thing that points me away from tires is that the vibration - MY vibration - occurs ONLY within one or two mph right around 32 mph. It's max at 32. If it really were tires we would feel or experience it at all speeds. I apologize that I haven't had the opportunity to see if it comes back at speeds over 80 as someone else did here. Here in Connecticut I'm chicken to expose myself to the police at those speeds.
Respectfully, Pete

First, I have never said it can ONLY be tires. Unfortunately, nobody seems to know what it is. I had all (U-joints, transfer case, front and rear driveshaft) but the transmission itself replaced with no change in vibration whatsoever. It appears that we have similar issues - vibration in the driver seat and arm console between 29 Mph and 32 Mph. Not below and not above those speeds. It goes away eventually as you drive. The owner of the tire shop I used for 25 years believes that this car is too smooth and way too sensitive to flatspotting. He saved my Michelin twice to make sure they are perfectly round, road force balancing numbers are perfect as well. After I leave his shop, the drive is great, but next morning the vibration is back. I said that Hyundai blames it on tires. I have appointment at the dealership on 5/27 with brand new set of tires and old vibration... Not sure what their excuse is going to be. I share your opinion that the problem is not caused by the tires, but at this point I ran out of ideas.

 

[phdegraff]

First, I have never said it can ONLY be tires. Unfortunately, nobody seems to know what it is. I had all (U-joints, transfer case, front and rear driveshaft) but the transmission itself replaced with no change in vibration whatsoever. It appears that we have similar issues - vibration in the driver seat and arm console between 29 Mph and 32 Mph. Not below and not above those speeds. It goes away eventually as you drive. The owner of the tire shop I used for 25 years believes that this car is too smooth and way too sensitive to flatspotting. He saved my Michelin twice to make sure they are perfectly round, road force balancing numbers are perfect as well. After I leave his shop, the drive is great, but next morning the vibration is back. I said that Hyundai blames it on tires. I have appointment at the dealership on 5/27 with brand new set of tires and old vibration... Not sure what their excuse is going to be. I share your opinion that the problem is not caused by the tires, but at this point I ran out of ideas.

Hi osnv. When you said "Unfortunately, all things point to flatspotting .." I thought you had given up on any other possible cause. I apologize for jumping the gun.
It seem that you have spent quite a few of your own bucks trying to find a resolution to "our problem". That has to add an awful lot to your frustration.
Since the pandemic started I usually drive about every other day and usually short distances. In the warmer weather of the past week or three it seems that the vibration is less and sometimes hardly noticeable. Is it just a cold weather phenomenon?
I inquired of my favorite service writer at our dealership. She said she had never heard of the problem. I'm skeptical but I didn't push the point. Another problem I have is that my dealer is 12 miles away and the vibration is gone for the day by the time I get there. Can't fix what you can't experience. My son's identical G2 Genesis, all options, 35K miles has the same vibration but he's on the road a lot so the fact that it goes away after a few miles makes it minimal for him. He has decided to live with it.
Will we ever find out what it really is? I'm going to hang in on this forum just in case....

 

[G-180003]

Mine does it both with summer and winter tires.... not the tires

If it's any consolation, my summer set is on 19" Genesis Sport rims. Very heavy compare to stock 18" I use for winter tires. I can say the noise is much noticeable or louder on summer set. Could it be flat spot? I drive into work in the morning, pretty loud, coming home 8hrs later, still there but not as loud. Maybe weather has to do with tires as well? I don't want the run around from dealer if there is no fix.

 

[Kraig Wilkinson]

If it's any consolation, my summer set is on 19" Genesis Sport rims. Very heavy compare to stock 18" I use for winter tires. I can say the noise is much noticeable or louder on summer set. Could it be flat spot? I drive into work in the morning, pretty loud, coming home 8hrs later, still there but not as loud. Maybe weather has to do with tires as well? I don't want the run around from dealer if there is no fix.

If it's any consolation, my summer set is on 19" Genesis Sport rims. Very heavy compare to stock 18" I use for winter tires. I can say the noise is much noticeable or louder on summer set. Could it be flat spot? I drive into work in the morning, pretty loud, coming home 8hrs later, still there but not as loud. Maybe weather has to do with tires as well? I don't want the run around from dealer if there is no fix.

Installed ridged collars Thursday had alignment done Friday. Car feels nice! 34k on odometer so I was not sure how much they would help out? They tightened up the way the car takes bumps/potholes. I recommend installing them. No snake oil.

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[ChinDynasty]

Installed ridged collars Thursday had alignment done Friday. Car feels nice! 34k on odometer so I was not sure how much they would help out? They tightened up the way the car takes bumps/potholes. I recommend installing them. No snake oil.

Is Flutter still present? I forgot to mention on my summer rims 19s and tires, the flutter noise is significantly noticeable compare to the stock 18s winter set. Previous test, warming up the vehicle did not change or made the sound disappear when driving. So ultimate question is? Warming up/driving the G80 with drivetrain in motion over time makes the noise disappear. Could it really be just flatspot on the tires? How long does it take to get rid of flatspot tires? What if I put my winter tires on and drive it right away? If no flutter, it could really tell me it is the tires. I will try and report back: I'm just going to change to winter set and drive. Tires shouldn't have any flat spots.

 

[TinsleyC]

What ever it is, it has to be heat or shape / change related. Something is changing it's physical properties during the drive which makes the sound go away.

 

[jdwhite]

This is just beneath the center console. It's almost like a playing card barely sticking in a bicycle spoke as it's turning.

What baffles me is the very unique criteria for the temporary noise (I don't have the vibration... Yet). It's more of an annoyance and mind-boggle than anything for me.

I have a 2015 ultimate. had the thrumming sound from console a long while back. finally fixed when they replaced the propeller shaft. gone. now, a couple years later, having the vibration problem. started after having a new transmission installed. they have replaced the driveshaft 2 more times which improved it, but still ther at 29mph, 46 mph and 76mph. going back in to check it out. already replaced, balanced all tires, checked wheels, alignment done. dealer said they checked suspension a short while ago, so still a mystery.

 

[TinsleyC]

If you all with "flutter" haven't seen this thread, you need to. I think arcman nailed it.

Say Goodbye to the Flat Spotted Tires / Shuttering Theory

Finally got around to getting the car up in the air to do some investigating. With three items on the list, this turned into a two-dayer. Rotate tires, craft a drain line so I don't have to lift the car to change oil (yeah, I did just buy a vacuum pump but it will be quicker this way). The...

genesisowners.com

 

[ActionJ]

The creaking sunroof was fixed by the TSB. Hyundai does not know what causes the vibration and blame it on tires. Until they have a fix, a recall is not possible

What was the exact TSB # or thread that fixed the sunroof creak. I have had mine in 3 times and all they do is grease the sunroof.

 

[ActionJ]

If you go back to posts describing the flat-spotting problems that were ubiquitous with the 2015 Genesis equipped with the Hankooks, you'll see that flat-spotting was still alive and well in the Genesis and a major reason that Hyundai offered the free tire replacement for everyone in the first two years of ownership. It may not be your problem, but it sure didn't disappear in all tires or cars in the seventies. The following is a quote from an article written in 2012:

Have you ever noticed a minor vibration that appears to go away in about five minutes of driving, only to appear the next morning? What you're experiencing is a phenomenon called flatspotting. The tire develops a "square" side because of the weight of the vehicle resting on the tire. Tires are more apt to flatspot during colder weather, therefore drivers in the Snowbelt will begin to notice this in the fall. Higher speed rated tires are more likely to flatspot because they use a cap of nylon or polyamide that's between the steel belts and tire tread to reinforce the tire so it can survive the high-speed test.

As the tire warms up it becomes "round" again, causing the vibration to go away. It's particularly annoying for drivers that have short commutes because their tires never get a chance to lose the vibration.

Flatspotting can occur on any vehicle but it's often masked so it's unnoticeable. Every once in awhile it can show up in new versions of an existing model. For example, when Acura launched the 2004 Acura TL, most TLs were equipped with the Bridgestone Turanza EL42 (not to be confused with the Turanza Serenity and its replacement the Turanza Serenity Plus) and many drivers experienced flatspotting on their vehicle.

How do you go about solving this issue? Many drivers experience much less or no flatspotting by switching to a tire that uses a polyamide cap instead of a nylon cap because nylon tends to have a memory effect.

If you're looking for tires that are more resistant to flatspotting, try to pick an option with a polyamide cap instead of nylon. Many manufacturers, such as Michelin have begun to use polyamide more.

Dead on, mine has this with the Michelins and it has gotten worse because of Covid and I now work from home permanently so it sits too long. The car is heavy, and you need to check tire pressure is exact for all tires or it will add to the issue.

 

[ActionJ]

Good info about the tires, they seem to be good performers for not much coin - Bummer about the other issue. It's pretty amazing that they are so clueless about something that seems to have a significant percentage of occurrence.

The Michelins wear out way before the stated life. You get the warranty with them to offset it for new tires.

 

[osnv]

What was the exact TSB # or thread that fixed the sunroof creak. I have had mine in 3 times and all they do is grease the sunroof.

19-BD-007H

 

[G-674262]

What exactly is a flutter, is it a sound, or a feeling? Is it like a short back and forth wobble?

If it goes away when warm, could it be that the engine is running "uneven" when cold, like maybe only part of the cylinders are firing? If you shift to neutral, does it go away instantly?

On my car it does not. I also tried shifting to a different gear 1 time at 30mph to see if the vibration would go away and that didn't happen. On colder nights it vibrates even worst. I've been at the dealership for 2 years now January with the same complaint. It started with a flutter sound which would go away, then the vibration started......its 14° out now and I know its in vibrate mode.
Disturbing to be putting my family through this.

 

[phdegraff]

On my car it does not. I also tried shifting to a different gear 1 time at 30mph to see if the vibration would go away and that didn't happen. On colder nights it vibrates even worst. I've been at the dealership for 2 years now January with the same complaint. It started with a flutter sound which would go away, then the vibration started......its 14° out now and I know its in vibrate mode.
Disturbing to be putting my family through this.

I agree, in gear, out of gear, the same. Mine is from ~31mph to ~ 35mph and only on the first run of the day (usually) and only for about the first 3 - 5 miles. It is a vibration exactly like bad bearings in a drive shaft universal joint, but on mine it goes away. (2016 3.8AWD sedan with ALL options.)