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2013 Genesis sedan 3.8 more starting issues

CMorris

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Genesis Model Type
1G Genesis Sedan (2009-2014)
My car has the intermittent starting issues. Push on the brake, push the button and everything lights up but no start. I changed the brake switch as recommended in a lot of threads, and still happening. I have tried shifting to neutral, nothing. I have tried turning the queen, nothing. Even when I try to do the hold the start button for 20 seconds, normally it still doesn't start. Anyone have any other ideas or parts to change that worked for them? All lights when on are fully bright, I don't hear a clicking noise when I push the button. It will leave me stranded multiple times one day, then have 2 days of perfect starts... Car has 92000 miles on it, fully loaded.
Thanks in advance for any help!!
 
My car has the intermittent starting issues. Push on the brake, push the button and everything lights up but no start. I changed the brake switch as recommended in a lot of threads, and still happening. I have tried shifting to neutral, nothing. I have tried turning the queen, nothing. Even when I try to do the hold the start button for 20 seconds, normally it still doesn't start. Anyone have any other ideas or parts to change that worked for them? All lights when on are fully bright, I don't hear a clicking noise when I push the button. It will leave me stranded multiple times one day, then have 2 days of perfect starts... Car has 92000 miles on it, fully loaded.
Thanks in advance for any help!!
Welcome. Moved to the Genesis sedan forum instead of the lounge.
 
Does the engine turn over like its trying to start or is it just a click?
 
Does the engine turn over like its trying to start or is it just a click?
It does not try to start, and I don't even hear a click. Dash just lights up without any start. It's also not consistent, just completely intermittent.
 
Did you change the battery in the key fob or insert it in its holder?
 
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Other than the dash lighting up, there are no indications of trouble - no messages in the center display for example? On the START switch, there is a small LED light... what color is it when the car fails to start? RED/AMBER or BLUE? If Blue, the car thinks you want the dash ON but don't what to start the engine... With engine running, the LED should be off.

If you push the key fob into the slot below the stereo (earlier model year cars) or hold it against the START button (later model years witihout the slot) while pushing the button, does that make a difference? In theory the dash shouldn't even light up if the car can't detect the fob; putting the fob into the slot or holding it against the button is supposed to help if the car can't detect the fob at all. Still, even if your dash lights up (indicating the fob can be seen by the car) it never hurts to try the backup method. If the backup method works, your car needs dealer attention regarding the fobs or the multitude of electronic bits that get into the alarm and start-up system.

How far does the brake pedal move when you are trying to start? If the power brake assist isn't working, the pedal will be very stiff and won't move down enough unless you really stand on it. Once the engine starts, if the brake pedal then mushes down a lot, that is a sure indicator that the brake vacuum booster unit, or the hose feeding it, or check valves in the input, are bad and need to be replaced ASAP. It's a safety thing - the brake power assist will be lower than normal and might not exist in the event the engine stalls. Basically, engine vacuum is supposed to be "trapped" in the booster assembly; that vacuum should remain trapped for at least a day (should really be a couple of days) without leaking away. A brake pedal that is very stiff as soon as you press it indicates loss of booster vacuum from leaks. Note: to enable the start sequence, the brake pedal has to be depressed a tad beyond what it takes to trigger the rear stop lights. If you can't see the brake lights reflecting off the garage wall or a car parked behind yours, either you aren't pushing the pedal far enough of the switch is still bad.

You mentioned you tried putting the shift lever in Neutral as well - so you seem to be aware of the "Park/Neutral start switch" failure that can affect many auto transmission cars... still, while trying to start, wiggle the lever and/or push it forwards or aft in the Park and Neutral positions - don't just put the lever in eitehr position and leave it/let go of it. Basically, try anything you can think of to deal with a bad/flaky switch. If that makes a difference, the shift lever assembly By the way, Hyundai manuals call this the "Transaxle range switch" in the service manuals.

And double-check the battery cables plus the ground in the trunk. Even though the dash lights up, issues in the battery wiring have caused all sorts of goofball issues for other folks on this site. It's easy enough to check. Crud under the ground bolt in the trunk is common; another issue is the positive cable clamp may not properly grip many replacement/aftermarket batteries... adding a shim of some sort cures those issues.

If you have some mechanical skills, locate the starter motor itself on the engine. It'll have a beefy wire feeding it; that's the +12volt feed for the motor. There will also be a smaller wire going to the solenoid assembly - the smaller cylinder part of the starter motor assembly. Put a voltmeter on that wire (and to battery negative post or any decent ground point) and look for +12volts when a helper hits the START button. If no voltage is present, the bug is in the car electronics; if voltage is present then it appears the starter solenoid is dead. You can also use a small 12 volt light bulb in this wire - instead of a voltmeter - to make the test... a bulb like a turn signal bulb works well. Don't try a large bulb like an old headlight bulb though.

The engine-start sequence is controlled by the "Power Distribution Module" (PDM) under the dash, mounted vertically next to the stereo stuff, above the metal reinforcing plate; it has two wire connectors feeding it. It drives a handful of relays in one of the under-hood boxes for the equivalent of mechanical key car's ACC, ON, and START positions; they're labeled STARTER, ACC, IGN1, and IGN2 or ESCL-something. It also triggers the steering wheel unlock - do you hear that whiz-whiz sound when the car won't start? The PDM is actually two computers inside; if either fails the car can be shut off by holding the START switch for a few seconds, or pushing it three times, but it won't allow the engine to re-start. Besides the relays, a 15 amp and a 25 amp fuse (the manuals don't clearly specify where each fuse is located...) feed the PDM so verify those are good and have tight connections. The 25 amp fuse might be labeled ESCL 1 in one of the dash panel fuse boxes; the 15 amp should be in one of the underhood boxes I believe. There is a 10 amp fuse in one of the dashboard panels labeled START; this actually feeds the transaxle range switch. Unplug each one and verify clean contacts. Also, the BLOWER relay (interior a/c fan motor) might be same type/size of relay and, if so, can be swapped with others as a test. The rear window defroster ("heated glass") relay is in that box too; if it is the same physical size then it too is a swap-test candidate.

One other thing is if the "imobilizer" circuit has been activated for some reason... this prevents the starter motor from engaging. Roll a window down, turn the car OFF again, and hold the fob out the window. LOCK and then UNLOCK the car. Bring the fob inside and try starting now; if the engine starts reliably this way then something is tripping the imobilizer.

mike c.
 
Did you change the battery in the key fob or insert it in its holder?
I have changed the battery in both fobs which made no change.. my model does not have the fob holder either, but have tried pushing the start button with the fob, in case the battery was still dead.
 
My car has the intermittent starting issues. Push on the brake, push the button and everything lights up but no start. I changed the brake switch as recommended in a lot of threads, and still happening. I have tried shifting to neutral, nothing. I have tried turning the queen, nothing. Even when I try to do the hold the start button for 20 seconds, normally it still doesn't start. Anyone have any other ideas or parts to change that worked for them? All lights when on are fully bright, I don't hear a clicking noise when I push the button. It will leave me stranded multiple times one day, then have 2 days of perfect starts... Car has 92000 miles on it, fully loaded.
Thanks in advance for any help!!
sounds like your starter is dead
it happened to me and left me stranded in a parking lot during a huge storm!
Should cost about $400-$600 to replace
I had to get my car towed to the dealer to fix as of course it would not start.
 
sounds like your starter is dead
it happened to me and left me stranded in a parking lot during a huge storm!
Should cost about $400-$600 to replace
I had to get my car towed to the dealer to fix as of course it would not start.
Did your starter work intermittently before total failure? Eventually my car has always ended up starting, though sometimes it takes a long time. I did get a response about checking the starter which I plan to do, wish they made access easier for the starter to just pull and confirm.
 
Since you don't hear a click the starter relay also be a culprit. As mikec stated if you have a helper attempt to start the car while you measure the voltage at that small terminal and you don't get any voltage check the relay first. Or if you have a momentary push button tester or a power probe you can bypass the relay and helper all together and send 12V to the starter with the tester. Either way it sounds electrical and can be a bear to troubleshoot.
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Other than the dash lighting up, there are no indications of trouble - no messages in the center display for example? On the START switch, there is a small LED light... what color is it when the car fails to start? RED/AMBER or BLUE? If Blue, the car thinks you want the dash ON but don't what to start the engine... With engine running, the LED should be off.

If you push the key fob into the slot below the stereo (earlier model year cars) or hold it against the START button (later model years witihout the slot) while pushing the button, does that make a difference? In theory the dash shouldn't even light up if the car can't detect the fob; putting the fob into the slot or holding it against the button is supposed to help if the car can't detect the fob at all. Still, even if your dash lights up (indicating the fob can be seen by the car) it never hurts to try the backup method. If the backup method works, your car needs dealer attention regarding the fobs or the multitude of electronic bits that get into the alarm and start-up system.

How far does the brake pedal move when you are trying to start? If the power brake assist isn't working, the pedal will be very stiff and won't move down enough unless you really stand on it. Once the engine starts, if the brake pedal then mushes down a lot, that is a sure indicator that the brake vacuum booster unit, or the hose feeding it, or check valves in the input, are bad and need to be replaced ASAP. It's a safety thing - the brake power assist will be lower than normal and might not exist in the event the engine stalls. Basically, engine vacuum is supposed to be "trapped" in the booster assembly; that vacuum should remain trapped for at least a day (should really be a couple of days) without leaking away. A brake pedal that is very stiff as soon as you press it indicates loss of booster vacuum from leaks. Note: to enable the start sequence, the brake pedal has to be depressed a tad beyond what it takes to trigger the rear stop lights. If you can't see the brake lights reflecting off the garage wall or a car parked behind yours, either you aren't pushing the pedal far enough of the switch is still bad.

You mentioned you tried putting the shift lever in Neutral as well - so you seem to be aware of the "Park/Neutral start switch" failure that can affect many auto transmission cars... still, while trying to start, wiggle the lever and/or push it forwards or aft in the Park and Neutral positions - don't just put the lever in eitehr position and leave it/let go of it. Basically, try anything you can think of to deal with a bad/flaky switch. If that makes a difference, the shift lever assembly By the way, Hyundai manuals call this the "Transaxle range switch" in the service manuals.

And double-check the battery cables plus the ground in the trunk. Even though the dash lights up, issues in the battery wiring have caused all sorts of goofball issues for other folks on this site. It's easy enough to check. Crud under the ground bolt in the trunk is common; another issue is the positive cable clamp may not properly grip many replacement/aftermarket batteries... adding a shim of some sort cures those issues.

If you have some mechanical skills, locate the starter motor itself on the engine. It'll have a beefy wire feeding it; that's the +12volt feed for the motor. There will also be a smaller wire going to the solenoid assembly - the smaller cylinder part of the starter motor assembly. Put a voltmeter on that wire (and to battery negative post or any decent ground point) and look for +12volts when a helper hits the START button. If no voltage is present, the bug is in the car electronics; if voltage is present then it appears the starter solenoid is dead. You can also use a small 12 volt light bulb in this wire - instead of a voltmeter - to make the test... a bulb like a turn signal bulb works well. Don't try a large bulb like an old headlight bulb though.

The engine-start sequence is controlled by the "Power Distribution Module" (PDM) under the dash, mounted vertically next to the stereo stuff, above the metal reinforcing plate; it has two wire connectors feeding it. It drives a handful of relays in one of the under-hood boxes for the equivalent of mechanical key car's ACC, ON, and START positions; they're labeled STARTER, ACC, IGN1, and IGN2 or ESCL-something. It also triggers the steering wheel unlock - do you hear that whiz-whiz sound when the car won't start? The PDM is actually two computers inside; if either fails the car can be shut off by holding the START switch for a few seconds, or pushing it three times, but it won't allow the engine to re-start. Besides the relays, a 15 amp and a 25 amp fuse (the manuals don't clearly specify where each fuse is located...) feed the PDM so verify those are good and have tight connections. The 25 amp fuse might be labeled ESCL 1 in one of the dash panel fuse boxes; the 15 amp should be in one of the underhood boxes I believe. There is a 10 amp fuse in one of the dashboard panels labeled START; this actually feeds the transaxle range switch. Unplug each one and verify clean contacts. Also, the BLOWER relay (interior a/c fan motor) might be same type/size of relay and, if so, can be swapped with others as a test. The rear window defroster ("heated glass") relay is in that box too; if it is the same physical size then it too is a swap-test candidate.

One other thing is if the "imobilizer" circuit has been activated for some reason... this prevents the starter motor from engaging. Roll a window down, turn the car OFF again, and hold the fob out the window. LOCK and then UNLOCK the car. Bring the fob inside and try starting now; if the engine starts reliably this way then something is tripping the imobilizer.

mike c.
Thank you for so much info and detail! Of course car has not had the issue in 2 days, but I have never paid attention to the light on the start button! I will also check the starter and solenoid this weekend! I did check most fuses, though not the ones for the PDM, so I will also verify those are good.
My dash gives no messages of problems, lights up just like normal. I don't have the slot for my fob, but have tried using it to push the start button. The first 2 times I push the brake it feels normal, then gets stiff. I assume that is normal since I am pressing it in without the car on. Once it starts it goes back to the normal feel.
Thank you for all the info!! I will be working down your list this weekend, and paying attention to a few things next time it won't start. I will let you know.
 
Hi CMorris, did you figure out what the issue was? My 2013 Genesis is doing the same thing. Except it is not intermittent. It just won’t start anymore, but all the dash lights come on and I can even use the radio and A/C.
 
Hi CMorris, I'm experiencing the same issues. I can try to start the car and it won't but come back a hour later and it will start! I'm about to change the "Stoplight Switch" but now I'm wondering if it's worth doing. Does anyone know how to remove the panel below the steering wheel to get access to the Stoplight Switch?
 
Thank you for so much info and detail! Of course car has not had the issue in 2 days, but I have never paid attention to the light on the start button! I will also check the starter and solenoid this weekend! I did check most fuses, though not the ones for the PDM, so I will also verify those are good.
My dash gives no messages of problems, lights up just like normal. I don't have the slot for my fob, but have tried using it to push the start button. The first 2 times I push the brake it feels normal, then gets stiff. I assume that is normal since I am pressing it in without the car on. Once it starts it goes back to the normal feel.
Thank you for all the info!! I will be working down your list this weekend, and paying attention to a few things next time it won't start. I will let you know.
Hey bud my Gen is doing something similar, did you end up finding out what it was??
 
Hi CMorris, did you figure out what the issue was? My 2013 Genesis is doing the same thing. Except it is not intermittent. It just won’t start anymore, but all the dash lights come on and I can even use the radio and A/C.
Hey bud my Gen is doing something similar, did you end up finding out what it was?? I’m 1 step away from just towing to dealer but figured I would look here.
 
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