Consumer Reports Quality Report

[Husky]

Interesting article from Jalopnik. They list the car brands that got the highest and lowest quality ratings for 2021. Genesis was mentioned as having dropped the most from 2020 to 2021 (13 places). Too bad. I wonder which model announced for the most quality issues?

 

[KusaKusa]

Here's a screenshot of the G70's reliability page from Consumer Reports. I think a lot of it makes sense from what we've been hearing. Engine troubles could be the 2.0T that Hyundai has tons of issues with. Brakes are from the "warped rotors" from the 3.3TT Brembos. Paint/trim issues can be the Dynamic Edition red recalls they had, or the weird stuff with the dark chrome like found on the G80 Sport. Body integrity can be various roof rattles people have.

 

[MichaelL]

Not good. I was looking to potentially buy a G70 in the Fall when the 2022s come out, now I am not so sure... was hoping they updated the 2 engines but that looks like that won't be the case. Last thing anyone o needs is an unreliable car.

 

[Backslack]

CR's prediction is for new cars. The GV80 and G80 are brand new with new powertrains and platforms with unknown reliability, so of course Genesis took a dive.

Also, the ranking is for overall car brands and isn't based solely on reliability, but 4 other more subjective factors.

Which Brands Make the Best Cars? - Consumer Reports

CR tells you which car brands make the best vehicles based on Overall Score, factoring in average road-test score, reliability, owner satisfaction, and safety.

www.consumerreports.org

Genesis didn't even have enough consumer responses to make the CR predicted reliability assessment from a few months ago.

Consumer Reports: Lexus has most reliable car of 2022, Tesla has 'problems'

Consumer Reports released its annual Auto Reliability Report, showing the most reliable new trucks, SUVs and cars of 2022.

www.usatoday.com

 

[joschneider]

Not good. I was looking to potentially buy a G70 in the Fall when the 2022s come out, now I am not so sure... was hoping they updated the 2 engines but that looks like that won't be the case. Last thing anyone o needs is an unreliable car.

dont be ridiculous, this is a really dumb way to make your car buying decisions

 

[MichaelL]

dont be ridiculous, this is a really dumb way to make your car buying decisions

I said based on this reliability report, I wasn’t sure what I would do.... so, using reliability as a criteria for your next car is dumb? I guess I don’t follow...

 

[joschneider]

I said based on this reliability report, I wasn’t sure what I would do.... so, using reliability as a criteria for your next car is dumb? I guess I don’t follow...

1. Consumer Reports = grain of salt. The people that respond to these tend to treat their cars like appliances. Feel free to read the comments on the Jalopnik article for others to explain this better than I can: Mazda Tops The Charts In Automaker Quality
2. New car = brand new unproven engine. The current drivetrain has been around long enough that most bugs have been worked out. Common sense says brand new tech that has not made it out to the masses will have more issues than something that has been around for a while.
3. If you feel that this reliability data shown above = unreliable current car then you are reading it wrong. You can see this in @Backslack comment above

You are in a forum where of course most people come when they have an issue. Visit any other forum, you will see the same things. But by and large this current car is overall reliable.

Honestly I would never buy a car based on reliability studies unless it was always at or near the bottom of each one. Its like reviews on Amazon. I dont see one bad review and say that Im not going to buy it because it looks bad. I look at an aggregate, ignore the people that didnt review correctly/were mad at something unrelated and decide from there.

 

[huck2021]

CR is just one source and reliability is just one metric. Also, I am not sure how they collect their data, especially for a car with low numbers. You also have to dig into the metrics. Also note that for 2021 models, this is predicted reliability. I am not sure if they've ever checked how often their predictions match with the results.

What I find interesting, is in their own numbers for the 2019 model, they give it a 2/5 for reliability (Ranked 8/8) but a 4/5 in owner satisfaction (Ranked 2/10). The owner satisfaction is based on asking the question, would you buy this car again? 77% said yes. This is one of the most important questions you can ask about any produce or service you sell.

If you look at JD power, you will see a G70 comes 2nd to a Lexus IS in overall rating but actually higher on quality and reliability.

2021 Genesis G70 Ratings, Pricing, Reviews and Awards | J.D. Power

Looking for an ideal 2021 Genesis G70? Start here to discover how much people are paying, what's for sale, trims, specs, and a lot more!

www.jdpower.com

US News puts the G70 #1

https://cars.usnews.com/cars-trucks/rankings/upscale-small-cars

Lastly, how long to you plan on keeping the car? If you plan on keeping it for 10 years, your concerns of reliability may be different than a 3 year lease.

Most new cars, especially Japanese and Korean ones, are very reliable. The only car in recent memory that was a complete disaster was an Alfa Romeo.

I would not say using CR data is dumb, but I certainly would not place too much weight on it.

You need to look for a consensus across various outlets.

 

[jetrep]

I like consumer reports and I think they do the best they can with these assessments but when you start digging into them you find flaws. For example there can be a car that is identical for multiple model years but show good reliabilty for one or some of those years but bad for others. If you check history you can also see a vehicle listed as poor one year then the same one as good the next year (or vice versa). This is based on how people reported things that year. With a vehicle that's low volume like the G70 I can see just a couple bad experiences drastically altering the outcomes.

 

[Husky]

Here's a screenshot of the G70's reliability page from Consumer Reports. I think a lot of it makes sense from what we've been hearing. Engine troubles could be the 2.0T that Hyundai has tons of issues with. Brakes are from the "warped rotors" from the 3.3TT Brembos. Paint/trim issues can be the Dynamic Edition red recalls they had, or the weird stuff with the dark chrome like found on the G80 Sport. Body integrity can be various roof rattles people have.

View attachment 34633

I agree, the brake vibration issue (due to crappy pads on most models) is probably responsible for much of the negative feedback (it was in my case, when I took the CR survey). Too bad, it could have easily been avoided if Genesis had simply put the "Euro" (i.e. decent) pads on all models, since the rest of the brake hardware seems very good. They must have used the better pads for all their development testing at The 'Ring. Some bean counter must have decided that most of us didn't need that, even on the Sport models. Stupid.

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[jetrep]

Here's the other problem I have with their report. BMW shot up in one year from it's ranking of 8 to 2. Does that seem a little absurd to anyone? Stuff like this suggests there are some flaws in their system. I'm not against BMW in fact I'm quite fond of them...older ones in particular. But what could they have done in the last 12 months to justify this massive change in rank? Honda's rank went from 15 to 5. Chrysler went from 18 to 8.

 

[huck2021]

I've had issues with CR reviews with other products. I suspect their lab testing ( and road testing) do not always simulate real world use or capture a very limited experience.

However, their car reliability survey has some serious shortcomings that you should understand before using their ratings.

What is Reliability (according to CR)?

CR's reliability ratings are based on surveys -- not on actual repair data. They simply ask owners about issues in various categories and ask them if they are "serious" or not. Notably, serious is never defined.

Consider two drivers:
BMW 3 Series owner that operates a car pool to work. He has a pre-mature spark plug failure that causes the CEL to come on and needs service. This causes a major disruption to him and the carpool. He considers this a serious issue.

G70 owner that goes for spirited back road drives on weekend. He has a pre-mature spark plug failure that causes the CEL to come on and needs services. This is no big deal, it is just a spark plug and he takes it in for service.

Now CR will ask, have you had a serious minor engine repair in the last 12 months?

BMW Owner: Yes
G70 Owner: No

Conclusion, G70 is more reliable.

Here's another example.

Owner A:
Ford Focus owner takes care in for an oil change. The mechanic notices a small leak from a radiator hose and fixes. This takes a few extra minutes but the owner is soon on his way.

Owner B:
Ford Focus owner see a small water puddle on the garage floor. He takes the car into to be repaired. They fix the same problem that owner A had. The owner is annoyed as this is a 2 year old car and should not have a leak.

Owner A: No serious issues (probably even forgot about the radiator issue).
Owner B: Serious minor engine repair.

As you can see, CR's reliability ratings are subjective.

CR's hope is that by surveying enough people they can normalize these responses, but someone who buys a Toyota Lexus has different expectations about reliability than someone who buys a Cadillac.

I've not dug into their methods, but RepairPal also publishes reliability data. Their data is based on actual repairs (I am not sure if this is just estimates or actual work), but at least the method works on repair data not ones subjective opinion of a repair.

Interestingly, RepairPal has all Asian brands at the top of their list. Kia and Hyundai are ranked 3 & 4, respectively with a very small difference in repair costs (~1%) . CR gives Kia a 45 score and Hyundai a 62 score a 27% difference in scores. Unless the brand difference is due to a specific Kia model pulling things down, I find such a large difference given that many of their most popular cars share some of the same engineering.

 

[Bill in Alexandria]

There's also something called "survey bias" which is REALLY hard to correct. When everything is going well with your vehicle, you don't "have time" for the silly survey, but if you experienced several mechanical issues over the last year, you ABSOLUTELY will take the time to vent on paper. Obviously, survey developers use "psychometrics" to keep it as neutral as possible, but surveys are basically tools. A REAL measure would be data directly from service stations and dealerships on maintaining the various makes & models (similar to the World Health Organization collecting ICD (international classification of disease) data) but it still won't capture the work done in people's back yards.

 

[Boethius42]

Here's a screenshot of the G70's reliability page from Consumer Reports. I think a lot of it makes sense from what we've been hearing. Engine troubles could be the 2.0T that Hyundai has tons of issues with. Brakes are from the "warped rotors" from the 3.3TT Brembos. Paint/trim issues can be the Dynamic Edition red recalls they had, or the weird stuff with the dark chrome like found on the G80 Sport. Body integrity can be various roof rattles people have.

View attachment 34633

Yep, I have a roof rattle! It is right under my sun visor, towards the left side where the contours of the ceiling meet the plastic with the sun roof controls. Drives me crazy! I will have Genesis look at it during the car's next service (now that I know where the rattle is).

 

[Husky]

Good luck

 

[jailer]

 

[[NOBODY]]

Yep, I have a roof rattle! It is right under my sun visor, towards the left side where the contours of the ceiling meet the plastic with the sun roof controls. Drives me crazy! I will have Genesis look at it during the car's next service (now that I know where the rattle is).

I subscribe to CR, and I find the ratings to be the most realistic and unbiased view of any given vehicle, IMO. ANything they have ever said or noted about any of the cars I have owned has been true. Especially this one. I really like this car, but it has had more than its fair share of issues. More than my first year GTI, more than my Dodge, but not more than my GM product. Sorry GM.

 

[MichaelL]

I subscribe to CR, and I find the ratings to be the most realistic and unbiased view of any given vehicle, IMO. ANything they have ever said or noted about any of the cars I have owned has been true. Especially this one. I really like this car, but it has had more than its fair share of issues. More than my first year GTI, more than my Dodge, but not more than my GM product. Sorry GM.

I agree. The ratings aren't perfect, none of them are, CR, JD Power, etc, but what other sources are out there that are better? It is a great way to get a general idea about a specific car or brand. Even as far as showing that the first year of a model tends to have more issues than subsequent years.

 

[tarhoosier]

Other sources? I used this site to test for quality of the G70 prior to purchase. I think many sites such as this one provide that opportunity for potential buyers. The owner experience is real and personal and unfiltered. An experienced reader can discount those few posts that are rants and unrealistic. The rest provide a distilled opinion of hundreds of drivers. I chose that as more authoritative than the CR review when I bought my G70. Though the CR review was generally positive and the negatives were issues less important to me. The full review was posted here by someone, text and all.

 

[[NOBODY]]

Other sources? I used this site to test for quality of the G70 prior to purchase. I think many sites such as this one provide that opportunity for potential buyers. The owner experience is real and personal and unfiltered. An experienced reader can discount those few posts that are rants and unrealistic. The rest provide a distilled opinion of hundreds of drivers. I chose that as more authoritative than the CR review when I bought my G70. Though the CR review was generally positive and the negatives were issues less important to me. The full review was posted here by someone, text and all.

There is also TrueDelta, based on user surveys, and the person who runs it is a statistician with a doctorate, so you could imagine they know what they are doing, and I have them to be kind of accurate? If you look, you'll see that their results generally tend to correlate with CR, so that's a good sign that they are both on the right track - when they have enough data.

JDpower is complete BS, though. They are an industry tool, designed to drive business and act as marketing.

Repair data is literally impossible to get as a direct measure. That would require a network of databases/data from hundreds of different parent sources, all of which could be considered to be in direct competition to each other (in one form or another) and that data would be proprietary as hell.

However, back in my youth I worked for RP Alpha group, which is a large advertising and marketing agency out of California, and our largest account was American Honda. While we performed tons of original research with dealers, customers, potential customers, etc.. there was also lots of industry-specific aggregate data for the industry and for marketing - Allison-Fischer, folks like that. Everything under the sun was available for us to use, every bit of demographic, descriptive, reporting, federal, state, foreign, - everything. Everything, except repair or actual quality of product data. That just doesn't exist outside of the organizations that own it, and /or choose to share it.

So the absolute only reasonable way for anyone to get data (as far as I am aware, perhaps something has changed since I was in the business) on vehicle quality, perception, etc., is to perform surveys and ask people. It's not hard, there are many ways to do it. If you ask enough people the same questions, you can be pretty assured that results are accurate. Statistics is branch of mathematics and as such is objective and by definition unbiased. Poor data is easily identified and removed. Results and data go through many, many tests, and are generally accurate. Businesses, governments, militaries and police use these methods every day to make life and death decisions. So it's good enough for the us military, but not for the average car guy just wanting to see if that 2-year old M3 he is thinking of buying will more likely than not shit the bed in some way before ownership is out? Additionally, these kinds of stats just give likelihood of x or y, sometimes more, sometimes less, but it's never 'oh yes, for sure', or 'oh my gosh, never.'

I think it's more like people generally don't want how they *feel* about something contradicted by the results of a process they possibly don't understand and are suspicious of. Especially today. People are told by advertisers, businesses and politicians, facebook buddies, dudes at the bar, how they 'feel' is the most important thing, and that data, results, accurate predictions, accurate warnings are all somebody wanting to control them, or lies to prevent them from doing what they 'feel' which of course, must be correct because it's how they 'feel.' Which to me, is sort of like the Brawndo argument, which sort of sums up today's world anyway.