GV60 Canadian Pricing Estimations

[fredf]

My Dealer just informed me that I should have a VIN by the end of this week. Said they received email stating production is starting. Hopefully I’ll have a vin and delivery date soon. They also figure my estimate of low 70’s would be low on the Performance Model. And….. one more ‘punch in the gut’ but of information is that the GV60 will NOT qualify for federal or provincial EV rebate money. I was anticipating a $7,500 rebate that’s not out the window. How ridiculous is that??? Government considers it a luxury vehicle as pricing is over $60,000.

It qualifies for the federal rebate (I believe) if the base model is under $60 k ( if the limit is raised to $60k as many believe).
So if your dealer is correct that would mean the Advanced would have to come in over $60k.
I was hoping for $59999 for Advanced and $70k for Performance which would make it come in at $65k in Ontario, after rebate. And with the included freight/pdi it would feel more like $63k which is a number closer to what I am prepared to pay.

 

[ohnoyuji]

My Dealer just informed me that I should have a VIN by the end of this week. Said they received email stating production is starting. Hopefully I’ll have a vin and delivery date soon. They also figure my estimate of low 70’s would be low on the Performance Model. And….. one more ‘punch in the gut’ but of information is that the GV60 will NOT qualify for federal or provincial EV rebate money. I was anticipating a $7,500 rebate that’s not out the window. How ridiculous is that??? Government considers it a luxury vehicle as pricing is over $60,000.

Trudeau is trying to get more people onto EV, however, Genesis isn't. They are trying to sell cars.
Hyundai/Kia has Ioniq5, Kona EV, Niro EV, EV6, so, it's not a must for Genesis to lowered their profit to lure more buyers.
Hyundai aren't stupid, with limited capacity of the same production plant, obvious its good to prioritize GV60 over ioniq/Ev6.
Hyundai/Kia has stop taking reservation since, their order are now backlog into 2+year wait.
Hyundai/Kia can drop GV60 and other EV, and take more ioniq/EV6 order, why they don't?
Because their consortium, needs to diversify/
Genesis is a premium brand, there's no need to priced lowered to eat into their margin.
I see how other brand (BMW, volvo, mercedes) has no intention to sell more and lowered price to lure traditional ICE customer.
Its more a requirement of the CAF carbon footprint by 2035 (only if the consummer embrace this). This is always subject to change

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However, i would argue, Genesis has to compete with other brand, Polestar 2, XC40, their starting price is at 54999.
I would consider to change the eligibility base on battery size, not cost.
Anyone can afford a 60000+$ car, is also looking at the car's ability and reason to switch into EV versus similar priced ICE car.
Trudeau doesn't prove this is the case, and is not encourage people that can afford 60000$+ to switch.
IMO, they should be based on battery size.

 

[ohnoyuji]

It qualifies for the federal rebate (I believe) if the base model is under $60 k ( if the limit is raised to $60k as many believe).
So if your dealer is correct that would mean the Advanced would have to come in over $60k.
I was hoping for $59999 for Advanced and $70k for Performance which would make it come in at $65k in Ontario, after rebate. And with the included freight/pdi it would feel more like $63k which is a number closer to what I am prepared to pay.

Fed's iZEV is limited to 44999$ if base price and upto 55000$ of the same car with higher trim. (-5000$)
In Quebec, the Roulez vert has (-7000$:down from 8000) if car cost MSRP is 59999$ or below.

 

[NLJ]

My Dealer just informed me that I should have a VIN by the end of this week. Said they received email stating production is starting. Hopefully I’ll have a vin and delivery date soon. They also figure my estimate of low 70’s would be low on the Performance Model. And….. one more ‘punch in the gut’ but of information is that the GV60 will NOT qualify for federal or provincial EV rebate money. I was anticipating a $7,500 rebate that’s not out the window. How ridiculous is that??? Government considers it a luxury vehicle as pricing is over $60,000.

Did the Feds release the new rebate numbers?

 

[Minbari]

Did the Feds release the new rebate numbers?

They haven’t yet- speculation is that changes will be announced soon(ish). I don’t believe that the rebate will have any impact on the GV60 whatsoever. It wasn’t going to qualify for federal rebates under the current program, and as a 5-seater luxury vehicle it’s unlikely to be included after the changes either. The likely pricing $60k+ by all accounts also keeps it almost certainly out of reach of those same rebates. On a provincial level that will be a different story for some people though, but almost certainly we won’t be able to take advantage of the federal iZEV program.

 

[fredf]

Fed's iZEV is limited to 44999$ if base price and upto 55000$ of the same car with higher trim. (-5000$)
In Quebec, the Roulez vert has (-7000$:down from 8000) if car cost MSRP is 59999$ or below.

That’s the current rebate rules. I was quoting what many people think is likely to be the new criteria
Also, if the GV. 60 is classified as an SUV that would raise the allowable price

 

[ohnoyuji]

That’s the current rebate rules. I was quoting what many people think is likely to be the new criteria
Also, if the GV. 60 is classified as an SUV that would raise the allowable price

What makes an SUV special than cars might I ask?
The iZev program was meant for mobility, car or SUV under 6 people capacity share the same rebate.
The iZev rule has provision of 6+ passenger car means minivan, upto a higher eligibility.
Don't speculating or rumor, it's your opinion. Not "many" people think it will be.
Ok, let's see how Trudeau will tell tell this week.

 

[Minbari]

What makes an SUV special than cars might I ask?
The iZev program was meant for mobility, car or SUV under 6 people capacity share the same rebate.
The iZev rule has provision of 6+ passenger car means minivan, upto a higher eligibility.
Don't speculating or rumor, it's your opinion. Not "many" people think it will be.
Ok, let's see how Trudeau will tell tell this week.

Sure everything until it’s official is a rumour, but there’s been a lot of speculation that “SUV” class vehicles (6+ Seats) would be categorized separately but I don’t believe there is any provision for 5 passenger SUV’s (like the GV60) to be treated any differently than a “car” would.

I would legitimately be shocked if the GV60 were eligible for any rebates, or if the price ceiling for 5 passenger vehicles was raised to be iZEV eligible. At the end of the day that would go against what the whole concept of the program has been- to lower the cost of entry to incentivize purchase on the low and make them attainable. For fair enough reason, the more expensive “luxury” EV products don’t quality because it wasn’t a matter of affording an EV at all or not, that’s a more frivolous purchase for people who want a better quality/luxury vehicle over an entry level one.

 

[Jeffrey83]

My Dealer just informed me that I should have a VIN by the end of this week. Said they received email stating production is starting. Hopefully I’ll have a vin and delivery date soon. They also figure my estimate of low 70’s would be low on the Performance Model. And….. one more ‘punch in the gut’ but of information is that the GV60 will NOT qualify for federal or provincial EV rebate money. I was anticipating a $7,500 rebate that’s not out the window. How ridiculous is that??? Government considers it a luxury vehicle as pricing is over $60,000.

There are so many assumptions built into this statement. First pricing hasn’t been released yet so the dealers thought on what it could be is still speculation.

Second the government hasn’t released what changes are planned for the izev rebate and what levels will be introduced. However any salesman will tell you there is no rebate because currently it will not qualify under the program. Regardless of what changes “might” be coming, way better to call you in 2 weeks and say great news Genesis has released pricing and the government has changed their rebate requirements and we have just dropped your price by X amount of dollars, opposed to promising you something and then having to tell you it’s x $’s more expensive.

Finally since rebates haven’t been announced nothing could stop genesis from making the single motor rwd model “available” in Canada to drop the price in order to qualify. No they don’t have to make it affordable for everyone but let’s say they target a price of $65 for the advanced. And $60 for the rebate. If RWD is $60, and gets a 5k rebate all of a sudden Genesis can charge $68 for the advanced, make an extra 3k and save the customer 2k. I also wouldn’t be surprised to see them separate freight and PDI on the GV60 to “lower” the price to ensure qualification for any and all models, again not to benefit the customer but to increase the price they can sell it for while keeping the customer price the same or slightly lower.

 

[upa]

There are so many assumptions built into this statement. First pricing hasn’t been released yet so the dealers thought on what it could be is still speculation.

Second the government hasn’t released what changes are planned for the izev rebate and what levels will be introduced. However any salesman will tell you there is no rebate because currently it will not qualify under the program. Regardless of what changes “might” be coming, way better to call you in 2 weeks and say great news Genesis has released pricing and the government has changed their rebate requirements and we have just dropped your price by X amount of dollars, opposed to promising you something and then having to tell you it’s x $’s more expensive.

Finally since rebates haven’t been announced nothing could stop genesis from making the single motor rwd model “available” in Canada to drop the price in order to qualify. No they don’t have to make it affordable for everyone but let’s say they target a price of $65 for the advanced. And $60 for the rebate. If RWD is $60, and gets a 5k rebate all of a sudden Genesis can charge $68 for the advanced, make an extra 3k and save the customer 2k. I also wouldn’t be surprised to see them separate freight and PDI on the GV60 to “lower” the price to ensure qualification for any and all models, again not to benefit the customer but to increase the price they can sell it for while keeping the customer price the same or slightly lower.

I think your spot on. I strongly suspect Genesis will get financially creative to take advantage of the iZEV program. I would be really surprised if they didn't.

I have to remind folks that there is another potential alternative to the 5K incentive. If you own a business you can take advantage of capital cost allowance for EVs deduction. You can 100% deduct(against income) the cost of the EV up to $55K plus GST/PST minus personal use. The big advantage over the personal incentive is that there are no price limit eligibility criteria, or limits otherwise, i.e. Model S plaid is cool.

You can only claim the CCA or federal personal 5K , not both. I declined the personal federal rebate at point of sale when I got my Kona EV 2.5 years and instead of taking the federal 5K discount upfront I got 15K back on my income taxes.

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[NoTeslaforMe]

I think your spot on. I strongly suspect Genesis will get financially creative to take advantage of the iZEV program. I would be really surprised if they didn't.

I have to remind folks that there is another potential alternative to the 5K incentive. If you own a business you can take advantage of capital cost allowance for EVs deduction. You can 100% deduct(against income) the cost of the EV up to $55K plus GST/PST minus personal use. The big advantage over the personal incentive is that there are no price limit eligibility criteria, or limits otherwise, i.e. Model S plaid is cool.

You can only claim the CCA or federal personal 5K , not both. I declined the personal federal rebate at point of sale when I got my Kona EV 2.5 years and instead of taking the federal 5K discount upfront I got 15K back on my income taxes.

Interesting, are luxury EVs eligible as well? And would you know if it's only on leased or finance vehicles as well?

 

[goldentoque]

Don't speculating or rumor, it's your opinion. Not "many" people think it will be.

isnt that just what you did, based upon your guesses about how Hyundai/Kia/EV6 view their brands and their production ability/profitability? ;-)

 

[goldentoque]

Sure everything until it’s official is a rumour, but there’s been a lot of speculation that “SUV” class vehicles (6+ Seats) would be categorized separately but I don’t believe there is any provision for 5 passenger SUV’s (like the GV60) to be treated any differently than a “car” would.

I would legitimately be shocked if the GV60 were eligible for any rebates, or if the price ceiling for 5 passenger vehicles was raised to be iZEV eligible. At the end of the day that would go against what the whole concept of the program has been- to lower the cost of entry to incentivize purchase on the low and make them attainable. For fair enough reason, the more expensive “luxury” EV products don’t quality because it wasn’t a matter of affording an EV at all or not, that’s a more frivolous purchase for people who want a better quality/luxury vehicle over an entry level one.

Thing to remember is that these incentives started at a time when the vast majority of vehicles that qualified were hybrid vehicles, which compared to their ice counterparts, were a greatly inflated price.

The speculation on SUVs being added to an expanded category that would include trucks would be to specifically allow for a higher priced entry point. With the vast majority of EVs being introduced being SUVs to give North Americans big enough batteries to reduce their range anxiety, increasing the incentive to include these will definitely speed up adoption. There is also the argument that the rebate is not just for reducing the cost, and making EVs more accessible, but also to speed adoption, reduce reliance on fossil fuels and try to effect climate change.

Look at Mazda, VW, Ford etc... dramatically reducing or eliminating the number of small cars and sedans they sell, because no one wants them... Thinking about these programs has to change from their inception.

 

[fredf]

I think your spot on. I strongly suspect Genesis will get financially creative to take advantage of the iZEV program. I would be really surprised if they didn't.

I have to remind folks that there is another potential alternative to the 5K incentive. If you own a business you can take advantage of capital cost allowance for EVs deduction. You can 100% deduct(against income) the cost of the EV up to $55K plus GST/PST minus personal use. The big advantage over the personal incentive is that there are no price limit eligibility criteria, or limits otherwise, i.e. Model S plaid is cool.

You can only claim the CCA or federal personal 5K , not both. I declined the personal federal rebate at point of sale when I got my Kona EV 2.5 years and instead of taking the federal 5K discount upfront I got 15K back on my income taxes.

I write off a portion of my car for work right now. I guess that’s the CCA you refer to.
If I buy a GV60 are you saying that I can write off a potion of the purchase price of the GV60 (I will pay cash) as a CCA up to $55k and simply do that and forget about the rebate?
And is that different because it’s totally electric (ie: a BEV) or the same as any car?

 

[gitSehT]

I write off a portion of my car for work right now. I guess that’s the CCA you refer to.
If I buy a GV60 are you saying that I can write off a potion of the purchase price of the GV60 (I will pay cash) as a CCA up to $55k and simply do that and forget about the rebate?
And is that different because it’s totally electric (ie: a BEV) or the same as any car?

This video breaks down the business tax credits vs rebates

 

[goldentoque]

I write off a portion of my car for work right now. I guess that’s the CCA you refer to.
If I buy a GV60 are you saying that I can write off a potion of the purchase price of the GV60 (I will pay cash) as a CCA up to $55k and simply do that and forget about the rebate?
And is that different because it’s totally electric (ie: a BEV) or the same as any car?

I am not an accountant... so may not have this 100% correct, but...

Typically with any depreciating Capital Expense, you can deduct from your earnings a percentage of the total cost, over the expected life of the expense.

Each type of expense has a different percentage you can write off, whether its a computer, a desk, or a vehicle.

Passenger Vehicles fall into a certain grouping (called classes) which you can write off a maximum of 30% of the value in a year. But there is also the half-year rule which applies, which says that in the year you acquire the item, you can only write off 50% of the typical allowance. In this case 15%.

For Passenger EVs for the next couple of years you can write off 100% of the expense in the first year, and there is no half year rule... as stated above there is a maximum value you can write off, currently $55,000 no matter how much the vehicle costs.

If you take the current $5K EV credit you are not eligible for the 100% write-off, but you are still able to write it off according the traditional Capital Cost Allowance rules. So my assumption would be that if you intend to keep using the vehicle for business for a long time, taking the $5K upfront, and writing it off on a yearly basis, you could come out ahead. But each person's circumstances are different.

Additionally, when you dispose of the vehicle, there are also implications against these CCA writeoffs, so its probably best to talk to someone who can run through the various scenarios with you to make sure you are making the right choice.

 

[fredf]

I am not an accountant... so may not have this 100% correct, but...

Typically with any depreciating Capital Expense, you can deduct from your earnings a percentage of the total cost, over the expected life of the expense.

Each type of expense has a different percentage you can write off, whether its a computer, a desk, or a vehicle.

Passenger Vehicles fall into a certain grouping (called classes) which you can write off a maximum of 30% of the value in a year. But there is also the half-year rule which applies, which says that in the year you acquire the item, you can only write off 50% of the typical allowance. In this case 15%.

For Passenger EVs for the next couple of years you can write off 100% of the expense in the first year, and there is no half year rule... as stated above there is a maximum value you can write off, currently $55,000 no matter how much the vehicle costs.

If you take the current $5K EV credit you are not eligible for the 100% write-off, but you are still able to write it off according the traditional Capital Cost Allowance rules. So my assumption would be that if you intend to keep using the vehicle for business for a long time, taking the $5K upfront, and writing it off on a yearly basis, you could come out ahead. But each person's circumstances are different.

Additionally, when you dispose of the vehicle, there are also implications against these CCA writeoffs, so its probably best to talk to someone who can run through the various scenarios with you to make sure you are making the right choice.

Thats a great reply. Thanks!!

 

[fredf]

This video breaks down the business tax credits vs rebates

A
also excellent

 

[MovingOn]

I think your spot on. I strongly suspect Genesis will get financially creative to take advantage of the iZEV program. I would be really surprised if they didn't.

I have to remind folks that there is another potential alternative to the 5K incentive. If you own a business you can take advantage of capital cost allowance for EVs deduction. You can 100% deduct(against income) the cost of the EV up to $55K plus GST/PST minus personal use. The big advantage over the personal incentive is that there are no price limit eligibility criteria, or limits otherwise, i.e. Model S plaid is cool.

You can only claim the CCA or federal personal 5K , not both. I declined the personal federal rebate at point of sale when I got my Kona EV 2.5 years and instead of taking the federal 5K discount upfront I got 15K back on my income taxes.

I was thinking about buying through my corp. This is a great option for those who use the car mostly for business. Not only can you get the CCA, but if you drive more than 50% business KM, you can claim part of the GST back.

But for those who do not drive a lot of business KM, it might not work out. You have to take a taxable benefit for the personal use portion of your KM. Assume 12% corp tax rate, you'd save around $6,600 in tax from CCA year one. Then suppose you drive 15K personal KM, you would have to add about $7,500 of income to your personal return each year. Assume 40% personal tax rate ($3K personal tax per year) and your CCA savings don't get you too far.

Further, when you sell that car, you could have recapture. If you bought the car for $80 and wrote off $55 that means your tax value is $25K. If you sell for more than that, the difference is taxable income (not a capital gain). For me, the kicker is that I am planning on selling my business in a couple of years and the recapture would kill my savings, so I will buy personally.

 

[Cris X]

Kia now has a full Build & Price on their site for the EV6. GT-Line pkg. 2 is $63K tax-in. This is a very realistic alternative.

I've been reading different threads here including the one on putting down a deposit for a pre-order. I have placed the pre-order for a GV60 Performance last month and was advised by the dealer that we (Canadians) should have pricing info around end of March, with test drive possibly around mid- to end of April. I'm starting to wonder why the delay in getting things confirmed. I agree with Looney100 that the EV6 GT Line pkg2 is a great alternative, with potentially a big $avings - don't forget the $5,000 Federal incentive that the EV6 qualifies. It will make the price difference even bigger. I'm also keeping my eyes on Nissan's Ariya. It may not have the 800 volt system but from a features point of view, it ticks almost every box. BTW, if I plan on charging the vehicle at home using a level 2 charger (99% of the time anyway), will the 800 volt system make a difference?