Tale of two car companies...Lexus and Genesis

[Dannocron]

Keeping this as short as possible...

Bought a new Lexus LS430 in 2004.

Developed a small "sound" in the sunroof area. Took it to the dealer three times in the first year of ownership. (This was not terrible, in fact very minor, but, at the time, I figured paying that kind of money for the car, I expected "perfection"!) Dealer could hear the "sound". First and second time's taking it for repair, the same sound kept coming back. The third time in for repair, they replaced the whole sunroof mechanism. Unbelievabley, the "sound" was still there.

I wrote a letter to Lexus. Within a week, I got a call from Lexus, and all they said was "what color do you want?". They offered and replaced the car with a brand new (2006) LS430!

Kept that car until I purchased a new 2017 Genesis G90.

Car itself is great, but customer service is another story...

Car currently has 43000 miles. Late last summer, the check engine light comes on. Take it to the dealer to diagnose. Had to wait 6 weeks before they had a loaner car, to diagnose (at the dealer, after 4 days, they diagnose the problem stating it needs a new thermostat). When I first took it in and had scheduled for a loaner car, I had also heard about the update for the infotainment head unit needing an update to get it working again, and printed out the "TSB" pointing out the procedure for getting the "USB" stick and procedure to repair. (They had gotten the required files on "USB" from Genesis, but did not follow the directions on how to update it. When the service person walked away, I did the update myself, which took all of 4 or 5 minutes.)

Anyway, they call me a week later to schedule the replacement of the thermostat. I asked about a loaner car, and they said there were many people in line before me and they didn't know when one would be available. (I told them to let me know when one would be available as I had no idea how long the repair would take. They said they would do that.) In the mean time, while waiting for the thermostat repair, the oil pressure light is now intermittently coming on. (In looking through these forums, apparently the oil pressure sensor has a tendency to go bad and needs to be replaced. It sounds like in Korea, they have issued a recall for this issue, but not here in the US.)

Anyway, after waiting from the middle of October until the middle of January, I finally get a call that a loaner car is available.

I take the car for the repairs last week. First thing they tell me is it will be $1100.00 to replace the thermostat. Second thing they tell me is they now CHARGE $45.00 PER DAY FOR LOANER CARS. (I was getting hot and almost exploded. Told the head of service that that was ridiculous and that, from the beginning, one of Genesis offerings was to give a loaner car while in for service.) They did relent, this time, but said I would have to pay for a loaner car in the future.

So, heard from the dealer a few days ago. They diagnosed the oil light coming on to be a replacement of the the oil sensor switch and harness to the tune of $1800.00.

So, all in all, after waiting many months to get a loaner car and almost $3000.00 later, along with being told they will now charge $45.00 per day for a loaner car, I think I have learned my lesson.

(The Genesis dealer tells me they have 17 loaner cars available to use. I stopped by the Lexus dealer to look at new cars there. Asked them how many loaner cars they have...they have 52!)

It is time to leave Genesis in the dust and return to a company that wants my business and knows how to treat a customer. Goodbye Genesis and hello Lexus!

 

[XXX]

As a former Lexus driver (5 of them), I too was disillusioned with the Genesis service, or lack there of. It took all day to get an oil change last year. That's because there are few actual Genesis dealers. These Hyundai shops have one Genesis tech who works mainly on Hyundai. Had I known this, I may have gone in a different direction. So, my hope is that these Genesis dealers get their builds going soon (we have two coming up). Then I can give them a true test. Also, as I did with my Lexus vehicles, I took an extended warranty (through the Lexus business office) for this Genesis.

As for going back to Lexus, at this time, I do not like the LS500 and it does not, IMPO, compare to the newer Genesis. I saw a 500 yesterday and I don't like the design nor do I care for the interior. But, it doesn't matter what I like or dislike, it's what you can tolerate. The Lexus service, is by far the standard to which Genesis needs to lean towards. Then the Genesis would be a great product.

I wish you well. Good luck.

 

[steveinarizona]

Keeping this as short as possible...

Bought a new Lexus LS430 in 2004.

Developed a small "sound" in the sunroof area. Took it to the dealer three times in the first year of ownership. (This was not terrible, in fact very minor, but, at the time, I figured paying that kind of money for the car, I expected "perfection"!) Dealer could hear the "sound". First and second time's taking it for repair, the same sound kept coming back. The third time in for repair, they replaced the whole sunroof mechanism. Unbelievabley, the "sound" was still there.

I wrote a letter to Lexus. Within a week, I got a call from Lexus, and all they said was "what color do you want?". They offered and replaced the car with a brand new (2006) LS430!

Kept that car until I purchased a new 2017 Genesis G90.

Car itself is great, but customer service is another story...

Car currently has 43000 miles. Late last summer, the check engine light comes on. Take it to the dealer to diagnose. Had to wait 6 weeks before they had a loaner car, to diagnose (at the dealer, after 4 days, they diagnose the problem stating it needs a new thermostat). When I first took it in and had scheduled for a loaner car, I had also heard about the update for the infotainment head unit needing an update to get it working again, and printed out the "TSB" pointing out the procedure for getting the "USB" stick and procedure to repair. (They had gotten the required files on "USB" from Genesis, but did not follow the directions on how to update it. When the service person walked away, I did the update myself, which took all of 4 or 5 minutes.)

Anyway, they call me a week later to schedule the replacement of the thermostat. I asked about a loaner car, and they said there were many people in line before me and they didn't know when one would be available. (I told them to let me know when one would be available as I had no idea how long the repair would take. They said they would do that.) In the mean time, while waiting for the thermostat repair, the oil pressure light is now intermittently coming on. (In looking through these forums, apparently the oil pressure sensor has a tendency to go bad and needs to be replaced. It sounds like in Korea, they have issued a recall for this issue, but not here in the US.)

Anyway, after waiting from the middle of October until the middle of January, I finally get a call that a loaner car is available.

I take the car for the repairs last week. First thing they tell me is it will be $1100.00 to replace the thermostat. Second thing they tell me is they now CHARGE $45.00 PER DAY FOR LOANER CARS. (I was getting hot and almost exploded. Told the head of service that that was ridiculous and that, from the beginning, one of Genesis offerings was to give a loaner car while in for service.) They did relent, this time, but said I would have to pay for a loaner car in the future.

So, heard from the dealer a few days ago. They diagnosed the oil light coming on to be a replacement of the the oil sensor switch and harness to the tune of $1800.00.

So, all in all, after waiting many months to get a loaner car and almost $3000.00 later, along with being told they will now charge $45.00 per day for a loaner car, I think I have learned my lesson.

(The Genesis dealer tells me they have 17 loaner cars available to use. I stopped by the Lexus dealer to look at new cars there. Asked them how many loaner cars they have...they have 52!)

It is time to leave Genesis in the dust and return to a company that wants my business and knows how to treat a customer. Goodbye Genesis and hello Lexus!

One thing that drives me nuts about this forum is the lack of a geographic indicator on the users' filings (not the OP's fault). OP: where are you located and who is this dealer who is denying you the service treatment promised by Genesis? This is a terrible story. Have you tried reaching out to the dealership general manager? What about Genesis customer care?

So far my dealer, Genesis of Scottsdale, has been good but if it did what your dealer did, I would be back with one of the Penske luxury dealerships a few miles away. Life is too short to put up with this nonsense.

Do you have a choice of dealerships?

BTW: a simple comparison of dealer loaner counts doesn't prove much without knowing sales volume. The Lexus dealership has roughly 3 times the number of loaners. Does it have roughly 3 times the sales volume?

 

[Dannocron]

One thing that drives me nuts about this forum is the lack of a geographic indicator on the users' filings (not the OP's fault). OP: where are you located and who is this dealer who is denying you the service treatment promised by Genesis? This is a terrible story. Have you tried reaching out to the dealership general manager? What about Genesis customer care?

So far my dealer, Genesis of Scottsdale, has been good but if it did what your dealer did, I would be back with one of the Penske luxury dealerships a few miles away. Life is too short to put up with this nonsense.

Do you have a choice of dealerships?

BTW: a simple comparison of dealer loaner counts doesn't prove much without knowing sales volume. The Lexus dealership has roughly 3 times the number of loaners. Does it have roughly 3 times the sales volume?

Thanks for the reply.

First of all, I am in Cincinnati, OH. There is only one Genesis dealer in this area, per the Genesis web site unless I am willing to drive 100 miles or more. (Genesis of Montgomery)

I am going to pick up the G90 today and plan on talking with the general manager. I have not reached out to Genesis customer care, although the one time I did that in the past, they were of no help AT ALL (after talking with them over a period of months).

This dealer is in the process of building a dedicated dealership that is supposed to open later this year, which, I suppose, could help this situation.

I have no idea what the sales volumes are between the Genesis and Lexus dealerships, but having to wait over 4 months to get a loaner car seems to tell the story. As it turns out, both of the issues I had this time did not affect the drivability. The big fear I have is that a time will come when the something serious happens to the car and it cannot be driven and the dealer says to me it will be 4 months before we can get you a loaner car (and you are going to RENT the loaner car from us). So sorry

As you said, "life is too short to put up with this nonsense". I probably will not keep this car much longer. I had no plans to purchase a new car, but this really scares me.

Regarding purchasing a new Lexus, I too don't really care for the LS500. (don't like the firm ride...although the looks have grown on me) The interesting thing is, comfort has been my overriding reason for picking out the last 2 cars. While I am still interested in that, an issue I have with the G90 is that it is really LONG. I notice that I have trouble pulling in to a parking spot straight without having to maneuver a couple times (yep...I am getting old!). So comfort may not be the overriding factor (as much). I looked at the RX350h or possibly the RX450h plug in hybrid (for practical purposes) along with the ES300 or ES350. None offer the comfort I am used to or would like. However, any of those choices, in my mind, are good.

Based on what Lexus did for me when they GAVE me a new car to replace one with a sunroof issue, I should have NEVER gone away from Lexus

 

[steveinarizona]

Thanks for the reply.

First of all, I am in Cincinnati, OH. There is only one Genesis dealer in this area, per the Genesis web site unless I am willing to drive 100 miles or more. (Genesis of Montgomery)

I am going to pick up the G90 today and plan on talking with the general manager. I have not reached out to Genesis customer care, although the one time I did that in the past, they were of no help AT ALL (after talking with them over a period of months).

This dealer is in the process of building a dedicated dealership that is supposed to open later this year, which, I suppose, could help this situation.

I have no idea what the sales volumes are between the Genesis and Lexus dealerships, but having to wait over 4 months to get a loaner car seems to tell the story. As it turns out, both of the issues I had this time did not affect the drivability. The big fear I have is that a time will come when the something serious happens to the car and it cannot be driven and the dealer says to me it will be 4 months before we can get you a loaner car (and you are going to RENT the loaner car from us). So sorry

As you said, "life is too short to put up with this nonsense". I probably will not keep this car much longer. I had no plans to purchase a new car, but this really scares me.

Regarding purchasing a new Lexus, I too don't really care for the LS500. (don't like the firm ride...although the looks have grown on me) The interesting thing is, comfort has been my overriding reason for picking out the last 2 cars. While I am still interested in that, an issue I have with the G90 is that it is really LONG. I notice that I have trouble pulling in to a parking spot straight without having to maneuver a couple times (yep...I am getting old!). So comfort may not be the overriding factor (as much). I looked at the RX350h or possibly the RX450h plug in hybrid (for practical purposes) along with the ES300 or ES350. None offer the comfort I am used to or would like. However, any of those choices, in my mind, are good.

Based on what Lexus did for me when they GAVE me a new car to replace one with a sunroof issue, I should have NEVER gone away from Lexus

If comfort and reliability is your main goal, Lexus does look like a good choice.

A few of us here on the Genesis Owner's Forum are fans of small, fast and luxurious vehicles and we think the GV60 Performance fits that mold nicely. I am getting close to 79 and had a hip replacement a year ago. I went from an owner of sedans (my last was a BMW 5 series) to the Genesis small electric "SUV" (it is really a crossover much like a raised hatch). Getting in and out is a cinch (perfect height for me and it has easy entry/easy exit as well) and sight lines are good as well. The only downside, to me, is that it is a crossover, not a sedan, and won't handle like a sedan. But, alas, you don't have a reliable Genesis dealership in your city. BTW, I don't think that changing to a separate facility, with the same ownership and management, will make a change so I wouldn't plan on that.

Lexus makes a fine vehicle albeit not one on the cutting edge of technology. That is both a strength and a weakness.

As to car length, it seems that each generation every manufacturer is growing its vehicles. If you want to stay in the sedan world, and the ICE world, I would suggest looking at the mid sized options like the BMW 5/X5 vehicles, the MB E/GLE, and Audi equivalents. I am not a fan of the current Acura cars but the Acura SUVs are pretty good. If you decide to leave the Genesis family I would suggest exploring this world. Take some test drives and check the features.

You also might look at plug in hybrids in those families. They are becoming the alternative to fully ICE or electric vehicles. I traded in a BMW plug-in hybrid for my Genesis GV60P and it drove beautifully. The transition from electric to internal combustion was so smooth that I never even knew that it had cut in. Not only will it give you better fuel economy but if you do a lot of short local driving, you will rarely need the ICE engine.

If you decide to get rid of the Genesis G90, treat this as a fun exercise but it is also the best way to get a vehicle that will meet your needs.

For one, I am willing to put up with service delays SO LONG AS THE DEALERSHIP IMMEDIATELY OFFERS ME A LOANER. In all the years I drove a BMW, I always was able to call up, be told to come on in, and there was always a loaner for me. If a dealer did what yours did, after probably suing the bastard (I am a retired litigator so it would be fun) I would go elsewhere. My GV60P has been in the shop twice for maintenance and some other issues. Both times I was offered and given a quality loaner (the first time an almost new Electrified G80; the second time an almost new GV80). It is sad that you don't have a good Genesis dealership in your city.

In general, Lexus, BMW, MB, Audi and Acura all have good dealerships but not all of them. So also carefully read reviews, better business bureau, etc. of the dealerships in your area so you don't get stuck with another one like the Genesis dealership. If there are only a few reviews, I would not consider them as they may be fake. If you can, join forums for the car companies you are considering and read the comments in those forums, they may be more honest than dealership reviews.

In sum...good luck!

 

[Tau]

I looked at the RX350h or possibly the RX450h plug in hybrid (for practical purposes) along with the ES300 or ES350.

If you can wait, the Lexus ES is currently undergoing re-design and production is returning to Japan, instead of KY, for the '25 models.

 

[turnne]

. It took all day to get an oil change last year. That's because there are few actual Genesis dealers.

I am betting you can go to a Hyundai dealer...probably closer and significantly faster to get in and out.
V8 is the same the one that was in the Equus that the Hyundai dealers were servicing for years
Same filter...same oil

Dont waste a day with poor service at a Genesis dealer

As I am sure you know...there are many Lexus owners that go to a Toyota dealership because they can get in and out much faster for simple maintenance

Warren

 

[XXX]

I am betting you can go to a Hyundai dealer...probably closer and significantly faster to get in and out.
V8 is the same the one that was in the Equus that the Hyundai dealers were servicing for years
Same filter...same oil

Dont waste a day with poor service at a Genesis dealer

As I am sure you know...there are many Lexus owners that go to a Toyota dealership because they can get in and out much faster for simple maintenance

Warren

The Hyundai dealers here are not close to Toyota quality service. Lexus is superior to Genesis when it comes to understanding how to service a patron. Even when I owned a Celica GT, Toyota treated me like royalty. Genesis, Hyundai whatever. They have much to learn.

 

[turnne]

The Hyundai dealers here are not close to Toyota quality service. Lexus is superior to Genesis when it comes to understanding how to service a patron. Even when I owned a Celica GT, Toyota treated me like royalty. Genesis, Hyundai whatever. They have much to learn.

Ok...then I guess you can wait a day for an oil change then

I have to say the Hyundai dealers in my area have an " express" lube where they can do fast oil and filter changes.
You can show up with no appointment and get out within 45 minutes , typically, during business hours.

And yes I realize this is not a luxury car experience...I owned a few Mercedes benz vehicles in the past and fully understand the luxury vehicle experience. That experience has to do with the service level as well as being in the nicest parts of town.

Genesis is not even close to that...but the work around, in my opinion, is to try to save time at the Hyundai dealer when possible.

Warren

 

[XXX]

I can certainly understand the need for continual luxury service if you own a German car.

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[Husky]

I realize the German cars have earned that reputation, but FWIW I drove a few different 3 series sedans over the course of about 15 years and had very good experiences. Those cars were as reliable as any others I've owned. Just a few recalls.
I will say that one of them had an electric water pump fail at 60k miles (which though early, is the recommended service internal, so my bad for pushing my luck). It failed on a Friday as I pulled into work. I called the local BMW dealer and explained that it had failed and that we had made plans to take it on a trip to Quebec on Sunday. They came to my workplace, flat-bedded the car, and had it fixed on Saturday so that I could drive it on Sunday. Pretty impressive service! That was the only "unexpected" failure I ever experienced.
When my G70 sunroof exploded for no reason, I waited weeks for Genesis to respond. They were no use whatsoever, and the dealer just wanted to send it to a collision shop to have the whole sunroof assembly removed, along with the windshield, even though there were no replacements to be found in the country. I ended up taking it to a local auto glass shop and getting it fixed. They replaced just the glass, in one afternoon. Luckily my insurance covered everything. (They also told me that Hyundai and Kia products were the worst for this type of failure.)

 

[EdP]

I
When my G70 sunroof exploded for no reason, I waited weeks for Genesis to respond. They were no use whatsoever, and the dealer just wanted to send it to a collision shop to have the whole sunroof assembly removed, along with the windshield, even though there were no replacements to be found in the country. I ended up taking it to a local auto glass shop and getting it fixed. They replaced just the glass, in one afternoon. Luckily my insurance covered everything. (They also told me that Hyundai and Kia products were the worst for this type of failure.)

Mercedes had a recall for sunroofs. A law firm is considering a class action against car makers for sunroofs, they listed 18 of them.
Looks like the ratio is fairly close to the number of cars on the road from various brands but the Santa Fe is tops.

If You Own One of These 10 Cars, Your Sunroof Could ‘Explode’

Having a sunroof in your car is an open-air luxury that used to actually be an option in new cars. Nowadays, it seems like every car, even in its base

www.motorbiscuit.com

 

[Husky]

I will say that the reliability of German cars is much more dependent on the year and model of the particular car, as opposed to most Japanese and Korean (?) cars.
I think the advice to not buy the first year of a new car model applies to the Germans more than most. And when they do have issues, they can be whopper$$. You need to "do your research" before buying.

 

[XXX]

Let's just continue to beat a dead horse. Hyundai/Genesis absolute worst service in the industry. I'm not even sure that new stand a lone Genesis dealers will be better. The service just isn't there. It may take years for these Genesis dealers to get their s&!$ together.

 

[steveinarizona]

Let's just continue to beat a dead horse. Hyundai/Genesis absolute worst service in the industry. I'm not even sure that new stand a lone Genesis dealers will be better. The service just isn't there. It may take years for these Genesis dealers to get their s&!$ together.

I am not sure I agree. So far, fifteen months in, I have received excellent service from Genesis of Scottsdale. Others on this forum have also received excellent service from their dealers. But, there have been many reports in this forum of truly ugly service. A Tammany Hall politician at the turn of the century described his graft as: youse pays your money and youse takes your chances. That seems to describe Genesis service nationwide.

 

[EdP]

Let's just continue to beat a dead horse. Hyundai/Genesis absolute worst service in the industry. I'm not even sure that new stand a lone Genesis dealers will be better. The service just isn't there. It may take years for these Genesis dealers to get their s&!$ together.

You forgot to say "some" or even "many". My dealer has been excellent.

 

[Trixie86]

Let's just continue to beat a dead horse. Hyundai/Genesis absolute worst service in the industry. I'm not even sure that new stand a lone Genesis dealers will be better. The service just isn't there. It may take years for these Genesis dealers to get their s&!$ together.

 

[turnne]

I can certainly understand the need for continual luxury service if you own a German car.

If you have the desire for a myriad of customization options( leather, color options, wheel options, sizes of wheels etc etc etc) and cutting edge/unique /firsts technology...the only choice you have is one of the Germans. This includes RR and Bentley brands that are owned by the Germans.

Additionally....luxury seems to be only sold in the United States, in volume, in what is defined as a luxury environment.

Warren

 

[XXX]

You forgot to say "some" or even "many". My dealer has been excellent.

My vision of Genesis/Hyundai service is strictly based on the service level I've received. The fact that it took many months to get in a part, all day for an oil change, no loaners, no way to get anyone on the phone period and still an steering issue in roughly 3 years, is my lot in life. Compare that to my experience with Lexus Service, and there's no comparison. I'm not alone. "The market research company JD Power released its ranking of auto brands based on the quality of the sales experience they provide. Genesis received the lowest score, with 736 out of a possible 1,000 points.

I certainly hope they continue to improve.

 

[XXX]

If you have the desire for a myriad of customization options( leather, color options, wheel options, sizes of wheels etc etc etc) and cutting edge/unique /firsts technology...the only choice you have is one of the Germans. This includes RR and Bentley brands that are owned by the Germans.

Additionally....luxury seems to be only sold in the United States, in volume, in what is defined as a luxury environment.

Warren

I'm not wealthy like you. I drive a car for comfort and price. All my cars are black on black. That's pretty standard stuff.