Used GV60 purchase: Waiting for 50% off MSRP

[oilerlord]

So, I thought I had a deal done on a low mileage GV60P a few weeks ago but the dealer wouldn't come down the extra dollars to get it done. Yeah, I'm being a stickler for this because buying a used EV at 50% off MSRP gives me comfort.

In my experience, those looking to buy a used EV, it usually takes about 12-18 months of depreciation to make it happen on a non-Tesla electric car. Time is on your side, not the dealer - who's losing money each day the car sits on their lot for months. Don't let them push you around because there is always another car that will come available.

Sure I'm excited to get back to driving an EV, but patience is key.

 

[jeff585]

It usually takes 12-18 months of depreciation for a non Tesla electric car to lose 1/2 it's value? Curious where are you getting this data from?

In any event, what you are describing has little to do with you wanting to buy an EV. It's the same for any used vehicle, whether being sold by a dealer or privately. Obviously the dealer thinks he can do better than what you offered. Maybe the dealer is wrong, or maybe he's right. It might be still on the dealer's lot a month from now, or it might be sold today.

Do you know for a fact that he has been sitting on the car for months? If yes, has he reduced the price? You can assume the dealer has a very good idea what it's worth. And he knows there are not that many used GV60's out there.

The flip side of course is that it sounds like you have been trying to buy a used GV60P in the mid 30's for a few weeks but still have not succeeded. Why do you think that is?

I would say your trying to buy a low milage used GV60P in the mid 30's is a pretty tall order. There are two for sale in my area, both priced in the mid to upper $40's. Don't think many dealer would price a car in the mid to upper 40's and be willing to sell in the mid 30's.

 

[oilerlord]

"It usually takes 12-18 months of depreciation for a non Tesla electric car to lose 1/2 it's value? Curious where are you getting this data from?"

The data from checking resale prices on cars.com and dealer sites. Right now, you can find several clean 2023 G60p's for sale in the low $40's with MSRP's above $70K. That's already 40% off, and buying at list without making an offer.

"Do you know for a fact that he has been sitting on the car for months? If yes, has he reduced the price?"

Yes. A basic Carfax report shows all events, including when the dealer listed the car for sale. Cars.com maintains a price drop chart on most every car they list. Every car on my watchlist has still been for sale since April, and all have been discounted.

"You can assume the dealer has a very good idea what it's worth. And he knows there are not that many used GV60's out there."

Not every used GV60 is being sold by a Genesis dealership. Many are bought via dealer auctions like Manheim and Adessa (that I've also bought cars from as an independent dealer). Dealers (from every brand) buy cars from these auctions, and put them on their used lot. You are correct that there are not many used GV60's out there, but very few have been produced and sold too. Dealers sometimes take a flyer on a high MSRP unicorn - Like a GV60 and figure they stole it at the auction, then...it sits. Dealers become more and more motivated to move these cars because each additional day the car sits on their lot costs them money. When their financial pain gets too great, they dump it.

"The flip side of course is that it sounds like you have been trying to buy a used GV60P in the mid 30's for a few weeks but still have not succeeded. Why do you think that is?"

It's not like I'm in a rush, and begging salespeople to sell me a car. There is always another one. I've done this process several times before...I make an offer, and if it's rejected I wait. A "few weeks" is just the start of this process, it may take months. It's not failure, it's about being patient to make the best deal I can.

"Don't think many dealer would price a car in the mid to upper 40's and be willing to sell in the mid 30's."

Perhaps not on a Tesla or a Toyota Camry because they are in fairly high demand. Low volume / high depreciation cars - you bet they do.

 

[steveinarizona]

"It usually takes 12-18 months of depreciation for a non Tesla electric car to lose 1/2 it's value? Curious where are you getting this data from?"

The data from checking resale prices on cars.com and dealer sites. Right now, you can find several clean 2023 G60p's for sale in the low $40's with MSRP's above $70K. That's already 40% off, and buying at list without making an offer.

"Do you know for a fact that he has been sitting on the car for months? If yes, has he reduced the price?"

Yes. A basic Carfax report shows all events, including when the dealer listed the car for sale. Cars.com maintains a price drop chart on most every car they list. Every car on my watchlist has still been for sale since April, and all have been discounted.

"You can assume the dealer has a very good idea what it's worth. And he knows there are not that many used GV60's out there."

Not every used GV60 is being sold by a Genesis dealership. Many are bought via dealer auctions like Manheim and Adessa (that I've also bought cars from as an independent dealer). Dealers (from every brand) buy cars from these auctions, and put them on their used lot. You are correct that there are not many used GV60's out there, but very few have been produced and sold too. Dealers sometimes take a flyer on a high MSRP unicorn - Like a GV60 and figure they stole it at the auction, then...it sits. Dealers become more and more motivated to move these cars because each additional day the car sits on their lot costs them money. When their financial pain gets too great, they dump it.

"The flip side of course is that it sounds like you have been trying to buy a used GV60P in the mid 30's for a few weeks but still have not succeeded. Why do you think that is?"

It's not like I'm in a rush, and begging salespeople to sell me a car. There is always another one. I've done this process several times before...I make an offer, and if it's rejected I wait. A "few weeks" is just the start of this process, it may take months. It's not failure, it's about being patient to make the best deal I can.

"Don't think many dealer would price a car in the mid to upper 40's and be willing to sell in the mid 30's."

Perhaps not on a Tesla or a Toyota Camry because they are in fairly high demand. Low volume / high depreciation cars - you bet they do.

Eventually, you will probably get this done. The process you are going through would be too painful for me but it sounds like you enjoy it. So...go for it and good luck.

 

[oilerlord]

The process you are going through would be too painful for me but it sounds like you enjoy it. So...go for it and good luck.

You know, I really do enjoy the deal making process almost as much as taking delivery. For anyone with the patience to do this, it works. I'd recommend making written offers with an expiry date so they know you're serious about going through with the deal, and that it's time limited.

Also, "Documentation fee" is a load of BS. The people writing up the sale are paid employees, not revenue centers.
Make your offers "All-In".

 

[wolverine]

it usually takes about 12-18 months of depreciation to make it happen on a non-Tesla electric car.

Been looking to buy a lightly used EV for my daughter and I don't see that at all. Not suggesting EV's have not seen high depreciation over the last 18 months, but "usually" 50% in 18 months or less? No way.

You are taking an extreme example...the highest priced trim level of a model that has experienced unusually high deprecation, but even with that the "usual" depreciation is not 50% in 18 months.

Dealers here in the northeast (whether Genesis authorized or otherwise) are asking mid to upper 40's for lightly used, accident and damage free GV60P's and the few there have been for sale here don't seem to be sitting on dealer lots for inordinate amounts of time, There simply just have not been very many offered at all.

NADA Black Book (the one that dealers and lenders use, not the consumer version) estimates the trade in value for a clean unit with 10k miles to be about $42k, with the average reported sale price of $46k. No doubt very significant depreciation, but far less than 50%.

But even with that, if you want to see more "usual" depreciation rates you need to look at non Tesla EV models with lower MSRP's that have been sold in VASTLY higher quantities than the GV60, models like the Ioniq5, EV6, Kona and Niro. Easy to see the depreciation percentages on those models are WAY less than the GV60.

Again, not suggesting EV's overall have not seen unusually high depreciation. But the GV60P is not a "usual" situation.

 

[oilerlord]

Again, not suggesting EV's overall have not seen unusually high depreciation. But the GV60P is not a "usual" situation.

The GV60P is my situation, and I'd assume everyone else here who's looking to buy one.

The 50% number I've mentioned is off MSRP, and yes, I've made deals before on other EVs at that discount. I'll agree that a GV60P likely has a more inflated MSRP, and that it might take more time and miles to achieve that 50% off on a bare-bones Chevy Bolt or similar.

There are buying tools available, that help people willing to do the legwork find the best cars at the lowest price possible. For some, that's painful. For me, it's just part of the process.

 

[oilerlord]

Do you know for a fact that he has been sitting on the car for months? If yes, has he reduced the price?

 

[Alfer]

To me buying a used EV is a HUGE gamble compared to buying any used ICE vehicle.

 

[oilerlord]

To me buying a used EV is a HUGE gamble compared to buying any used ICE vehicle.

If you're referring to a financial gamble, if you're smart about buying after the big depreciation hit, then you get to the point where the no gas / no maintenance can make it a financial win.

I've owned / driven all sorts of cars but I prefer driving electric. That smooth quiet power is amazing.

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[Alfer]

I'd be way more fearful of the battery condition and lifespan when buying say even an EV that has 35,000 miles on it. The end of life for that battery could be very near. As opposed to an ICE vehicle, people don't think twice about mid to higher mileage cars. Many ICE cars these days could got well over 100K miles with next to no worries. Not the case with an EV.

 

[oilerlord]

I'd be way more fearful of the battery condition and lifespan when buying say even an EV that has 35,000 miles on it. The end of life for that battery could be very near. As opposed to an ICE vehicle, people don't think twice about mid to higher mileage cars. Many ICE cars these days could got well over 100K miles with next to no worries. Not the case with an EV.

That's the typical group-think from people who haven't kept up with the evolution of battery technology. Sure, early Nissan Leafs had air-cooled batteries, and minimal battery management systems both hindered the lifespan of the battery.

A Genesis GV60 comes with a 100K mile / 10-year battery warranty where if capacity drops below 80% of new, they fix or replace it. I'd say Genesis is fairly confident they won't need to replace batteries under warranty. If they were "fearful", there's no way the warranty would be that long.

 

[Grayson]

That's the typical group-think from people who haven't kept up with the evolution of battery technology. Sure, early Nissan Leafs had air-cooled batteries, and minimal battery management systems both hindered the lifespan of the battery.

A Genesis GV60 comes with a 100K mile / 10-year battery warranty where if capacity drops below 80% of new, they fix or replace it. I'd say Genesis is fairly confident they won't need to replace batteries under warranty. If they were "fearful", there's no way the warranty would be that long.

It's 70%, not 80%, right? That being said, even at 70%, it makes a great daily driver.

 

[steveinarizona]

It's 70%, not 80%, right? That being said, even at 70%, it makes a great daily driver.

Correct and I should add that the warranty was required by federal law:

EV Battery Warranties and Exclusions | GreenCars

Before purchasing any vehicle, it’s best to check the warranty fine print. Our GreenCars team goes into detail on EV Battery Warranties here.

www.greencars.com

But I agree with the OP...I don't think buying a used EV is any more risky than a used ICE vehicle. Either could have been driven like trash or carefully like the little old lady from Pasadena.

 

[Looney100]

I'd be way more fearful of the battery condition and lifespan when buying say even an EV that has 35,000 miles on it. The end of life for that battery could be very near. As opposed to an ICE vehicle, people don't think twice about mid to higher mileage cars. Many ICE cars these days could got well over 100K miles with next to no worries. Not the case with an EV.

This is misguided. Modern EVs can do 100K, easy. If you care to do some googling, you'll find people commenting on the remaining range of their >100K Teslas. My GV60 is now at 20K kms, and still reads 100% battery SOH.

Please show me the 100K mile ICE vehicle that still runs as it did when new. Engine wear and carbon build-up will reduce range on high mileage ICE vehicles. There is a lot of concern about performance of direct-injection motors (which are now the standard) at higher mileages because fuel - and therefore, detergent - is not sprayed over the valves, which makes build-up nearly unmanageable.

 

[Grayson]

This is misguided. Modern EVs can do 100K, easy. If you care to do some googling, you'll find people commenting on the remaining range of their >100K Teslas. My GV60 is now at 20K kms, and still reads 100% battery SOH.

I think our cars will always show 100% battery SOH even if the battery is only at 70% capactiy. Have to use OBD2 reader to know how much "remaining energy" the battery holds at 100% charge. Every time I charge to 100%, I see what the remaining energy is. I'm probably at 1% degradation currently.

 

[Sampras]

I think our cars will always show 100% battery SOH even if the battery is only at 70% capactiy. Have to use OBD2 reader to know how much "remaining energy" the battery holds at 100% charge. Every time I charge to 100%, I see what the remaining energy is. I'm probably at 1% degradation currently.

View attachment 59221

How many miles have you put on your car to get that 1% degradation?

 

[wolverine]

I'd be way more fearful of the battery condition and lifespan when buying say even an EV that has 35,000 miles on it. The end of life for that battery could be very near. As opposed to an ICE vehicle, people don't think twice about mid to higher mileage cars. Many ICE cars these days could got well over 100K miles with next to no worries. Not the case with an EV.

With all the misinformation out there about EV's I totally get why someone like this who has obviously never had one would be afraid of the unknown.

As time passes and the word continues to get out about the realities of owning an EV, comments like this will gradually disappear.

When I bought the GV60 I gave my Model S with 163,000 miles on it to my nephew. Just saw him today and he is at 176,000 miles. While I can't say the car was overall any more or less trouble free versus the last few ICE vehicles I've had, the battery and electric motors continue to be bulletproof and battery degradation is in the 12-15% range. So for me buying another EV was a no brainer.

Contrast that with his mother's Lexus SUV with a transmission failure at only 71,000 miles. Dealer quoted over $7000 parts and labor to replace it. Lucky we found a local trans shop that rebuilt it for $4200.

 

[Mcc]

With all the misinformation out there about EV's I totally get why someone like this who has obviously never had one would be afraid of the unknown.

Perhaps you can help to set the record straight, what sort of misinformation is out there?

 

[wolverine]

Perhaps you can help to set the record straight, what sort of misinformation is out there?

Here are 6 examples from the EPA:

Electric Vehicle Myths | US EPA