WSJ: Tesla autopilot data shows cameras failed to recognize objects in road

[JohnSC]

https://www.wsj.com/video/series/te...as-crash/68D26569-0251-4637-A035-A5131D8883B8

 

[EdP]

https://www.wsj.com/video/series/te...as-crash/68D26569-0251-4637-A035-A5131D8883B8

Must be a subscriber to view it.

I did see a video though where it did not see an overturned truck and ran into it. Seems like you still have to look out the window.

Google Search

 

[Jhon]

I just purchased a used Tesla truck. It just needs a paint job and some new wheels...

 

[steveinarizona]

I just purchased a used Tesla truck. It just needs a paint job and some new wheels...

I just returned from an exercise walk in the mall where there is a Tesla showroom. They have a cybertruck on display there. I glanced in to see if I would turn to stone upon gazing at it. Fortunately, I didn't but it was a close call.

I do think your truck is better looking.

 

[Alfer]

I was amused at how many Cybertrucks we saw around Dallas the other weekend. And see a Tesla store in a shopping mall was interesting site as well.

 

[Jhon]

I was amused at how many Cybertrucks we saw around Dallas the other weekend. And see a Tesla store in a shopping mall was interesting site as well.

I have yet to see one where I live. My son that lives in butt f***k Iowa sees them there.

 

[steveinarizona]

I was amused at how many Cybertrucks we saw around Dallas the other weekend. And see a Tesla store in a shopping mall was interesting site as well.

This is the new way to sell cars. The Scottsdale Fashion Square Mall has Tesla, Lucid and Polestar showrooms. Further north is Scottsdale Quarter with showrooms for Genesis and Lincoln. Of course, the dealerships have to have service facilities somewhere.

 

[Jhon]

This is the new way to sell cars. The Scottsdale Fashion Square Mall has Tesla, Lucid and Polestar showrooms. Further north is Scottsdale Quarter with showrooms for Genesis and Lincoln. Of course, the dealerships have to have service facilities somewhere.

The Tesla only dealership I have ever seen is in a mall in Sarasota Florida. Not a bad idea. I wonder where the shop is?

 

[steveinarizona]

The Tesla only dealership I have ever seen is in a mall in Sarasota Florida. Not a bad idea. I wonder where the shop is?

For Tesla, there is one at 5231 McIntosh Rd in Sarasota. In the case of Genesis of Scottsdale, the company is finishing/has finished a service building on the premises of the Hyundai dealership approximately two miles away from the mall showroom. For what its worth one of the sales guys told me that they have 100 cars on the roof of the mall (it wouldn't be the first time a sales person prevaricated).

This is becoming fairly common. There are two unrelated upscale malls situated across Scottsdale Road from each other in north Phoenix/Scottsdale. I previously said that there were two at Scottsdale Quarter (Genesis and Lincoln); there is a Tesla showroom across the street at Kierland Commons. Interestingly, there are Tesla superchargers at both malls.

 

[JohnSC]

Must be a subscriber to view it.

I did see a video though where it did not see an overturned truck and ran into it. Seems like you still have to look out the window.

Google Search

Sorry, Ed. Maybe this link will work:

https://www.wsj.com/business/autos/tesla-autopilot-crash-investigation-997b0129?st=wu3mxpwel6vtl1q&reflink=desktopwebshare_permalink

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[JohnSC]

For Tesla, there is one at 5231 McIntosh Rd in Sarasota. In the case of Genesis of Scottsdale, the company is finishing/has finished a service building on the premises of the Hyundai dealership approximately two miles away from the mall showroom. For what its worth one of the sales guys told me that they have 100 cars on the roof of the mall (it wouldn't be the first time a sales person prevaricated).

This is becoming fairly common. There are two unrelated upscale malls situated across Scottsdale Road from each other in north Phoenix/Scottsdale. I previously said that there were two at Scottsdale Quarter (Genesis and Lincoln); there is a Tesla showroom across the street at Kierland Commons. Interestingly, there are Tesla superchargers at both malls.

Had lunch with three Tesla owners who had driven to North Carolina or Atlanta to buy their Teslas. Tesla storefronts are banned in South Carolina, and I explained that the lack of service was a factor in our decision to go with Genesis. Their response was, "What service?" None had needed service beyond what any mechanic could perform. Updates and recalls were done over the air. Two of the three had owned their Teslas for several years.

When I commented that my wife found the Tesla "stark and drab," they all pretty much agreed and smiled politely. I thought about, but did not mention, the YouTube videos showing misaligned body parts.

Seems there has been discussion about Tesla selling them online at Amazon. Maybe Amazon would give you a return code if something was less than pristine. Still, I do envy their charging network.

 

[Jhon]

Had lunch with three Tesla owners who had driven to North Carolina or Atlanta to buy their Teslas. Tesla storefronts are banned in South Carolina, and I explained that the lack of service was a factor in our decision to go with Genesis. Their response was, "What service?" None had needed service beyond what any mechanic could perform. Updates and recalls were done over the air. Two of the three had owned their Teslas for several years.

When I commented that my wife found the Tesla "stark and drab," they all pretty much agreed and smiled politely. I thought about, but did not mention, the YouTube videos showing misaligned body parts.

Seems there has been discussion about Tesla selling them online at Amazon. Maybe Amazon would give you a return code if something was less than pristine. Still, I do envy their charging network.

The issue with you thinking that Tesla is a POS is brought to you by the Media that hates Musk.
I can't remember the last time I read anything positive about Musk or Tesla. That is how our media works. They slant the news to agree with whatever their agenda is.

The media does their best to destroy people and things they do not like.

I am not a political person and by no means a Trump person, but the smear job they are now doing on JD Vance is another example. I have not read one positive thing about him on any of the news feeds I watch. Not one thing! Nothing! All negative.
He must have done something right sometime in his life. (I liked his movie). The Media wants Trump to go away and they will do what they can to help. Fox does the same on the other side, but Fox is greatly outnumbered.
I couldn't care less who the president is, as it does not matter a hill of beans to me. But is is sure fun to watch.

 

[steveinarizona]

He must have done something right sometime in his life. (I liked his movie).

Even though you say you are not political this post is. Lets keep politics out of it. But if you must, tell us what he did do right.

 

[Alfer]

The issue with you thinking that Tesla is a POS is brought to you by the Media that hates Musk.
I can't remember the last time I read anything positive about Musk or Tesla. That is how our media works. They slant the news to agree with whatever their agenda is.

The media does their best to destroy people and things they do not like.

I am not a political person and by no means a Trump person, but the smear job they are now doing on JD Vance is another example. I have not read one positive thing about him on any of the news feeds I watch. Not one thing! Nothing! All negative.
He must have done something right sometime in his life. (I liked his movie). The Media wants Trump to go away and they will do what they can to help. Fox does the same on the other side, but Fox is greatly outnumbered.
I couldn't care less who the president is, as it does not matter a hill of beans to me. But is is sure fun to watch.

Yup. And suddenly the person pretty much EVERYONE said (and knew) is the most hated/disliked, and one of the most incompetent people in D.C. is the Golden Child per the MSM. Nuts.

 

[JohnSC]

The issue with you thinking that Tesla is a POS is brought to you by the Media that hates Musk.
I can't remember the last time I read anything positive about Musk or Tesla. That is how our media works. They slant the news to agree with whatever their agenda is.

The media does their best to destroy people and things they do not like.

I am not a political person and by no means a Trump person, but the smear job they are now doing on JD Vance is another example. I have not read one positive thing about him on any of the news feeds I watch. Not one thing! Nothing! All negative.
He must have done something right sometime in his life. (I liked his movie). The Media wants Trump to go away and they will do what they can to help. Fox does the same on the other side, but Fox is greatly outnumbered.
I couldn't care less who the president is, as it does not matter a hill of beans to me. But is is sure fun to watch.

Jhon, vehicles are not always perfect as delivered. My Genesis was taken right back to the dealer on a minor deal after delivery, something that wasn't caught during a walk-around at purchase. For those of us in states that have banned Tesla storefronts, dealing with any imperfection is hardly as convenient as having a local dealership. That's why the local dealers lobbied hard to keep them out of the state.

It may surprise you, but my view is that Tesla should not have been banned from selling in South Carolina, any more than Carvana or anyone else selling vehicles without a "dealership." In fact, my Genesis "dealership" does not have a service department. All repairs are handled by their Hyandai partners next door, a fact that did not come up in our negotiation. Fault me for not asking.

Fewer "dealerships" have body shops. When we needed one for our Genesis, I was referred to a Chevrolet shop nearby owned by the same dealer group that owns the Genesis "dealership." Many "dealerships" locally contract out their body work, which buyers may discover only when needed. In our case, even the paperwork said "Chevrolet," and I wondered how that might resonate with a prospective buyer down the road.

I may be wrong, but Tesla probably has contracts with "authorized" repair shops to handle imperfections and mechanical repairs. If so, that would satisfy many customers and would be understood before sale, unlike my experience with Genesis. I was rewarded with Hyundai service, not Genesis, not that it would have changed anything in my case. Hyundai has serviced the vehicle competently, and like Tesla, the Electrified GV70 does not require a lot of maintenance other than recalls, which aren't always done over air, unlike Tesla.

None of this changes my wife's view that the Tesla was stark and drab. At the risk of bodily injury, I'll say that it was fine to my eyes. A bigger consideration was the convenience of knobs over menus and a customizable touchscreen, as we are both older drivers.

And none of this is intended to belittle Tesla, although I can see where I may have led you to that conclusion.

Whether the media is out to get Elon Musk and the EV industry is another matter. The source of this article was the Wall Street Journal, which was bought in 2007 by Rupert Murdoch.

 

[EdP]

It may surprise you, but my view is that Tesla should not have been banned from selling in South Carolina, any more than Carvana or anyone else selling vehicles without a "dealership." In fact, my Genesis "dealership" does not have a service department. All repairs are handled by their Hyandai partners next door, a fact that did not come up in our negotiation. Fault me for not asking.

And none of this is intended to belittle Tesla, although I can see where I may have led you to that conclusion.

Just to clarify, they are not banning Tesla, they do not allow any auto manufacturers to sell direct to consumers. This is EVERY brand, not just Tesla. It goes back to the 1930s when car makers started using dealers for sales. Franchise laws prevent direct sales to protect dealers. Laws vary by state.

Carvana is just another used car lot, not covered by franchise laws, just like Bob's Really Good Cars and such. There is no requirement that dealers have a service shop. Traditionally, most do as it is a profit center.

Franchise laws can be tough. Look how long it took Genesis to be able to spin off and open Genesis dealers, not selling through existing Hyundai dealers.

 

[JohnSC]

Just to clarify, they are not banning Tesla, they do not allow any auto manufacturers to sell direct to consumers. This is EVERY brand, not just Tesla. It goes back to the 1930s when car makers started using dealers for sales. Franchise laws prevent direct sales to protect dealers. Laws vary by state.

Carvana is just another used car lot, not covered by franchise laws, just like Bob's Really Good Cars and such. There is no requirement that dealers have a service shop. Traditionally, most do as it is a profit center.

Franchise laws can be tough. Look how long it took Genesis to be able to spin off and open Genesis dealers, not selling through existing Hyundai dealers

Thanks, Ed. The old law was struck down as anti-competitive in several states, including North Carolina and probably Georgia. But a bill to allow Tesla to sell in South Carolina died in committee in 2019 with opposition from dealerships and their manufacturers. The concern here was not all manufacturers, mostly struggling startups, but the EV manufacturer that controls 60% of the market worldwide.

Interesting that South Carolina is attracting thousands of jobs producing EV batteries along with a Tesla regional parts distribution center that recently opened here in Greenville. We also have tens of thousands working in auto plants and their suppliers -- including the BMW plant here in Greenville -- who eventually will be making EVs. Currently, there are only 20k EVs statewide and we lag behind other states in superchargers, with the overwhelming majority of vehicles and superchargers being Tesla, although we cannot buy the EVs in South Carolina.

Bottom line: Would I have bought a Tesla if they were available locally? Probably not, for the reasons cited earlier. But the question is whether others might. Indeed, given the superchargers and numbers of Teslas here, the answer for some would be heck yes. Which is why the bill to allow them in was defeated.

I posted a piece elsewhere on a Senate budget committee meeting on EVs quoting Sen. Lindsey Graham (R-S.C.) saying he sees an "upside" with EVs. Incentives aside, barriers to a level playing field are something entirely different and not a part of this piece.

 

[SuperKing]

One thing I've noticed is that not a lot of bodyshops are willing to take on repairing an EV. This probably a lack of training or lack of replacement parts. In my Canadian province, we have provincial car insurance that deals with everything and their storage lot is filled with EVs that have been in accidents. Anything requiring more than a repaint just sits there.

Back in February, my parents wrecked the 2018 Ioniq that I bought them. It was a write off. When I went to the storage lot to grab the plates and empty out the car, I checked out the damage and there was no way this car should've been written off. I can only guess nobody wanted to be liable if the car caught fire in the future in case they missed some damage to the battery. It wasn't even a question of the repairs costing more than the car's value. They paid out $28k for a car I paid $34k for. That's only $1k depreciation for every year we've had it. The car wasn't even the plug in hybrid or EV, it was just the regular hybrid.