The mystery about transmission hard shift is finally revealed (TSB for HARSH 2~3, 3~4 OR 4~5 UPSHIFT)

[EvoPol@1428]

Wishing you the best of luck. Keep us posted on the progress and the outcome.

Thanks for the well wishes, I need it all the support I can get a specially from you Husam who spearheaded the concept of transmission solenoid "how to fix"... Absolutely I'm planning to give you All progress report no question about it !

 

[PW405]

Well, I'm getting ready to replace Valve Body Assembly and E-Module + Trans fluid + Pan... on my 2020 G80 - 65K miles - 2nd owner, no warranty, no codes, no warning lights . All of the above done in the same time.
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Special thanks to Husam who actually inspired me to go for it, at the young age of 75...... No, I'm not car mechanic, yes I do have background in automotive engineering and design and cars been my passion all my life. Most importantly I don't mind to get my hand dirty. Like any project Im sure there will be unexpected concern's to be addressed. Wish me luck

We salute you!! That's awesome! ...here I am at 39 thinking "Maybe in my younger years I would try to DIY this!"

However, with career demands seemingly reaching new peaks year after year, I'll have to let the pro's handle this one! Speaking of, a few updates since my last post! I finally got the car!! It took ~90 days from writing the check to being completely free of the awful dealership. It was a Ford dealer used car, so expectations weren't high. But they were higher than this.

At any rate - I got the mailer for the recall notice about the starter assembly burning the house down. Figured I'd have dealer replace that and get the TSB work performed at the same time. I'll need a loaner car and I don't have a relationship with this dealer. (Maybe I could rent a $6,500 designer suit and go shake a few hands ahead of time...)

I've put about 2,000 miles on the car now (1X 500 mile road trip) and it has honestly been pretty good about harsh shifting for the most part. The very specific scenario of: Accelerating from a stop, needing to slow down, then accelerate again under 25 MPH is almost a sure bet of a harsh shift.

Interestingly - harsh shift seems to occur way less often when accelerating quickly, say 50% or more throttle from a stop. In my case, above 40 mph, shifts are smooth as butter. So highway driving is A-OK. Unfortunately, my commute is 100% suburban/city.

I've been able to pretty easily recognize when a harsh shift will happen and I simply reduce throttle to lessen the force of the impact. Very easy to see if you watch the tach. (Of note - I drove a 2010 6-speed manual Gen Coupe for 15 years. When it comes to avoiding hard shifts, let's just say I have a particular set of skills.)

Last time the Genesis dealer quoted me "Around $1,000" for the TSB. I contacted same dealer today to ask about the recall work and the TSB. I'll keep everybody posted with progress!

 

[skipgen]

We salute you!! That's awesome! ...here I am at 39 thinking "Maybe in my younger years I would try to DIY this!"

However, with career demands seemingly reaching new peaks year after year, I'll have to let the pro's handle this one! Speaking of, a few updates since my last post! I finally got the car!! It took ~90 days from writing the check to being completely free of the awful dealership. It was a Ford dealer used car, so expectations weren't high. But they were higher than this.

At any rate - I got the mailer for the recall notice about the starter assembly burning the house down. Figured I'd have dealer replace that and get the TSB work performed at the same time. I'll need a loaner car and I don't have a relationship with this dealer. (Maybe I could rent a $6,500 designer suit and go shake a few hands ahead of time...)

I've put about 2,000 miles on the car now (1X 500 mile road trip) and it has honestly been pretty good about harsh shifting for the most part. The very specific scenario of: Accelerating from a stop, needing to slow down, then accelerate again under 25 MPH is almost a sure bet of a harsh shift.

Interestingly - harsh shift seems to occur way less often when accelerating quickly, say 50% or more throttle from a stop. In my case, above 40 mph, shifts are smooth as butter. So highway driving is A-OK. Unfortunately, my commute is 100% suburban/city.

I've been able to pretty easily recognize when a harsh shift will happen and I simply reduce throttle to lessen the force of the impact. Very easy to see if you watch the tach. (Of note - I drove a 2010 6-speed manual Gen Coupe for 15 years. When it comes to avoiding hard shifts, let's just say I have a particular set of skills.)

Last time the Genesis dealer quoted me "Around $1,000" for the TSB. I contacted same dealer today to ask about the recall work and the TSB. I'll keep everybody posted with progress!

Oddly, If I drive my 5.0 like I stole it. It shifts perfectly everytime....

 

[Emilime75]

Today I replaced the solenoids along with a new pan and fluid on my 2017 G80. Not a lot of fun on jack stands in my drive way. Sadly, this did not fix my 2/3, 3/4, 4/5 harsh shift. Only drove it about 20-30 miles, and it may be a little better than it was, but it is definitely still there.

 

[Husam]

Today I replaced the solenoids along with a new pan and fluid on my 2017 G80. Not a lot of fun on jack stands in my drive way. Sadly, this did not fix my 2/3, 3/4, 4/5 harsh shift. Only drove it about 20-30 miles, and it may be a little better than it was, but it is definitely still there.

Did you perform shift reset and adaptations using the OBD scanner? If not, keep driving it for a few days and report back. It may improve over time as long as you don't have mechanical failure in the transmission or a worn out valve body (potentially).


Thank you,

 

[PW405]

Today I replaced the solenoids along with a new pan and fluid on my 2017 G80. Not a lot of fun on jack stands in my drive way. Sadly, this did not fix my 2/3, 3/4, 4/5 harsh shift. Only drove it about 20-30 miles, and it may be a little better than it was, but it is definitely still there.

Crap, this isn't reassuring. I still haven't scheduled my work at the dealer yet. Hopefully the TCM reset procedure or additional miles will help to restore some smoothness.

How many miles does yours have? My 2017 currently has ~74K.

 

[Emilime75]

Did you perform shift reset and adaptations using the OBD scanner? If not, keep driving it for a few days and report back. It may improve over time as long as you don't have mechanical failure in the transmission or a worn out valve body (potentially).


Thank you,

I did not. I don't have a scanner capable of doing that.

As for a worn out valve body - are those available as a standalone part or is going used the only option other than replacing the whole trans? Anyone know the part #?

EDIT: I found it, part #46200-4J210. Roughly $1300, or about $1000 if you feel it's safe to order from a Kia parts retailer.

 

[Emilime75]

Crap, this isn't reassuring. I still haven't scheduled my work at the dealer yet. Hopefully the TCM reset procedure or additional miles will help to restore some smoothness.

How many miles does yours have? My 2017 currently has ~74K.

I can't remember right now, but I know it's over 100k. It's actually my GF's car, but I drive it often like anytime we go anywhere together.

 

[eldergolfer21]

I did not. I don't have a scanner capable of doing that.

As for a worn out valve body - are those available as a standalone part or is going used the only option other than replacing the whole trans? Anyone know the part #?

EDIT: I found it, part #46200-4J210. Roughly $1300, or about $1000 if you feel it's safe to order from a Kia parts retailer.

I have a 2012 with 125K on it, replaced the solenoids and just drove it. I could tell that it shifted better already, but not quite right. Then, I reset the transmission (with a scan tool) and it shifted like a dream.

FYI, I bought the car with the shift problem hoping that the solenoids would fix it.

 

[Husam]

I did not. I don't have a scanner capable of doing that.

As for a worn out valve body - are those available as a standalone part or is going used the only option other than replacing the whole trans? Anyone know the part #?

EDIT: I found it, part #46200-4J210. Roughly $1300, or about $1000 if you feel it's safe to order from a Kia parts retailer.

Attempt to perform AT Reset via an OBD scanner and AT adaptation and see how it feels.. If it still does not improve, you may consider buying a new Valve Body.

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[Husam]

Not sure if this was addressed in another post and if yes, accept my apologies.

The mystery about transmission hard shift is finally revealed.

Hyundai issued a TSB for HARSH 2~3, 3~4 OR 4~5 UPSHIFT back in November 2021.

The culprits are two solenoids which Hyundai upgraded and they need to be installed instead of the old ones.

The bulletin describes the procedure to replace the 35R and 4&OD solenoids for as shift flare and/or harsh shift during the 2~3, 3~4 or 4~5 upshift.

Attached is the TSB copy which illustrates the part numbers.


Good luck.

Husam.

EDIT: first make sure you've got the throttle body cleaned up and the fuel injection system along with the fuel injectors cleaned up too. Also make sure to have the catalytic convertor cleaned up. These are all factors that impact the parameters values in terms of torque / power that the TCM receives and applies its logic to the shift points.

 

[PW405]

Attempt to perform AT Reset via an OBD scanner and AT adaptation and see how it feels.. If it still does not improve, you may consider buying a new Valve Body.

Will performing the TCM Reset procedure potentially help? I downloaded this picture from (I think?) earlier in the thread:

 

[Husam]

Check this, it helped unexpectedly:

Post in thread 'Intake valve cleaning from carbon build up' Intake valve cleaning from carbon build up

 

[srobak]

That has nothing to do with the flaring shift changes.

 

[Husam]

That has nothing to do with the flaring shift changes.

It does. The power and torque delivery to the drive train is optimized based on preset or learned TCM and ECM parameters.

 

[srobak]

You're talking about minimal impact to torque based upon carbon buildup, while the engine is in the higher RPM and torque bands. A couple of pound feet of torque is not going to trip up the flaring like that. You can duplicate conditions like that by being super-ginger on the throttle and it wont generate the random flares. Besides - it would learn the difference as it went over time and adjust accordingly. If the trans or the TCM were that delicate - it would have shit itself by 10 or 20k.

 

[Wrath]

Can someone confirm that the shift solenoid replacement fix works on the 4.6L model? In the downloadable document it only lists the parts for 3.8 and 5.0 engines, and I wasn't sure if that was because 4.6 and 5.0 have the same part number, or if the author was lazy, or if it doesn't work for the 4.6.

 

[Husam]

Can someone confirm that the shift solenoid replacement fix works on the 4.6L model? In the downloadable document it only lists the parts for 3.8 and 5.0 engines, and I wasn't sure if that was because 4.6 and 5.0 have the same part number, or if the author was lazy, or if it doesn't work for the 4.6.

I cannot confirm but its worth a try if you have the same symptoms and if the entire valve body is still okay.

 

[Wrath]

I cannot confirm but its worth a try if you have the same symptoms and if the entire valve body is still okay.

I'll do some research first, in the meantime if anyone has done this with a 4.6L can they pls make themselves known

 

[srobak]

Considering it is a completely different transmission in the 4.6 - I'm highly doubtful. The same trans is shared by the 3.8 and 5.0, starting for the 15 model year.