Price of ZF Transmission Fluid (CRAZY)

[ctrcbob]

ZF North America (1-847-478-6868, talk with Steve) says that you can get the fluid for the 6HP26 Transmission (M-1375.4) from Erickson Industries (1-800-388-4418) for
$3X.xx a quart.

I get my information from www.bobistheoilguy.com and no, I'm not that Bob.

 

[fun2drive]

A lot of ZF transmissions used in BMWs use Esso 71141 which is 17 bucks a liter and most BMW transmissions are not supposed to be changed either but are lifetime.

Esso 71141 is a very slippery synthetic and I change my transmissions on both my M3 BMWs every 30K or so miles.

Nothing is lifetime but if you only keep the car for a 100K why bother. If you are like me and keep a car for a lot of miles and a long time than you do change the lifetime fluid.

Isn't the tranny fluid they recommend this Esso 71141? If so Amsoil does have a synthetic fluid many in the BMW world have used with good results than the Esso.

Curious as could not find the M. xxxx posted fluid on bobistheoilguy as to what it could be....

 

[Mark_888]

Here is an article from Shell Lubricants:

13 April 2006| Source: Shell Lubricants

The automotive components specialists at Shell lubricants companies have developed a bespoke oil for automotive components company, ZF. The lubricant, Shell ATF M-1375.4, has been used by ZF to develop a state-of-the-art six speed automatic transmission, which is used in the new BMW six and seven series, Audi A8, VW Phaeton and new Jaguar models.

ZF Friedrichshafen AG is an internationally active automotive industry supplier specialising in driveline and chassis systems. The company operates 119 plants located in 25 countries and has nearly 53,500 employees. Shell Lubricants have a long term relationship with ZF, supplying the organisation with factory plant maintenance products. In 1999, this relationship resulted in Shell and ZF developing a partnership approach and a joined-up research and development programme.

Comments Manfred Buksch, Head of Development of Automatic Transmissions at ZF: “Shell Lubricants are a long-term partner that provide us with first class technology that enables us to improve our products. Their excellent facilities, people and technical expertise ensure that we can always rely on them to innovate and add value; that’s why we view Shell Lubricants as a strategic partner rather than just a supplier.”

Thanks to their strong relationship with ZF, Shell Lubricants were invited to submit proposals for working with the company to develop a transmission fluid for a new six-speed transmission for passenger cars at ZF’s Saarbrucken site in Germany. In order to secure the contract, Shell Lubricants had to demonstrate they had the necessary logistics in place and the production facilities and technology available to produce high volumes of the product. Shell’s response was development of Shell ATF M – 1375.4, manufactured at its specialist blending plant, Grasbrook in Germany. As a result, Shell was awarded an exclusive contract to supply up to 6,500 fluid tonnes per year of Shell ATF M – 1375.4.

Says Juergen Roehler, Shell Lubricants, Automotive Components Sector and Brand Manager: “Throughout our relationship with ZF we have demonstrated a solutions-driven approach that has ensured we have responded to their commercial requirements with high performance products and excellent service levels. When ZF outlined their need for a lubricant that would help them further their development of advanced technology we were delighted to offer a bespoke solution to answer their product need and to utilise our blending plant and distribution resources to ensure efficient supply.”

 

[Mark_888]

Price of ZF Transmission Fluid.
It is not Hyundai's own price.
It is a ZF's price.

ZF specifies the fluid. The price is set by Shell who makes it in Germany and sells it under their own label (maybe), or by Hyundai/BMW/Land Rover et al who sells it under their own label.

 

[Mark_888]

Here is a deal:

Land Rover synthetic ATF for ZF - $80 (Corona)
Genuine land rover synth ATF fluid part # LRN13754 same as Shell M-1375.4. 8 brand new unopened Quarts 80.00
http://inlandempire.craigslist.org/pts/1460665045.html

 

[jailer]

I think this is the stuff guys. Go research it.
http://www.google.com/products?rlz=1C1GGLS_enUS344US344&sourceid=chrome&q=pentosin+transmission+fluid&um=1&ie=UTF-8&ei=BWQKS6WyOMyVtgf-gs2KBA&sa=X&oi=product_result_group&ct=title&resnum=4&ved=0CCoQrQQwAw

Even cheaper?
http://www.worldimpex.com/parts/pentosin-automat-transmission-fluid-1-ltr-pentosin_249116.html

 

[ctrcbob]

I think this is the stuff guys. Go research it.
http://www.google.com/products?rlz=1C1GGLS_enUS344US344&sourceid=chrome&q=pentosin+transmission+fluid&um=1&ie=UTF-8&ei=BWQKS6WyOMyVtgf-gs2KBA&sa=X&oi=product_result_group&ct=title&resnum=4&ved=0CCoQrQQwAw

Even cheaper?
http://www.worldimpex.com/parts/pentosin-automat-transmission-fluid-1-ltr-pentosin_249116.html

Those are not the stuff.

 

[jailer]

Those are not the stuff.

Like I said. Go research it. It looks like others are using it.

 

[Mark_888]

Like I said. Go research it. What did you come up with?

The required oil is Shell M-1375.4 or equivalent. Have you found someone who claims that they have an equivalent AT Fluid?

All of this is a bit ridiculous, considering that that the AT fluid does not need to be changed for at least 100,000 miles, and the procedure to change it is designed to discourage anyone but a dealer from doing it.

 

[jailer]

The required oil is Shell M-1375.4 or equivalent. Have you found someone who claims that they have an equivalent AT Fluid?

All of this is a bit ridiculous, considering that that the AT fluid does not need to be changed for at least 100,000 miles, and the procedure to change it is designed to discourage anyone but a dealer from doing it.

I know mark, I agree, you should'nt mess with it until the 100k mark. Shell? Hyundai may point to that, but I dunno.... It's probably nothing more than a business transaction.

Yes, alot of BMW guys use the Pentosin in their ZF. Check it out.

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[jailer]

Here it is from Global Auto Parts, (although pricey), and their description:
"Pentosin ATF1 is a fully synthetic high performance ATF for lifetime application in automatic gear boxes. For all ZF 3HP, 4HP, 5HP, and 6HP transmissions. Light brown color fluid."
http://www.globalautoparts.biz/pentosin_ATF.html

 

[ttsig]

I'm not really sure what the discussion is about at this point. Not only does the fluid probably never need to be changed in the typical usable life, ctrcbob has already listed several options for M-1375.4 equivalents, including some that are widely available like the Castrol Import Multi-Vehicle Automatic Transmission Fluid, which you can typically pick up at your local parts store for $4-5/quart (they have it at my local Autozone for $4.49/quart). It specifically list meeting the requirements for Shell M1375.4 for BMW, Land Rover, and Jaguar as well as Aisin 3309 fluid as well. In other words, I think we've already found fluids that a reasonably priced, and that's assuming you ever need to change it, which I think would be very rare.

I'm not even sold on the idea that it would need to be changed at 100,000 miles. I've driven many, many vehicles far more that 100,000 miles, and they didn't have fancy, expensive, never needs to be changed transmission fluid but I've never had a transmission problem because of it. Actually, the only transmission problem I ever had was with my Ford Ranger that went wacky with only 40,000 miles. The replacement transmission ran another 175,000 miles without fluid changes. I suspect if they say the fluid never needs to be changed, they probably mean that in the reasonably expected lifespan of the vehicle it won't need to be changed. Since the vehicle has a 100,000 mile powertrain warranty, it's not unreasonable to believe that even an average lifespan would be 150,000 miles or more. Just my opinion of course, but mine won't get changed unless something goes wrong, and I expect to get 175,000-200,000 miles on my Genny, in the next 7-10 years.

 

[Mark_888]

I know mark, I agree, you should'nt mess with it until the 100k mark. Shell? Hyundai may point to that, but I dunno.... It's probably nothing more than a business transaction.

Yes, alot of BMW guys use the Pentosin in their ZF. Check it out.

Business transaction? Hyundai had nothing to do with it. The "transaction" was done between ZF and and Shell and is documented in a post I made earlier in this thread. Hyundai just uses the fluid that ZF specifies, which is Shell M-1375.4.

Just because some BMW owners use Pentosin doesn't mean it is the same oil, and not all BMW's use the same ZF tranny as the Genesis (although some do). I would never change the fluid myself (I have seen the instructions and it is not for do-it-your-self'ers). Not to mention that I don't have the V8.

 

[jailer]

Just because some BMW owners use Pentosin doesn't mean it is the same oil, and not all BMW's use the same ZF tranny as the Genesis (although some do). I would never change the fluid myself (I have seen the instructions and it is not for do-it-your-self'ers). Not to mention that I don't have the V8.

Yeah, I'm not saying it is the same oil, but an equivalent or comparable. Go research it.
Of course not all bmw's use the same zf. Nobody said they did, but I know my BMW mechanic in Southern CA has been using Royal Purple for every single bmw/mercedes that comes through his shop for years. That is an "equivalent".
Do the mfg's specify that stuff?

 

[jailer]

I'm not really sure what the discussion is about at this point. .

Yeah, it just went on a tangent tt.

 

[Reverend Sam]

I know I'm bumping an ancient thread here, but I'm here to help! I don't have a Genesis, but I do have a Jaguar XK8 that uses the exact same ZF 6HP26 transmission that the Genesis uses. I stumbled across this thread while looking for a replacement transmission pan for my Jag. Over on a Jag forum where I'm a member we have solved the problem of the ridiculously expensive ZF fluid! There are several options:

First, you can buy genuine ZF fluid online for about $17 per liter. Here's a link: http://www.thectsc.com/index.php?p=catalog&parent=58&pg=1

However, if you still think $17 per liter is ridiculous like many of us on the jag forum did, you can use Mercon SP fluid. You can buy Mercon SP online for about $5 per quart. Mercon SP is specified for use in the 2007-2009 Lincoln Navigators, and the Navigators use the exact same ZF 6HP26 transmission as your Hyundais and my Jaguar!

There are also many other cars that use the same ZF 6HP26 transmission. Here's a link to a Wikipedia article which lists all of the cars that use that transmission. If you don't want to use the ZF fluid or the Mercon fluid, just look up those cars and see what transmission fluid is specified for them. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ZF_6HP26_transmission#6HP26

In regards to "sealed for life", don't believe it. Many of the members of the Jag forum have had transmission failures in the 80K mile range. Unfortunately we don't have 100K mile warranties, therefore when the transmission bites the dust at 80K, we have to eat the repair costs. The transmissions that have been repaired have all had black, worn-out transmission fluid in them. This might not matter to those of you who are going to sell your cars before they get to 100K, however if you're planning on keeping the car past 100K, it would be beneficial to get your transmission fluid changed every 30K to 50K miles. It will greatly extend the life of the transmission. And changing the fluid is not that difficult. I'll post a link to the instructions a little later.

The link I posted above also sells kits to change the pan, filter, and magnets in the transmission. The kit minus the fluid is about $130. I found this forum while looking for a cheaper alternative. I thought maybe the Hyundai version would be cheaper.

Hope this info helps...

 

[STREETS]

Great post my Jag friend! Many thanks from the V8 ZF owners. Look forward to other link.

 

[ctrcbob]

Sam,
Great information. My buddy who has an 05 XJR changed his fluid with Mobil-1, and it is working out great for him. He is also on jaguarforums.com

 

[Reverend Sam]

Hey Bob, you live in Roswell? I grew up there! I live in North Carolina now, but my wife and I were there for one night last summer. You may recognize this place:

And the instructions on how to check the fluid level are attached at the bottom of this post. Draining the fluid is pretty obvious, you just unscrew the plug and let the fluid drain out. To refill it, you reinsert the drain plug (obviously) and then unscrew the fill plug, which is on the right side of the transmission towards the back. The fill hole is surprisingly low, and that's why the engine has to be running when you fill the transmission. With the engine running and the transmission in gear the fluid is sucked up and out of the pan. If you turn off the engine while trying to fill it, the fluid will come pouring out of the fill hole (don't ask me how I know).

To get the fluid level correct, the transmission has to be at the correct temperature, which is between 35 and 50 degrees Celsius. The attached instructions say to use a fancy diagnostic tool plugged into the OBDII port to measure the temp, but an IR thermometer aimed at the bottom of the transmission fluid pan does the job just as well, and you can get an IR thermometer for $25 at Harbor Freight Tools. You'll need a way to pump the fluid up into the transmission fill hole, because all of this is done from below. A $15 garden/bug sprayer from Home Depot works fine if you take the spray nozzle off of the end of the hose, or you could buy a $7.99 hand pump from Harbor Freight.

After that, it's just a matter of pumping the fluid in, letting the transmission warm up to the correct range, which will cause the fluid to expand and come back out of the fill hole, and then plugging the hole when the fluid as at the correct temp.

Hmmm... the pdf instruction file is too large to allow me to attach it. I'll post a link to it and hope that works. Here's the link: http://jaguarforums.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=7780&d=1297182563

If that doesn't work, just go to this thread on jaguarforums.com. The instructions are in post #25, although the rest of the thread is a good read, too.

 

[Sayantsi]

Fwiw, always open the fill hole before you drain the oil. You don't want to get stuck with an empty case and no way to fill it!