In the end, decided to go another way...

[foleydb]

So I was all set to buy a 2012 R-spec, but then there was the thread about the passenger side front seat not elevating. I knew that was going to be a problem for my petite wife, but she wouldn't be in the car much, and I figured I could live with it. Then the water spilling into the trunk bothered me a little too. But, in the end, I decided to buy the R-spec for cash at the end of this month (July 30 or 31), and figured I'd pay $40,500 or maybe a grand more at most (I have USAA, HyundaiCircle through the Think Tank, competing car - my Honda Odyssey believe it or not, and military discount - I was in for four years in the 80's and have a DD-214).

Then the MB salesman at MB Dealer #1, who I had talked to some time ago when I looked over their cars, called me a couple days ago, and I told him I was going to go with the R-spec. He asked if I had ever considered leasing a car, and when I said I hadn't, we talked a bit. He ran some numbers on a new Mercedes Benz E350 RWD, and sent me this:

• At 7,500 miles per year with only $2590.89 down you'd be in the car for $594.14 per month.
• At 10,000 miles per year with only $2613.00 at signing you'd be in the car for $616.25 per month.

I then went and talked to the MB Dealer #2 right next to where my new house will be that we're moving to in three weeks (only a few miles from where I am now). They had a much better deal, which was for an E350 with "4matic" all wheel drive with ZERO down at $562.11 a months for 24 months for 7,500 miles per year (my commute is short). For 10K miles/year it was $590. Interestingly, the price for a three year lease was substantially more per month, over $600, which made clear they had a very special deal going on at this moment for 24 month leases.

Then I called Hyundai. Their lease was 36 months, 12K miles/year, and $550/month for an R-spec, and $389/month for a 3.8 Genesis, which I wasn't interested in. Their leasing didn't have adjustable mileage, didn't have adjustable lengths, and didn't take into account USAA or HyundaiCircle pricing. SO, the R-spec cost was very similar to the MB (which was going to have a final price of $49,500 vs. the R-spec that I figured I could get for $40,500 maybe). That was a lame lease price I thought, but it probably reflects the difference in residual value between the R-spec and the E350. On that, the original MB salesman at Dealer #1 wrote:

• The residual value for a Hyndai Genisis at 31 months is only 47%, while the residual on the E350 after 30 months is an industry leading 60%.

I don't know if it's true or not, and it doesn't really matter, since the math tells the story. So I talked again to MB dealer #1 again, gave them the specifics from the car and deal offered by MB Dealer #2, and they came back with $528/month, zero down, 7.5K miles/year, no 4matic, all taxes/tags included, or $550 for the 4matic version.

Then I went back in to the MB dealer #2 near my new house this afternoon, and they agreed to match MB dealer #1's improved offer and lease me the 4matic with the extra $740 in options (rear spoiler $300/split rear seat $440) for $550. This is EXACTLY the same as the R-spec lease cost, but I get a new car in two years (24 month lease), but less miles (7.5K vs 12K, which I don't need). I gave him the first month's payment as a deposit, and will take delivery on July 30, right after I move and have a place to park it and will need two cars.

I really liked the R-spec, and I liked the idea of 429 horsepower vs. the E350's 302 hp, but the E350 wasn't sluggish, and I thought how often do I ever bury the pedal? Maybe if I had 429 hp I might more often, but I can live without the R-spec's zoom factor, and 302 hp isn't a pedal car.

At the end of the line today, I liked the R-spec, but for the EXACT same price as the MB E350 with AWD, I just couldn't get there.

On the money front, $550 per month for a $49,500 E350 (MSRP $58,605) means that given the tax is included, I would have to make 92.86 monthly payments (7 years, 9 months) of $550 if I had a ZERO interest loan to pay off the $51,074 price (includes Virginia sales tax). That's unbelievable. The math also means I am basically renting the car for $18.08/day. Or you can figure it that I'm driving it for $0.88/mile. (At 12K miles/year the R-spec would be $0.55/mile, but I don't drive anywhere near 12K/year.) How this can be possible, I can't imagine. At this price for the lease I feel like I'm stealing the car almost.

The MB dealer is .8 mile from my house, they said please bring it often for us to wash and vacuum it (and they meant it). Always a loaner car at MB if I ever need it, and probably won't, but we'll see. MB also has a loyalty program for people who lease, and I may well go back every two years near the end of the model year in July, when they really want to move cars off the lot, for many more years, but we'll see.

I had decided to get the R-spec, and this all started when I told the MB dealer I wasn't going with MB. But, with the amazing knock-down prices in July on MB's, and especially on MB leases on top of that, I decided I'd be a fool not to take advantage.

I sold a 97 MB S500 three years ago to buy our current minivan when the baby arrived, and another in the mid-1990's in London. I've also had a Hyundai before in London in the early-1990's, and despite complaints about quality from that era, the car was completely indestructible (a woman had to make a turn right in front of me - I t-boned her - to kill that car.) I like the determination and the moxie of Hyundai, and the Koreans more generally (I've been to Korea a number of times when I was in Japan for the Navy in the 1980's, and the Koreans are great allies).

If the Hyundai leasing folks had more flexibility, I might still be picking up my new R-spec instead of the E350 in three weeks.

I did a LOT of research using this forum, and kicked in some cash to support the message board. I tried to ask few questions, and greatly appreciated the many answers so many of you provided to me and many others. I found and posted the Hyundai Genesis Owner's Manuals on my skydrive, and linked to them here on the board, and I'll leave them there for everyone to download as needed. This VERY LONG post is mainly to thank you all and show you the respect you deserve by not just disappearing without a trace. I felt obliged to explain why it didn't work out at the last minute. I also wanted to provide real feedback on a real decision making process where Hyundai had me in the bag, but just couldn't quite close the deal. Whether there are any lessons here for anyone (other than for me of course, where there are many), is for someone else to decide.

Thanks everyone!

 

[EXBMWGUY]

Let us all observe a moment of silence as you cross over to the dark side . . .

 

[427435]

Leasing is the worst financial way to be in a car unless you can deduct it for business.

 

[Philth]

Leasing is the worst financial way to be in a car unless you can deduct it for business.

Ding ding.

 

[TJPark01]

Leasing is the worst financial way to be in a car unless you can deduct it for business.

While I agree, for some people it works out cause they are on fixed income from a pension or retirement and want to have the luxury of a new car, no repairs, full warranty, never have to buy tires and can afford it. However, for most, especially those who are younger, it's a terrible idea.

To the OP, good luck, I had the 2009 E350 as the lead dog, when I went shopping but I just can't get a Mercedes with plastic seats. I ended up buying a 535i. The new DI engine is much better than the 2011 and the car is a tank, both are good cars, but I think the MB will have a much nicer ride and definitely more of a luxury ownership experience.

 

[jmatero]

Leasing is the worst financial way to be in a car unless you can deduct it for business.

Or if you like driving a new car every 2 years. The thing with Benz is that your rarely keep the car the whole term of the lease. They almost always call you 6-12 months before lease end to seem you want another new Benz and they cover the remaining payments.

I'm in the same boat actually. Was all set for the R-spec but you can drive away in the E350 Sport in the $500's per month with little down for 24 months.

I'm torn because, while it lacks the raw power of the Genny, the transmission is superior with regard to shifting, you get paddle shifters, and the seats are far more comfortable. And the MB "fake" leather is great and holds up better than any leather I've seen. Also, the OPis right, the residual is ridiculous on the E350.

BUT... If I was paying cash/financing (and still might) AND planned to keep it for at least 5 years (which I never do) the Genny is the deal of the century.

I will say that a 2-yr lease in the E350 would end just in time for the next Genny so that could work out nicely.

 

[Mark_888]

Leasing is the worst financial way to be in a car unless you can deduct it for business.

You don't have to lease a car for it to be tax deductible. The depreciation expense of a purchased capital asset is as least as high (usually higher) than the lease expense, although admittedly it takes a bit more accounting to figure it out (but Turbo Tax can easily do it).

The real question is how long does the owner plan to keep the car and what selling expenses might be incurred (if a car is purchased) if the owner actually wants to obtain a brand new car after 24 months. The MB lease terms are probably not so great if the owner wants to keep the car after the lease expires.

I also only drive about 7500 miles per year, and find it a bit ridiculous to trade in a car with only 15,000 mile on it. Actually, I would consider any car that would not last at least 60,00 miles and still be in excellent condition (if maintained properly) to be a POS.

It is likely that the MB lease terms are favorable because of the high resale vale, or because the auto manufacturer is subsidizing the lease (in error) because of overly optimistic resale estimates. I assume that MB does a pretty brisk business on sales of 2 year old used vehicles as compared to Hyundai and they may be correct about its significantly higher resale value.

 

[sooththetruth]

Two viewpoints to share.

1. My father has a 2012 E350, paid cash, $57K and I don't know if that included taxes. He is retired, and doesn't like to talk money specifics. I have driven the car back to back with my 2010 3.8.

FINAL IMPRESSION: The superior quality of the MB engineering comes thru when driven back to back.

I'm not a financial person. I pay for my cars cash and keep them 9 years on average, so the Genny in my case was a no brainer.

Ironically, my father thinks the Genny is incredible, and bought the MB because he is 79, his new wife is 72, and his wife likes panache. Nothing more need be said. The MB trunk and back seat are pathetically small compared to the Genny. But the feel of switchgear, the handling over rough pavement of the MB was so superior to the Genny that when I got back from our daytrip to Savannah, and I had to drive my Genny home, my beloved car felt like my first cheap car I had in high school. (This experience made me start looking at other cars). On the other hand, the cost to own a MB long term will likely increase incrementally after the car has 50,000 miles on it so:

2. If leasing is your preferred method of owning (come on, I want a new car every 2-3 years, and I hate selling my car, so I end up taking the hit on a trade in. The MAIN reason I keep a car so long is that I dread buying a new car) then the MB is the right choice here, hands down, if the tiny trunk and back seat are not issues. The baby will not outgrow the backseat of the MB in 2 years. If he has the money to get a NEW car every two years, then his purchase is not purely practical. BUT IF PRACTICALITY WERE THE ONLY REASON TO BUY A CAR, then most of us would not be buying Genny's. We'd be buying minivans or Honda Fits.

Mr Foley went through his decision making process, thoughtfully, and there is no doubt he now will have a car he will enjoy driving. It feels like a smaller car, and will give a great ride on his (estimated) 1.5 mile drive to work.

I put 18K miles a year on my car because I love to drive. The irony is that the number of miles I drive on vacations, weekends, etc would mean I should drive a "driver's" car. The Genny is an excellent automobile, and a good compromise for me, given my circumstances. I keep cars, and despise high maintenance cars. I consider ALL german cars high maintenance, and so I think they are not true "luxury" cars. I would consider the high quality Asian cars true Luxury because you can almost forget about niggling repairs down the road. Mr Foley removed that problem from the equation by the two year lease. In his position, I think I would have made the exact same decision.

 

[LA Genesis]

The resale value of the MB is the reason why they can be leased for less. foleydb is getting a much better car for the money. I'm not a big fan of leasing but my experience with Genesis is making me rethink the idea. I believe I'm going to want to trade my 2012 in two years and I fear I'll take a serious bath doing it. It will have about 30,000 mles on it then.

Since foleydb wanted to lease hge clearly made the right call given his choices between the MB and Genesis. Best of luck and thanks for supporting this forum. I wouldn't mind seeing a pic of your new car.

 

[Ruissimo]

Once the decision to lease has been made, it's really a toss-up as to what car to choose. I personally like the looks of the Genesis a little better, but I'd love to drive an MB at some point.

The best part of the lease is the part where you don't have to dish out thousands and thousands of dollars in repairs.

Good luck! See you in 2014, when you come back home.

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Help support this site so it can continue supporting you!

 

[Big_tugg]

Me and my wife only keep our vehicles for about 3 years, so we lease in order to not take that trade in hit. My wife leased a BMW 335D and I leased a genesis 5.0 non r spec, couple years from now we will take it back and get something new again

 

[sooththetruth]

I'd like to hear about the 335D, vs the R. The driving and usability experience comparo.

 

[nextcar]

to the OP, i'm sure you'll be happy with the E350.
last year, i test drove the E350, E550, 535, genny 3.8, and 4.6.
in order of preference, which i based mainly on powertrain smoothness/torque, and cabin noise on the freeway, this is how i ranked them:

1. my favorite was the E550.
2. genny 4.6
3. 535i
4. E350
5. genny 3.8

needless to say, i'm a big fan of V8s.
if you wanted to make the smartest financial choice, i think you should have bought the genny 3.8 or 4.6 rather than the R spec, with cash.
i would never do a lease with less than 12k miles/yr, as circumstances can change and you never know when you might need to drive more miles, especially if you are young, working, and moving around.
also keep in mind that the Tau V8 (whether 4.6 or 5.0) is notably smoother and torquier than the 3.5 L V6 in the E350.

 

[Big_tugg]

I'd like to hear about the 335D, vs the R. The driving and usability experience comparo.

Sure! I drove my wife car to dealer to test drive the 5.0 what I noticed:

Seats are more comfortable in 5.0
Steering is looser in 5.0
Sound system is better in 5.0
Nav seems like a cheap knock off of beamer
Beamer seems to have more low end power but I believe 5.0 can run the Beamer down
Cornering the Beamer is better but it is a smaller car
Breaking wayyyy better in Beamer
AC way better in Beamer
The automatic wipers works better in Beamer, my wife always jokes that a pissed on my windsheild because it comes on for no reason
MPG better in Beamer

All I can think of right now, if u have any questions please ask. 5.0 honestly reminds me of my Lexus GS 430! I had the V1 CTS-V and for the 5.0 to have 427hp something is wrong somewhere.

 

[427435]

Me and my wife only keep our vehicles for about 3 years, so we lease in order to not take that trade in hit. My wife leased a BMW 335D and I leased a genesis 5.0 non r spec, couple years from now we will take it back and get something new again

????????????????????


So who do you think takes the trade-in hit?? It sure isn't the dealer.

And a couple of years from now, you will have no equity. Do you also just rent a place to live?

 

[Dragon64]

Let us all observe a moment of silence as you cross over to the dark side . . .

LOL.......

Why Mercedes ?

Of all the evil empire cars......not THAT one

 

[Big_tugg]

????????????????????


So who do you think takes the trade-in hit?? It sure isn't the dealer.

And a couple of years from now, you will have no equity. Do you also just rent a place to live?

No equity is better than negative. No I own multiple homes...

 

[HughH]

No equity is better than negative. No I own multiple homes...

I've been leasing my cars every three years for quite a while now.

Th last time I purchased a car was a BMW 330i and the only reason I broke even at sale time was that we had picked it up in Munich. You get a flat 7% discount, plus what other discount you can get from local dealer. Plus I only had around 15,000 miles and the BMW dealer really wanted it. I hate the process of going through a sale.

This time, I am planning on keeping the Lexus ES350 due to the low residual versus the amount the car will be worth, with less than 15,000 on the clock.
This will be the first time I will keep a leased car. Then again, if my Lexus dealer comes up with another great deal, I might lease a 2013 ES350.
Or, If I keep the Lexus, might trade it in later for a Volvo S80.

I like having several options and I also like not having to worry about being out of warranty!

 

[Big_tugg]

I've been leasing my cars every three years for quite a while now.

Th last time I purchased a car was a BMW 330i and the only reason I broke even at sale time was that we had picked it up in Munich. You get a flat 7% discount, plus what other discount you can get from local dealer. Plus I only had around 15,000 miles and the BMW dealer really wanted it. I hate the process of going through a sale.

This time, I am planning on keeping the Lexus ES350 due to the low residual versus the amount the car will be worth, with less than 15,000 on the clock.
This will be the first time I will keep a leased car. Then again, if my Lexus dealer comes up with another great deal, I might lease a 2013 ES350.
Or, If I keep the Lexus, might trade it in later for a Volvo S80.

I like having several options and I also like not having to worry about being out of warranty!

With the tech these days, I see you upgrading! Also tech and a nightmare to own without warranty!

 

[HughH]

With the tech these days, I see you upgrading! Also tech and a nightmare to own without warranty!

A car without warranty is like going around naked!