“Evidence EVs are a fading fad is ‘rolling in fast’ as Tesla, GM and Ford slash prices“

[PMCErnie]

I bought an electric hot dog cooker once.

The building consensus on EV’s:

Evidence EVs are a fading fad is ‘rolling in fast’ as Tesla, GM and Ford slash prices

EV doubters like Toyota bet on hybrids and now look prescient.

www.marketwatch.com

 

[GeeVee7T]

President Dwight D. Eisenhower, who looked great in a 60-horsepower jeep, once warned that “you don’t lead by hitting people over the head: That’s assault, not leadership.”

I honestly feel we should have done at least one generation of Hybrids first - a much easier transition for ALL stakeholders and consumers alike. We are being "lead" into EV submission with 2035 deadlines, and I can't see where that ends - everyone in cars they hate to try and keep charged, or will flipping that switch give the industry and infrastructure boost it needs to finally support and engineer the vehicles people want? I know it's a catch-22: If nobody buys EVs because charging and capacity is a p.i t.a., then industry will be unable to improve charging and capacity... but until enough early adopters or government forced initiatives figure out how to match or best the range and convenience of ICE, the road to progress will be very bumpy for awhile yet.

 

[Husky]

Hybrids have been around for two decades. People have had plenty of "transition time". Too many people preferred to just look down their noses and make fun of them.
As far as EVs being a "fading fad", not a chance. Reports of it's death are greatly exaggerated, as they say. (They said the same thing about ICE back in the day.) There's no stopping technology.
As for that highly biased opinion piece in the link above, it's interesting that the author talks so much about government subsidies for EVs and infrastructure, but never mentions the Trillions of dollars in government subsidies that the fossil fuel industry has received over the last 50+ years.
The rate of increase in EV sales may be down, but sales are still increasing overall.
We just leased our first EV (Kia EV6 AWD) two days ago, and we absolutely love it. Fast, smooth, quiet and we can charge it with our house at a great savings over buying gas. What's not to like?

 

[Alfer]

Are you charging via just a regular 110 power outlet or did you pay the big bucks to get a proper charger?

 

[Husky]

I'll save you the trouble and answer my own question. Range. Sure, it would be great to have a range of 400 miles instead of 280 (or being realistic, probably less than that in the cold weather). But that's rarely an issue, since 95% of the time the trips are much, much shorter.

 

[Alfer]

That low range and the idea that you have no true idea of how far you can go daily based on weather etc. to me just isn't worth it. Add to that if you have to buy a $2k+ home charging set up.

 

[Husky]

I paid $550 to buy a name brand fast charger, and another $550 to have an electrician wire in a 240v/50A outlet in my garage. So sure, it cost me "big bucks" to be able to fully charge the car in about 7 hours at home.
At a time when many/most car companies charge $500 or more to get a car in almost any color other than non-metallic white, and charge thousands for other popular options, I think it would be disingenuous to make the cost of installing a proper charger sound unreasonable. How many people are walking around with $1000 cell phones that they replace every time Apple comes out with a new one?

 

[GeeVee7T]

Hybrids have been around for two decades. People have had plenty of "transition time". Too many people preferred to just look down their noses and make fun of them.
As far as EVs being a "fading fad", not a chance. Reports of it's death are greatly exaggerated, as they say. (They said the same thing about ICE back in the day.) There's no stopping technology.
As for that highly biased opinion piece in the link above, it's interesting that the author talks so much about government subsidies for EVs and infrastructure, but never mentions the Trillions of dollars in government subsidies that the fossil fuel industry has received over the last 50+ years.
The rate of increase in EV sales may be down, but sales are still increasing overall.
We just leased our first EV (Kia EV6 AWD) two days ago, and we absolutely love it. Fast, smooth, quiet and we can charge it with our house at a great savings over buying gas. What's not to like?

And over the span of those 20 years, we got the Prius, Camry, Insight and Fusion. Awesome.

Seriously though, my request was more to the point of wondering where we would be if the same effort, expense and government support and sanctions had gone into insisting upon the development of spectacular hybrids instead of forcing EVs before the infrastructure was ready.

As for, "What's not to like, " the list is short and wide for me, but clearly depends on individual driving styles and needs:

. I need to be able to add 100% range capacity in under 10mins. 5mins preferred.

. I need to know that my range is not fatally dependent upon my driving style, feature consumption (ac, heater, etc.), terrain, or the temperature outside.

. I need to know, in a worst case scenario, I can add range after a short walk to a fuel source

. I need to know that my fuel source is robust enough to survive normal use injury like dents, dings and scratches and not require $15k to repair if so damaged

. I would prefer to not need to continuously add range to my vehicle using an extension cord while parked in my driveway, or being forced to park in my garage.

Just a few off the top of my head. Don't get me wrong - lots of wicked performing, looking, and featured EVs out there, on this I do not disagree in the least, and I have no doubt some of those already meet the needs of many of their owners. However, for my needs, preferences and driving style, I prefer to be the master of my machine instead of the other way around - wasn't it Isaac Asimov who mused on that? Something to the effect that humans used to use machines to perform work (i.e. a horse drawn plow) but now machines use humans to do work (i.e. EVs...)

Until EVs and the requisite infrastructure can meet my needs, I'm just not motivated to slave myself to bridging that gap - nor do I see the point in doing so. (Climate effects notwithstanding - as then we would need to also discuss the costs of building and shipping batteries...)

 

[Husky]

Personally, we typically fill up our cars every week at about 250 miles of mixed driving, so it's not much of a change. In fact, it's much more convenient since we won't have to stop for gas every week, to pour 10-12 gallons of fossil fuel into the tank. The electricity also costs half as much as the gas. That savings alone will pay for the home charger setup in a little over a year.
Also, no oil and filter changes, no transmission fluid changes, no diff fluid changes, no spark plug changes, no belts, etc.....
As for knowing what the range will be, the car tells you! There's a big number in the middle of the dash display that constantly shows you the range you have left. It's not a mystery.

 

[Husky]

And over the span of those 20 years, we got the Prius, Camry, Insight and Fusion. Awesome.

Seriously though, my request was more to the point of wondering where we would be if the same effort, expense and government support and sanctions had gone into insisting upon the development of spectacular hybrids instead of forcing EVs before the infrastructure was ready.

As for, "What's not to like, " the list is short and wide for me, but clearly depends on individual driving styles and needs:

. I need to be able to add 100% range capacity in under 10mins. 5mins preferred.

. I need to know that my range is not fatally dependent upon my driving style, feature consumption (ac, heater, etc.), terrain, or the temperature outside.

. I need to know, in a worst case scenario, I can add range after a short walk to a fuel source

. I need to know that my fuel source is robust enough to survive normal use injury like dents, dings and scratches and not require $15k to repair if so damaged

. I would prefer to not need to continuously add range to my vehicle using an extension cord while parked in my driveway, or being forced to park in my garage.

Just a few off the top of my head. Don't get me wrong - lots of wicked performing, looking, and featured EVs out there, on this I do not disagree in the least, and I have no doubt some of those already meet the needs of many of their owners. However, for my needs, preferences and driving style, I prefer to be the master of my machine instead of the other way around - wasn't it Isaac Asimov who mused on that? Something to the effect that humans used to use machines to perform work (i.e. a horse drawn plow) but now machines use humans to do work (i.e. EVs...)

Until EVs and the requisite infrastructure can meet my needs, I'm just not motivated to slave myself to bridging that gap - nor do I see the point in doing so. (Climate effects notwithstanding - as then we would need to also discuss the costs of building and shipping batteries...)

We're obviously on different pages, but just a few points.

* Your driving style will always affect your range.

* Your Isaac Asimov comment makes little sense to me. I could just as easily say that you're a slave to your machine because you need to do regular oil changes, etc... How inconvenient.

* Many of the items you've listed sound like wants, not needs. I could say that I "need" to get 100mpg. You say you "need" to add 100% range in 5 or 10 minutes because that's what you're used to.

* As for "needing" to know that you can walk a few minutes to a fuel source, all I can say is that you apparently don't get out much - like to the mountains, the desert, the plains, etc... There are always going to be times when you're stuck.

* You're certainly not forced to charge up in your garage. Many people install weatherproof outdoor charging outlets.

* As for the climate effects of building and shipping batteries, have you forgotten how you get your fossil fuel? On ships and trucks. Have you forgotten about the many, disastrous oil spills that have occurred over the years? This kind of cherry-picking is typical of EV detractors (like the whole "government subsidy" nonsense.)

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[GeeVee7T]

We're obviously on different pages, but just a few points.

* Your driving style will always affect your range.

* Your Isaac Asimov comment makes little sense to me. I could just as easily say that you're a slave to your machine because you need to do regular oil changes, etc... How inconvenient.

* Many of the items you've listed sound like wants, not needs. I could say that I "need" to get 100mpg. You say you "need" to add 100% range in 5 or 10 minutes because that's what you're used to.

* You're certainly not forced to charge up in your garage. Many people install weatherproof outdoor charging outlets.

* As for the climate effects of building and shipping batteries, have you forgotten how you get your fossil fuel? On ships and trucks. Have you forgotten about the many, disastrous oil spills that have occurred over the years? This kind of cherry-picking is typical of EV detractors (like the whole "government subsidy" nonsense.)

Agree to disagree.

EVs clearly suit your needs and preferences and ICE currently suits mine. I'm not going to argue or suggest you shouldn't own an EV anymore than I would respectfully expect the corollary argument for my ICE.

Enjoy your EV.

 

[Alfer]

And all that electricity needed to run the EV's will overtax the already stretched fossil fuel power stations and require MORE fossil fuels to run that EV that is supposed to "save the planet".

 

[EdP]

And all that electricity needed to run the EV's will overtax the already stretched fossil fuel power stations and require MORE fossil fuels to run that EV that is supposed to "save the planet".

That is why they are building windmills and solar. Even nukes may be coming back.

 

[Husky]

@ Alfer, you're apparently unaware of (or just choose to ignore) the large contribution that renewable energy sources are already making to our grid, and how that number is rapidly rising.
We've had this discussion already.

 

[Husky]

And all that electricity needed to run the EV's will overtax the already stretched fossil fuel power stations and require MORE fossil fuels to run that EV that is supposed to "save the planet".

Don't you know that when record high temps (ironically, a result of climate change) threatened to bring down the grid in Texas, it was renewable energy sources that kept it going.

 

[PMCErnie]

The long and the short of it is that EV sales are waning.

 

[Husky]

I give you credit for staying on message

 

[pulsar]

Been on the fence about an EV. There are some that I like, but I don’t like the controlling nature of Tesla, updates I may or may not want to happen to the car for they are always jacking with programming and such, I like being in control of my own car. If using commercial fast charging stations all I hear is the cost to charge at those stations is not much different than putting 10 gallons of gas in my car. Insurance cost is higher for the cost to repair EVs is higher for parts are more expensive, they take longer to repair and qualified mechanics are in short supply. I saw a Rivian that had a slight bump on the rear facia bumper cover. Looked minor and mostly cosmetic. By the time it was repaired the whole truck bed was removed along with rear glass. $30k later the whole back end of the truck was rebuilt. That truck will never be the same. Seems at least some EVs are built way different from a manufacturing standpoint than a typical ICE car for replacement body parts and mechanicals. The true yearly cost of owner ship is not the huge savings as we were once lead to believe. If you want to keep it 7-8 years and need a new battery, now you have A $10k+ bill. I do all my own work on my ICE vehicles and always have. I enjoy working on my cars. An EV would be a whole new learning curve for me so not sure it’s something I’m ready for just yet.

 

[PMCErnie]

I give you credit for staying on message

I only know what I read in the newspapers.

 

[steveinarizona]

The long and the short of it is that EV sales are waning.

Not true:

A Record 1.2 Million EVs Were Sold in the U.S. in 2023, According to Estimates from Kelley Blue Book - Cox Automotive Inc.

Cox Automotive publishes a quarterly Kelley Blue Book new-vehicle sales report enumerating electric vehicle sales.

www.coxautoinc.com