20000 mile UPDATE!

[flyingcarpet]

Genesis's ride quality actually very close to air suspesion equipped s-class, and probably better performence in curve negotiation than s-class.

 

[OneShot]

Actually, yes, anonymous, statistically irrelevant comments are useless for one to form an opinion. It has nothing to do with intellect but rather with integrity. Not that I would expect you to understand what integrity is all about.

I don't abstain from smoking because you (or any other anonymous person) say so. I abstain from smoking because year of medical research proves it's bad.




How is 2 out of 99 common? Might want to check out http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/common as well. Here are some excerpts:
"pertaining or belonging equally to an entire community"
"widespread; general;"
"Synonyms:
4. universal, prevalent"

Using your methodology, I guess you fit the definition of an idiot. Here's the proof:
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/idiot
id⋅i⋅ot   /ˈɪdiət/ Show Spelled Pronunciation [id-ee-uht] Show IPA
–noun 1. an utterly foolish or senseless person.
2. Psychology. a person of the lowest order in a former classification of mental retardation, having a mental age of less than three years old and an intelligence quotient under 25.

Synonyms:
1. fool, half-wit; imbecile; dolt, dunce, numskull.

I'm truly sorry I defended myself in the prior post. I threw a few lame jokes in there that could be taken wrong, and I'm sorry the humor eluded you. In your prior post you more than hinted that opinions other than yours were "deceitful and obsessed". I somehow took offense at that statement, since my opinion differs from yours on this subject. I relish intelligent and lively discussion, and don't take differences personally.
You then attacked the words I used, and accused me of incorrect usage. You were proven completely and indisputably wrong there, and I shouldn't have, but I rubbed it in. For that I apologize. Now you're onto the next step; "those obsessive and deceitful people that dare say the Genesis suspension could be better, well they are rare". At first it wasn't an issue, but now it is rare? If it so rare, why even respond? Wouldn't it die of natural causes? It is common enough that it has generated many, many posts and been mentioned by professional reviewers. It is isn't hard to tell who is losing the argument, they are the ones resorting to name calling. What's next? Insulting my mother? I take no issue with disagreement, there are valid issues on both sides.
As for the rest of your post, I dare say you shared a lot more about yourself than you did about anyone else.

 

[OneShot]

You know, the thing is, I really love the Genesis and enjoyed the 20,000 mile review. I have put off the purchase only because I can (my current car is running fine and can't go down in value any more). I had my checkbook in hand, ready to purchase before that last test-drive, months ago. I hadn't read anything about suspension problems before that, but I noticed a jarring ride on that drive. The salesman noticed it also, and thought maybe the vehicle hadn't been prepped properly. The tire pressure was spot-on, so only then, did I decide to postpone my decision. I like the Genesis enough that I'm lingering (some might say lurking) here, hoping the issues are truly going to be resolved to my satisfaction. But, hey, this is just one man's opinion, and I don't question anyone who is completely happy just the way it is!

 

[OneShot]

Genesis's ride quality actually very close to air suspesion equipped s-class, and probably better performence in curve negotiation than s-class.

I read somewhere that the Korean market Genesis either has an air-bag suspension or has an option for one. Anyone know any more?

 

[flyingcarpet]

genesis sold in other regions(may be Korea or Middle East) do have the air supension. You won't like the price they paid over there. Give the Genesis a second chance, test drive it again.

 

[Gimli]

In your prior post you more than hinted that opinions other than yours were "deceitful and obsessed". I somehow took offense at that statement, since my opinion differs from yours on this subject.

Using words like "prevalent" and "common" to identify something this is anything but is deceitful. I don't care if you take offense to being called out on it or not.

Those and other similar deceitful comments, from you and a handful of other posters, being repeated ad nauseam all over this forum (and Edmund's car reviews apparently) qualifies as an obsession. Everyone has been extremely patient so far but I (and others) have had enough of your mis-representation of the truth.

If you can't keep it to your personnal experience without making it look like most Genesis owners, which has been proven quite like the characteristics of the car, think like you then you will be called out on it. I have no problem with you stating your opinion about your car; I do have a problem with you deceitfully stating that a majority of Genesis owners think like you.

You then attacked the words I used, and accused me of incorrect usage. You were proven completely and indisputably wrong there, and I shouldn't have, but I rubbed it in.

I guess your own definition of "wrong" is considerably different from the one that's accepted by the rest of the people who speak english, just like your definitions of "prevalent" and "common".

Now you're onto the next step; "those obsessive and deceitful people that dare say the Genesis suspension could be better, well they are rare". At first it wasn't an issue, but now it is rare?

Please provide a reference where I stated that nobody ever had an issue with the Genesis suspension. You do understand that there is a grammatical and real difference between a flat negation and the demonstration of an irrelevant statistical sample, right?

What I have stated, and proven, is that reality is the exact opposite of your very own statement earlier in this thread, which I will quote:
"Although you haven't had suspension issues with your V6, the issues are prevalent with the V8 models."
You offered Edmunds user reviews (which I have already discarded as completely useless anonymous opinions, but that's all you presented to back up your deceitful claim) as a justification for your claim and I have proven that not only do 2 out of 99 reviews NOT represent a "prevalent" opinion but I have just noticed that one of those two opinions was from a V6 owner, completely throwing your theory out the window.

If it so rare, why even respond? Wouldn't it die of natural causes?

Not when the same handful of deceitful, obsessed people keep repeating their exagerated claims over and over and over and over again.

It is common enough that it has generated many, many posts and been mentioned by professional reviewers.

Most of those comments come from the same pool of deceitful, obsessed posters, which in no way legitimizes their claims. Just because you keep repeating something doesn't make it true.

I have yet to see a single professional review declare the Genesis undriveable because of it's suspension (which has been claimed by your camp). A few have stated that the suspension wasn't perfect and could be tuned better but none have identified it as an actual issue in needs of fixing.

It is isn't hard to tell who is losing the argument, they are the ones resorting to name calling.

Which again proves your failure to understand simple English.

As for the rest of your post, I dare say you shared a lot more about yourself than you did about anyone else.

At least I am honest enough to stand by what I say, here or anywhere, without trying to re-define words or mis-represent other people's opinions.

 

[USMA84]

20K miles already -- impressive!

vishnus11, when did you purchase your Genesis? What kind of work do you do that enabled you to put that many miles on it so quick. What is your estimate of highway verses city miles?

Thanks for a great personal review!

 

[OneShot]

I can see you are still in the denial stage and are intolerant of opinions that are different from yours. You choose to deny and name-call those with a different opinion. I present facts, you deny the facts without substantiation. This is getting tiresome. This is a discussion board, not grade school. I'm sorry I called you out on a word definition, but there is no denying you were wrong. I never said the Genesis was undrivable, in fact I like them, I just want a little better. You don't, that's fine. Hyundai is supposedly changing the suspension, as we speak. I have no idea why they'd do that if complaints were irrelavant statistical samples. Consumer Reports, Car and Driver, Motor Trend and others have noted the ride-quality issues also. There are many people on this board that like the car, but wish it rode better. Others say it is perfect for them. Both are right. The main thing we disagree on is that I think the issue is more common than you. Insulting others that agree with my opinion, does nothing but denigrate yours. I am not speaking for Hyundai, or anyone else, only me. I respect your opinion also, but I think you are poorly representing your side. This forum isn't for personal battles it is for the respectful sharing of thoughts and ideas.

 

[sandy]

I can see you are still in the denial stage and are intolerant of opinions that are different from yours. You choose to deny and name-call those with a different opinion. I present facts, you deny the facts without substantiation. This is getting tiresome. This is a discussion board, not grade school. I'm sorry I called you out on a word definition, but there is no denying you were wrong. I never said the Genesis was undrivable, in fact I like them, I just want a little better. You don't, that's fine. Hyundai is supposedly changing the suspension, as we speak. I have no idea why they'd do that if complaints were irrelavant statistical samples. Consumer Reports, Car and Driver, Motor Trend and others have noted the ride-quality issues also. There are many people on this board that like the car, but wish it rode better. Others say it is perfect for them. Both are right. The main thing we disagree on is that I think the issue is more common than you. Insulting others that agree with my opinion, does nothing but denigrate yours. I am not speaking for Hyundai, or anyone else, only me. I respect your opinion also, but I think you are poorly representing your side. This forum isn't for personal battles it is for the respectful sharing of thoughts and ideas.[/QUOTE

We may all have different ways of looking at the "facts". Here's how I see it:

1. The idea that suspension changes are coming in 2010, is based on a report from a single poster, who had a conversation with a secret source who we are implored NOT to seek out for confirmation. That poster, to his credit, modified the certainy of this happening with statements such as "almost certainly", "if it happens" and "if true". I am not saying the report is not true, only asking that we reflect on the basis for a thread on that subject that has grown to more than 5 pages and that we now insert in posts as if it were a fact.

2. 70% of the negative suspension posts, at my last count, have been made by two posters. It may now be higher. I am not challanging anyone's point of view. Just suggesting that their volume be considered in forming an opinion on how widespread this problem is, or isn't, Again, if anyone wants to correct my 70% estimate, please do so.

3. The number of people complaining about DEFECTIVE suspensions are no more than two or three. (Out of more than 1000 members on this site} I am defining defective as a suspension that causes nausea, spinal compression, headaches, porposing etc. If this number is incorrect, tell me the correct figure.

4. No more than a dozen different people (again out of more than !000 members) have expressed DISSATISFACTION with the suspension. About 1%. However, dissatisfaction does not imply a "problem" with the suspension ...it only reflects a personal preference. Tom thinks it's too firm, Dick thinks it's too soft and Harry thinks it's just right. In the case of the Genesis, there are many more Harry's than Tom or Dicks. Hyundai sought a compromise to please the widest number of potential customers. Again, if my 1% estimate is incorrect, tell me the right number.

6. Previously I had cited a poll done on this site which indicated the vast majority of owners found the suspension to be "perfect". The poll was pooh-pooed and when I asked for a more reliable source for such information I never got one. Let me add that I made my living in the marketing industry and fielded hundreds of thousands of dollars on consumer research. While I appreciate its limitations, there are few sources of feed-back that are more revealing than an owners poll.

7. The Car and Driver review is repeatedly referenced to bolster the argument the suspension should be modified. C & D has its opinion. But so do a host of other reviewers who are positive on the issue and they are available to read on this site.

8. About name calling: It goes both ways. An argument I find offensive is the claim that those who don't fess up to the suspension needing improvement are "insecure", or are in denial or have some other psychological problem preventing them from confessing how unhappy they really are about the suspension.

9. Now, about you mother......

 

[OneShot]

Sandy, great post!
I agree these suspension posts are getting out of hand. The reason I piped in, was the original poster, made some derogatory comments about the people that had issues with the suspension. I share the opinion that the suspension could be better and didn't like the broad generalizations expressed. I was then told that the Edmunds site had positive reviews, I looked at the first page, saw two negative suspension posts and displayed them here. Another poster challenged me to post the link and then got personal, well anyway you can read the rest for yourself. I love numbers and you got them, and I won't argue! The only caveat I have is the forum that generated your statistics. Forum members are for the most part Genesis owners and thus have already voted their satisfaction for the vehicle with their pocketbook. I find it significant that even a few people are having second thoughts about their purchase. It is kind of like asking people at church if they believe in God (okay that is a bit extreme)! As for the denial thing, what I meant was that poster thought that anyone taking issue with the suspension had an evil and hidden agenda. I am going to take another poster's advice and test drive a newer V8 version (the one I drove was the first in my area). Hopefully my opinion will change and leave my mother out of this!

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[jpq1999]

First of all, I would like to thank vishnus11 for his very thorough post. I have enjoyed reading his educated (at least to me) assessment of the Genesis. I bought my 4.6 w/ tech right after Christmas, and have roughly 2,500 miles on it. I have been extremely happy with it, suspension and all. It's a funny thing: I notice the jumpiness of the car over rough roads, but, to me, it's not perfect but not that big a deal. To others on this site, however, it's the end of the world.

Example: you have the creator of this thread, with 20,000 miles on his car, and he has made 10 posts. You also have a poster (oneshot) with like 50 posts, AND HE DOESN'T EVEN OWN A GENESIS! What is your deal, dude? You're ranting on and on about a car you don't even own. Get a life!

The car is not perfect (none are), but, for my money, I am VERY SATISFIED with my purchase, and would buy another Genesis (or this one when 27 months are up) if things continue as they are.

/end rant

 

[Nabber]

I think the bottom line is expectations. We all like to compare our $40,000 V8 with the $70,000 German cars. There's no doubt we are getting a lot of bang for our bucks, and Hyundai has gone out of its way to compete with the Germans.

As someone said earlier, I think Hyundai needed to stiffen up the suspension to slalom with the BMW. They may have gone overboard. And I've said this before...

Would I like an LS460 suspension? Yes.
Am I willing to pay 70k for it? No.
Can a stiff suspension also feel soft as some claim? Yes.
For 40k on this class car? No.

I usually just keep my brief-case in the back seat anyways. Fortunately, it hasn't asked to be let out of the back seat yet. lol

 

[jwaters943]

jpq1999:

Great post. I agree 100%.

 

[moose66]

jpq1999:

You are on it! Just like jwaters943, I am in full agreement with your post!

 

[ttsig]

Sandy, most of your points are well made, but for some reason couldn't I stop myself from responding to a few.

2. 70% of the negative suspension posts, at my last count, have been made by two posters. It may now be higher. I am not challanging anyone's point of view. Just suggesting that their volume be considered in forming an opinion on how widespread this problem is, or isn't, Again, if anyone wants to correct my 70% estimate, please do so.

To be fair, roughly 70% of all post on this board come from about 20-30 people, that's pretty much the way forums are. Heck, roughly half the members haven't posted at all. You could say that means, of the people who post 70% of the content, at least 10% of them are vocal about disliking the suspension.

3. The number of people complaining about DEFECTIVE suspensions are no more than two or three. (Out of more than 1000 members on this site} I am defining defective as a suspension that causes nausea, spinal compression, headaches, porposing etc. If this number is incorrect, tell me the correct figure.

I think this number is wrong if you include "porposing". There have been quite a few people on this list besides the two or three you mention who have commented/complained about the "porposing" in a least some road conditions. A quick search made it pretty easy to turn up a dozen or so posters with that complaint, and probably more if I search harder. Certainly those two or three have talked about it much more than most others, and in my case I've only experienced it a handful of times in nearly 15K miles, but when it did, it was exceptionally bad.

4. No more than a dozen different people (again out of more than !000 members) have expressed DISSATISFACTION with the suspension. About 1%. However, dissatisfaction does not imply a "problem" with the suspension ...it only reflects a personal preference. Tom thinks it's too firm, Dick thinks it's too soft and Harry thinks it's just right. In the case of the Genesis, there are many more Harry's than Tom or Dicks. Hyundai sought a compromise to please the widest number of potential customers. Again, if my 1% estimate is incorrect, tell me the right number.

I think the number is higher than 12, but I haven't gone back to count. So far at least 20 people answered on the poll that the ride was too stiff, and 13 said "wait for the 2010 model with improved suspension".

It's also unfair to use the "only 12 out of 1000+ members have complained argument". Over half of those now nearly 1500 users haven't even made a single post, and many, many more only one or two posts. There's no telling how many of those even own a Genesis or are just lurking to learn about it (a poll in Jan 09 asking who on the forum actually owned a Genesis only received 79 "yes" votes). There's perhaps 100 people who post any significant amount (probably less), so 12 complaints suddenly becomes a much higher percentage. And, to be honest, it's really only fair to compare people who have actually commented on the ride and have more than maybe 5K miles on a variety of roads. Many of the posters who comment positively about the ride say things like "I've had my car for 2 weeks and have driven it 1000 miles and it rides great". That's probably not enough experience to count as a "positive". I drove my car almost 7K miles before I experienced the first suspension "breakdown" on a stretch of road.

6. Previously I had cited a poll done on this site which indicated the vast majority of owners found the suspension to be "perfect". The poll was pooh-pooed and when I asked for a more reliable source for such information I never got one. Let me add that I made my living in the marketing industry and fielded hundreds of thousands of dollars on consumer research. While I appreciate its limitations, there are few sources of feed-back that are more revealing than an owners poll.

Yes, that poll shows users overwhelmingly think the ride is "perfect", but even so, 23% of users answered that the ride is too firm. That's certainly far more than your 1% figure. Also, that poll doesn't take into account people like me, who think the suspension is just about perfect, but have experienced a "breakdown" on a few roads. What should I vote in such a poll? I actually voted "perfect" but if I could go back in time would probably vote "too firm" even though in reality, I don't think it's too firm, just has some weird problem on some roads (edit -- actually, I appear to have been incorrect in this statement, I am listed as having voted "too firm").

I certainly agree that these 2 or 3 users seem to have a much worse time with their Genesis suspension than mine. I think my car rides great 99% of the time, actually, I've yet to find a road in my home state (SC), or the two states north and south of me, that cause the problem. However, if I ever take my Genny to that area of Alabama again, I'm brining my video camera because you'd probably have to see the bucking and jolting it does on that stretch to believe it.

Later,
Tom

 

[sandy]

ttsig

The numbers are the numbers. Nothing stopping those who haven't posted from registering complaints. But you do make fair points. I could argue some but that's just because we look at the data differently.

 

[ShoNuff]

It's also a well-known phenomenon that, in internet forums, those who have gripes or concerns are much more likely to post than those people who don't.

For the record, I've got somewhere around 8,300 miles on my V6 Gen and haven't experienced any unpleasantness with the suspension, and my many passengers all rave about how comfortable the ride is in the back. Different strokes for different folks, I guess.

 

[Gimli]

Sandy, most of your points are well made, but for some reason couldn't I stop myself from responding to a few.

Just like Sandy's, your points are all valid, which is why I really find it ridiculous when people make all sorts of unfounded generalizations based on anonymous internet forums and opinion sites.

 

[DeMAN]

I dont own a Genesis but my daughter does. I had a chace to drive her alot when she was home. Now, I only have one complaint and thats the seat height. If they figure a way to lower the seat travel I will be a happy camper. But its not my car she short and happy with the car. She pays for it and as long as the owner is happy I'm happy. That alone would not be enough for me not to purchase one if I were in the market.

You all have a winner and a car you all should be proud to own. You are aways going to have nay sayer, and some that wont be happy no matter what, but enjoy your car. Go trade and get another car if the Genesis sedan is not what you thought.

 

[Gimli]

I thought all the Genesis had the fully adjustable power driver seat, which includes height adjustment. I know I have it on a V8 w/tech.