2009 3.8 variable valve timing issue DRIVNG ME CRAZY LOL.

[jrank001]

Hi Everyone:


I'm new to the forum and a new Genesis owner. Yea! My buddy sold me his 2009 Genesis. He upgraded to a 2018 G80.

I've done my due diligence researching on the forum for a repair/fix for a variable valve timing issue I’m having with no luck. The car has 194.000 miles on it. The car runs good for a short while then the check engine light comes on, stays on, and at times blinks on and off. As this is happening the car is spitting and sputtering. There is a large amount of soot on the tailpipe because the timing is off.

I’ve replaced the three coils on the RH side of the motor, all six plugs, and EGR valve. I thought this would have taken care of it but I was wrong. My buddy’s mechanic said to make sure and change the oil frequently to help with this. I have 300 miles on a fresh oil change and it came right back.

My question is what is the permanent repair for this? Can someone point me in the right direction?

Thank You

 

[carguy75]

The problem could be related to the timing chain, timing chain tensioners or guides; which allows the timing chain to slip and mess up the timing of the engine. Pretty common issue with many modern high mileage engines due to long oil changes intervals(over 5k miles) and/or defective components. BMW,Audi,Range rovers,GM,etc. have had this problem in many of their engines.

Just look up timing chain guides issues for any of those makes. I assume that Hyundai engines are also susceptible to those issues as well.

However, the problem could also be as simple as bad camshaft sensors. I would try changing those first, and if the problem continues then look at maybe the timing chain components.

 

[pulsar]

What is the code from the engine light? Those are really helpful for what sensor may be problematic? Most auto parts stores will read the code for you if you do not have a code reader.

 

[princelybug]

Welcome to the forum! My advice would also be to get the codes read first, and go from there.

 

[jimmy buoy]

Scotty Kilmer on youtube did a segment on Genesis Sedans and had an older 3.8 that a customer brought in with a stumbling engine at idle. He hooked up his scan tool and said it was something in the variable valve timing that was wearing but I don't think it was bad enough to warrant a big repair bill.

 

[carguy75]

Scotty Kilmer on youtube did a segment on Genesis Sedans and had an older 3.8 that a customer brought in with a stumbling engine at idle. He hooked up his scan tool and said it was something in the variable valve timing that was wearing but I don't think it was bad enough to warrant a big repair bill.

LOL. I watch a few of his videos and they very vague and generalized when it comes to informational videos in my opinion. However, his specific repair and tip videos are very informative.

This video is more about how an Lexus engine wears better than a Hyundai engine regardless of JD power praise for Hyundai engine reliability. He uses one example from a older Hyundai engine with an unknown service history to push his opinion.The rough idle could be from wear like he mentioned or from old camshaft position sensors that are failing but are still operating in spec so does not throw a engine code. Hell, even bad gas could be why the idle is rough. Furthermore, he did not use an old Lexus engine timing scan as a comparison. However, he is an mechanic so I assume that he knows more about the cause of the rough idle than myself.

With that being said, I do agree that Lexus/Toyota engines are the most reliable and would be my first choice as an used car to buy over 100k miles.

 

[jrank001]

Here are the error codes per Autozone

 

[pulsar]

Wow, that’s a lot of codes. A dealer may go on a fishing expedition diagnosing those all at your expense. The coil packs you replaced were logical choices. Can’t help but think cam position sensor or timing might be the next areas to look at. Wonder if the ECM could have somehow gone bad or act intermittent? I’ve not used my timing light in years so not sure how easy it is to still use one to verify timing on computer controlled engines? You might pull the timing chain cover off to verify crank and cam position dots are still properly aligned in case they got off a tooth somehow. Good luck and keep us informed.

 

[Ketchupmothafcka]

From what I've learned and read, running unproperly lean is usually due to vacuum leak. I think you have a vacuum leak before or at your intake manifold, on account of both banks running lean. I would check PCV, crank ventilation, brake booster, the gasket that joins the TB and Intake. It also may be bad O2 sensors

 

[carguy75]

Here are the error codes per Autozone

View attachment 29470

Man, it seems like you will need to change the spark plugs and maybe an O2 sensor based on the codes present.

I personally would check the vacuum hoses, change the spark plugs, use a few bottles fuel additive for the next three fill-ups like Techron(one bottle a fill-up) to clean the fuel injectors and then go from there. If the problems continue then I would look at o2 sensors and manifold gaskets. it is possible that the codes are form multiple issues that needs to be resolved as with many older engines.

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[jrank001]

I just went to my local Hyundia dealership and had a tech read my codes. After talking he suggested replacing the pre cat O2 sensor on bank 2 and the left front speed sensor then come back and see how many of the codes disappear. What side is bank 2 on?

 

[pulsar]

I just went to my local Hyundia dealership and had a tech read my codes. After talking he suggested replacing the pre cat O2 sensor on bank 2 and the left front speed sensor then come back and see how many of the codes disappear. What side is bank 2 on?

O2 sensors do crap out at times so probably a reasonable diagnosis from the technician. Some can be a little pricey. Whatever you replace, I’d have your auto parts store clear the codes and then go drive and see what repeats? If you leave old codes stored, not sure how easy it will be to distinguish old from new codes? The dealer would probably hook up a portable scanner while driving for they can watch stuff real time as they drive.

 

[jrank001]

I replaced the pre cat O2 Sensor 1 Bank 2 RH side OEM Part# 39210-3C910. I also replaced the LH ABS speed sensor OEM Part# 59810-3M000 on the technicians reccomendations. Then cleared all codes. Within minutes code PO174 System to lean bank 2 came up and System to lean at idle bank 2.

I have oil leaking out of my RH Oil Control Valve OEM Part# 243603C820. That's my next move. This is starting to wear on me. Any ideas?

 

[Kraig Wilkinson]

I replaced the pre cat O2 Sensor 1 Bank 2 RH side OEM Part# 39210-3C910. I also replaced the LH ABS speed sensor OEM Part# 59810-3M000 on the technicians reccomendations. Then cleared all codes. Within minutes code PO174 System to lean bank 2 came up and System to lean at idle bank 2.

I have oil leaking out of my RH Oil Control Valve OEM Part# 243603C820. That's my next move. This is starting to wear on me. Any ideas?

View attachment 29710
View attachment 29711View attachment 29710View attachment 29711

The oil control valve is for the VVT yes? The tech at the Hyundai dealer told me the oil control valve could cause lots of different issues. Kind of like you are having. The running lean is most likely a vacuum leak of some sort. Good luck. Welcome to the forum.

 

[pulsar]

Vacuum leak as some have mentioned can alter fuel air ratio so checking all vacuum hoses for no cracks is a good idea. Any way to confirm your injectors are flowing correctly? A partially clogged injector would seem to make a lean condition. Not sure how easy it is to find a shop to put them on a flow bench to verify spray pattern? With O2 sensors being replaced, knowing injectors are in good shape would eliminate another puzzle piece.

 

[Jatu]

LOL. I watch a few of his videos and they very vague and generalized when it comes to informational videos in my opinion. However, his specific repair and tip videos are very informative.

This video is more about how an Lexus engine wears better than a Hyundai engine regardless of JD power praise for Hyundai engine reliability. He uses one example from a older Hyundai engine with an unknown service history to push his opinion.The rough idle could be from wear like he mentioned or from old camshaft position sensors that are failing but are still operating in spec so does not throw a engine code. Hell, even bad gas could be why the idle is rough. Furthermore, he did not use an old Lexus engine timing scan as a comparison. However, he is an mechanic so I assume that he knows more about the cause of the rough idle than myself.

With that being said, I do agree that Lexus/Toyota engines are the most reliable and would be my first choice as an used car to buy over 100k miles.

So this Genesis is mine and I can guarantee you the service history is spot on. I am concerned about this rough idle though. Do you guys think it is just the sensors going bad. If so which sensors and do you have part numbers and quantities on them?

 

[carguy75]

So this Genesis is mine and I can guarantee you the service history is spot on. I am concerned about this rough idle though. Do you guys think it is just the sensors going bad. If so which sensors and do you have part numbers and quantities on them?

I can only guess that it "could" be the camshaft position sensors, however it could be a number of issues like a stretched timing chain as well. However, I would try the simple fixes first like the camshaft sensors, spark plugs, cleaning the fuel injectors, check the vacuum hoses,etc. before looking into the major repair solutions like the timing chain.

I can only help troubleshoot only so much based off onscreen descriptions of a problem.

 

[Kraig Wilkinson]

I can only guess that it "could" be the camshaft position sensors, however it could be a number of issues like a stretched timing chain as well. However, I would try the simple fixes first like the camshaft sensors, spark plugs, cleaning the fuel injectors, check the vacuum hoses,etc. before looking into the major repair solutions like the timing chain.

I can only help troubleshoot only so much based off onscreen descriptions of a problem.

Agreed..Start with the basics!

 

[Jatu]

I can only guess that it "could" be the camshaft position sensors, however it could be a number of issues like a stretched timing chain as well. However, I would try the simple fixes first like the camshaft sensors, spark plugs, cleaning the fuel injectors, check the vacuum hoses,etc. before looking into the major repair solutions like the timing chain.

I can only help troubleshoot only so much based off onscreen descriptions of a problem.

Sounds good, I will keep you guys updated

 

[amarbaatar]

Thanks so much for posting on this topic. I am having very similar codes (bank 2 sensor 1, misfires in cyl 4 & 6) and also found the OCV leaking and wicking into the wiring harness and into the injector connectors. I plan to replace the OCV assemblies and go from there since I already replace O2 sensors, spark plugs, and leak check the vacuum intake. Thanks for any insights.



2009 Genesis 3.8 Sedan - 4Door 5P; 3.8L Lambda; DOHC - MPI
102,000 mi.

Codes:

P0153 O2-Sensor Circuit Slow Response (Bank 2 / Sensor 1)

P0306 Cylinder 6 - Misfire detected

P2189 System Too Lean at Idle Bank 2

P0300 Multiple Cylinder Misfire Detected

P0304 Cylinder 4 - Misfire detected