2010 almost certainly will have suspension changes

[doug725]

Stanco - your'e probably going to have to bite the bullet and sell or trade - even at a loss as I am trying to do. At this point I feel it is unfortunate, but worth it because I can't even stand to look at the car anymore. I've actually found myself wishing it would get stolen or totaled before I actually have to drive it again. Yesterday I was on one stretch of 53 that was smooth asphalt with no swells or bumps- it rode very nicely. Unfortunately, that was only 5 minutes out of an otherwise miserable 35 minute ride (on the same concrete highway and suburban streets I used to ride on all the time with no problems in my Sante Fe). The more I test drive other cars the more I realize just how shockingly poor the ride is in my Genny.

I haven't even bothered with the arbitration or a claim because I know the drill. Mark is right - it is performing as designed. That, indeed, is the problem my friend.

I found with my Sante Fe that I had a lot of problem getting the dealer or Hyundai to admit or "duplicate" a problem unless the car was completely non functional. My Santy had 5 moderate/major recalls and 3 big warranty claims as it was - including complete replacement of the calipers at 3,000, transmission replacement at about 5,000 and oxygen sensor at 7,500. We never did agree on the windshield cracking and several other issues. That too, was a basically a new model (2002.5) at the time. Hyundai is not unique to these issues, but the two experiences have turned me off to buying another Hyundai at this point. I know they don't care about losing me as a customer because they are doing relatively well at this point.

I feel like an idiot for purchasing a new model Hyundai again. I should have learned my lesson, but I fell for the hype.

I have been unable to find another car I want and I've been really indecisive lest I make another mistake. But, at this point my tolerance for the Genny is completely gone. I'm looking at basically a used Milan or Accord (sigh) on a 3-year loan. Hopefully, I can pay that off early and look for a more permanent choice.

Good luck to you!

 

[Nabber]

Stanco - your'e probably going to have to bite the bullet and sell or trade - even at a loss as I am trying to do…

Sorry, but the more I read, the less sympathetic I get. I could rehash your errors, such as:

1. Your failure to adequately test drive your vehicle
2. Your failure to exercise due diligence in researching a new car that offers thousands of “opinions” available online
3. Your failure to adequately test drive your vehicle
4. Your failure to realize that a sports sedan may not be an appropriate vehicle for a person suffering from severe sciatica.
5. Your failure to adequately test drive your vehicle

But I won’t. Instead I’ll make other obvious points...

… your'e probably going to have to bite the bullet and sell or trade - even at a loss as I am trying to do.

Not hard to imagine a used vehicle might be worth less than a new vehicle.

The more I test drive other cars the more I realize just how shockingly poor the ride is in my Genny.

Again, blaming a vehicle for your failure to do the homework. This is why car dealerships allow people to drive a car before buying. You evidently did not do a thorough job testing it. No excuses. You can cry all you want but most of us realized what we were getting before buying do to our efforts.

You could retort that X vehicle has a stiff suspension but doesn’t drive terribly but then I might not believe you because you are not the person I would trust forming an opinion on a vehicle you do not own. I might suggest you put your money where your mouth is and buy that vehicle rather than a used Honda Accord, lol. Sounds to me there are markets where the Genesis is selling briskly. You no doubt can reconcile the effects of your carrying costs and the introduction of a new model year on waiting to make a killing.

Is the Genesis perfect for me? No. I wanted an LS460 suspension but didn’t want to spend that kind of money on something I will own for 5 years. It would have been a foolish purchase for me. After doing my homework, I chose the Genesis as the appropriate compromise in price, performance, amenities, and ride quality.

Of course, I’m not whining either.

 

[BacktoHyundaibychoice]

OK, I've been quiet for a month now. I told Doug I wouldn't post anything about our test drives where we swapped cars and drove one of his "worst" problem roads. I made that promise on the assumption that if he posted more, he'd represent things factually and honestly. But the longer this drags on, the bigger the disservice to readers/potential buyers and Hyundai itself. Please note that this is written without malice or name-calling. In fact, Doug seemed like a pretty good guy.
Here is my account of driving Doug's car, and I'm sure Doug will correct anything I've misremembered:
1. We met at our mutual dealer (Pugi) on a cold Sunday morning. After some discussion of the 150lbs of salt in my trunk, tire pressure, winter driving, etc., Doug drove my car out of the lot with me following in his.
2. We drove on bumpy, potholed Ogden Avenue to I-355 heading North. At Roosevelt we turned around for the trip back to the dealer. Total driving time was maybe 20 minutes (?), but over the route Doug chose.
3. We then compared notes.
4. I said that I felt none of the ride he'd described, and in fact his ride was "smoother" than in my car. There was certainly no behaviour that would cause nausea, leg numbness, or loss of control.
5. I also commented to Doug (and my wife later) that his car was actually more fun to drive than mine. It was quicker off the line and the steering felt "lighter" and more responsive. I speculated that maybe the fewer pounds caused that feeling.
6. Doug's impression of my car was that the ride was the same as his, maybe even harsher.
7. At that point we agreed to disagree and moved on.
One last point:
Doug has written that he's only been offered 26K on a trade. What I haven't seen written yet (though I may very well have missed it) is that Pugi offered him 28K on a trade at their shop. That would include Hyundai, VW, and Mazda.

Once again, I'm sure Doug will correct anything I've gotten wrong. But too many people have invested too much time in this for me to maintain silence.

 

[Mark_888]

This thread is about possible (or probable) changes to the suspension in the 2010 model. I would request that moderators move the above post (and others that are off-subject) to another thread.

 

[ctrcbob]

Leave all the posts here. Makes interesting reading.

I test drove my Genesis and knew that the suspension was on the "hard" side, but I also know that many years ago, I drove Mercedes that were just as hard. If Hyundai makes the suspension "less harsh", the car most likely will not handle as well as it does. My Genesis goes around curves like it was on rails, so I can live with the harsh (hard) rear suspension. (Front suspension is great just as it is). Also, there is one road I go on a couple times a week that has a "ripple" surface. I hate that road. I feel every bump on that road, HOWEVER every car I've had since I moved here also has a bumpy ride on that road. I don't blame the car, but the road surface.

On this suspension issue, Hyundai is stuck between a rock and a hard place. Whom do they please. Those who think the suspension is too harsh (hard) or those who think the suspension is too soft (floats).

 

[Mark_888]

Leave all the posts here. Makes interesting reading.

You can read it in another thread.

I test drove my Genesis and knew that the suspension was on the "hard" side, but I also know that many years ago, I drove Mercedes that were just as hard. If Hyundai makes the suspension "less harsh", the car most likely will not handle as well as it does.

I believe you are wrong about that. As Car and Driver noted, the Infiniti M and BMW 5 have a stiffer ride but don't have the same harshness on certain road conditions.

 

[ImInPA]

BackToHyundaiByChoice:

Two Words: THANK YOU!!!

It seems that you have shed more light in your post above than all of the threads involving the "suspension issue" combined. You are a really good forum member in that you met with Doug and did a swap/ride. What you have related is what I have suspected all along. I think that Mark and Doug have done a huge disservice to the readers of our forum and a huge disservice to potential buyers, not to mention Hyundai itself.

I do find it interesting that you felt his Genesis rode smoother than yours. Is it the difference in the 4.6 Vs. 3.8? Also, it is surprising to me that the 3.8 was quicker off the line, however, I was looking that the gearing and the 3.8 gearing should be a bit quicker.

The bottom line, you have illustrated that the suspension is more a "matter of taste" than an "improper" setup. I am not saying there is no room for improvement, in fact, I am hoping that Hyundai will continuously strive to improve on their efforts.

I am hoping that for 2010, they will change the packages and allow me to have the 17 speaker Lexicon and HID headlights without having to also have the Navigation system, or, make those options part of the premium plus package.

Again, thank you!!! I had basically removed the Genesis from my shopping list because of this and the electronic gremlins mentioned here.

 

[Mark_888]

Again, thank you!!! I had basically removed the Genesis from my shopping list because of this.

I don't believe you. Why can't you just drive the car and decide for yourself whether you like the suspension?

 

[ImInPA]

Mark, I have driven the Genesis. It was just a very brief run some months back. I am shopping a few cars actually. I take my time, I do a lot of research, when I am ready to buy I do rather extensive test drives and ALWAYS in the exact vehicle I will be purchasing. That said, even if I like a car, if I read about "serious" issues with a particular car, it gives me pause. Since the "suspension issue" of the Genesis is "road dependent," and knowing that it is unlikely that I would be able to take a test drive that would encounter all types and conditions of roads, it would simply be safer for me to just pass the Genesis by rather than take a chance of ending up disappointed like you and doug.

Now that the two major complainers have been largely discredited, I will add the Genesis back to my "potential" purchase list. BTW, when I did my brief test drive in a 4.6 Genesis, I was rather impressed, but, did notice the firmness of the suspension.

Unlike those that are very disappointed, I will bide my time and wait and see what tomorrow brings to the Genesis. I am really impressed with the Genesis, but, I do have a soft spot for the BMW 5 series. I was not that impressed with the Lincoln MKS...nice electronics, but seemed like a gussied up Taurus. I was surprisingly impressed with the MB C300 4matic Luxury model and even more so with the new Audi A4. Interior is a bit weak, but the ride an handling is very nice. Unfortunately, the nearest Infinity dealer to me is over 50 miles away, and that would just suck for service. The amazing thing to me, is that a Hyundai is even in the list with the other vehicles I am considering. Not too shabby for a first time at bat.

 

[sandy]

This thread is about possible (or probable) changes to the suspension in the 2010 model. I would request that moderators move the above post (and others that are off-subject) to another thread.

I would request that moderators move Mark off the forum. Post #86 is about the third or fourth time he has accused posters who have points of view different than his of being liars. Also, he is annoying as hell.

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[Mark_888]

Mark, I have driven the Genesis. It was just a very brief run some months back. I am shopping a few cars actually. I take my time, I do a lot of research, when I am ready to buy I do rather extensive test drives and ALWAYS in the exact vehicle I will be purchasing. That said, even if I like a car, if I read about "serious" issues with a particular car, it gives me pause. Since the "suspension issue" of the Genesis is "road dependent," and knowing that it is unlikely that I would be able to take a test drive that would encounter all types and conditions of roads, it would simply be safer for me to just pass the Genesis by rather than take a chance of ending up disappointed like you and doug.

Now that the two major complainers have been largely discredited, I will add the Genesis back to my "potential" purchase list. BTW, when I did my brief test drive in a 4.6 Genesis, I was rather impressed, but, did notice the firmness of the suspension.

Unlike those that are very disappointed, I will bide my time and wait and see what tomorrow brings to the Genesis. I am really impressed with the Genesis, but, I do have a soft spot for the BMW 5 series. I was not that impressed with the Lincoln MKS...nice electronics, but seemed like a gussied up Taurus. I was surprisingly impressed with the MB C300 4matic Luxury model and even more so with the new Audi A4. Interior is a bit weak, but the ride an handling is very nice. Unfortunately, the nearest Infinity dealer to me is over 50 miles away, and that would just suck for service. The amazing thing to me, is that a Hyundai is even in the list with the other vehicles I am considering. Not too shabby for a first time at bat.

You will wait until 2010 because you know (or suspect there is a reasonable possibility) that the suspension will be improved without any sacrifice in handling.

To say that Doug and myself are the only ones complaining is grossly inaccurate to the point of total misrepresentation of the facts. Many people and many professional reviewers have commented negatively on the suspension. You must not have read all the posts on this forum where many people have been disappointed. Many others are afraid to speak up because they know that a coordinated campaign of character assassination will be aimed at them if they do voice their concerns.

There was one other person on this forum who sold his Genesis back to his dealer after 1 day, and took a $9K loss on the deal. But I would not put myself in the same category as that person or Doug. I have no intention of selling my car.

Insead of lauching ad hominem attacks on members of this forum, I have worked hard on behalf of all owners to:

1. Make sure Hyundai is aware of the issue (they are).
2. Persuade Hyundai to make the 2010 changes available to 2009 owners for those who want it.

I can tell you this for relative certainty. Those who who have been at the forefront of attacking 2009 owners who have complained about the suspension, will (generally) be the first ones to line up at the Hyundai dealership for a mod if Hyundai offers one to 2009 owners.

 

[Mark_888]

I would request that moderators move Mark off the forum. Post #86 is about the third or fourth time he has accused posters who have points of view different than his of being liars. Also, he is annoying as hell.

I responded to the person who called me a liar for posting facts about what I was told by a Hyundai employee.

 

[doug725]

Unfortuately, the people who berate me for posting and claim I did not do my homework clearly haven't done theirs and actually read anything I posted. The exact opposite is true and that was part of the problem. So instead we continue with attacks - yet I never seem to attack anyone who disagrees with me. By all means continue to blame the poster and the roads if that makes you feel better. Convince me why 23 other cars can handle the same roads OK and my Genny can't. Again, if you like how it rides congratulations. I know a slightly used white 3.8 I'd be happy to sell you.

Why in heaven's name would I be willing to lose $6,500 on a car if the ride was so smooth and delightful or just a little rough on certain roads like all other cars. Please. I live with the car and I know what it does - including it's inconsistency. The dealer offered me maybe (their words) $28K on trade -more likely $27,500 (their words). However, as I explained previously, their trio of dealers has nothing I wanted (not getting another Hyundai at this point and Volkswagen spotty reliability). Every other dealer has offered $26K. Good luck - thanks to all those who sent info and shared.

 

[ImInPA]

You will wait until 2010 because you know (or suspect there is a reasonable possibility) that the suspension will be improved without any sacrifice in handling.

To say that Doug and myself are the only ones complaining is grossly inaccurate to the point of total misrepresentation of the facts. Many people and many professional reviewers have commented negatively on the suspension. You must not have read all the posts on this forum where many people have been disappointed. Many others are afraid to speak up because they know that a coordinated campaign of character assassination will be aimed at them if they do voice their concerns.

There was one other person on this forum who sold his Genesis back to his dealer after 1 day, and took a $9K loss on the deal. But I would not put myself in the same category as that person or Doug. I have no intention of selling my car.

Insead of lauching ad hominem attacks on members of this forum, I have worked hard on behalf of all owners to:

1. Make sure Hyundai is aware of the issue (they are).
2. Persuade Hyundai to make the 2010 changes available to 2009 owners for those who want it.

I can tell you this for relative certainty. Those who who have been at the forefront of attacking 2009 owners who have complained about the suspension, will (generally) be the first ones to line up at the Hyundai dealership for a mod if Hyundai offers one to 2009 owners.

Mark. I have not seen any members attacking you or doug. In fact it seems that most are very patient with you as am I. No ad hominem fallacies have been presented either, that I have seen. I have seen you engage in the following logical fallacies of ad baculum, "Appeal to Authority," "False Dilemma," "Biased Sample," and Circumstantial Ad Hominem. These are just off the top of my head.

Sandy may be being a bit harsh in requesting your removal from the forum (maybe just a bit though). Mark, you still continue to site your interpretation of magazines that support your claims. I have told you that I have read the same articles and have come away with a different interpretation. That does not make me wrong. You need to be more tolerant of people that do not agree with you in totality. When you call someone a liar, it is you committing the ad hominem.

I wish you all the best and truly feel for you and doug's disappointment with the vehicle you purchased. Perhaps you should have been more patient like I am.

 

[Mark_888]

ImInPA,

You said I had "credibility issues" and was passing out "dis-information." To me that is an ad hominem comment toward me, and I categorically deny those claims.

Regarding the magazine reviews, yes you are entitled to your opinion, and I am entitled to mine. I don't think the world will come to an end if we voice our differences.

Regarding my disbelief of your statements that I voiced above, I find it hard to believe that you would suddenly and unequivocally change your mind based on the opinion of one member (BacktoHyundaibychoice). It seems more likely that you would extensively test drive the car and decide for yourself if you had concerns about the suspension.

Compared to most of the incredibly trivial complaints I see here on this forum about the Genesis, I believe that the suspension concerns are more legitimate than most, and are shared by a substantial number of people, although not everyone agrees as to how serious the problem is. My opinion is that the suspension issue is not a "major" concern, only moderate, but I still would like to see it improved. And I firmly believe that it is in Hyundai's best interest for them to do so as quickly as possible. Hyundai is very concerned about "branding" and building a new image, and this is the opportunity for them to step up to the challenge.

 

[holladay]

OK, I've been quiet for a month now. I told Doug I wouldn't post anything about our test drives where we swapped cars and drove one of his "worst" problem roads. I made that promise on the assumption that if he posted more, he'd represent things factually and honestly. But the longer this drags on, the bigger the disservice to readers/potential buyers and Hyundai itself. Please note that this is written without malice or name-calling. In fact, Doug seemed like a pretty good guy.
Here is my account of driving Doug's car, and I'm sure Doug will correct anything I've misremembered:
1. We met at our mutual dealer (Pugi) on a cold Sunday morning. After some discussion of the 150lbs of salt in my trunk, tire pressure, winter driving, etc., Doug drove my car out of the lot with me following in his.
2. We drove on bumpy, potholed Ogden Avenue to I-355 heading North. At Roosevelt we turned around for the trip back to the dealer. Total driving time was maybe 20 minutes (?), but over the route Doug chose.
3. We then compared notes.
4. I said that I felt none of the ride he'd described, and in fact his ride was "smoother" than in my car. There was certainly no behaviour that would cause nausea, leg numbness, or loss of control.
5. I also commented to Doug (and my wife later) that his car was actually more fun to drive than mine. It was quicker off the line and the steering felt "lighter" and more responsive. I speculated that maybe the fewer pounds caused that feeling.
6. Doug's impression of my car was that the ride was the same as his, maybe even harsher.
7. At that point we agreed to disagree and moved on.
One last point:
Doug has written that he's only been offered 26K on a trade. What I haven't seen written yet (though I may very well have missed it) is that Pugi offered him 28K on a trade at their shop. That would include Hyundai, VW, and Mazda.

Once again, I'm sure Doug will correct anything I've gotten wrong. But too many people have invested too much time in this for me to maintain silence.

Just curious BacktoHyundaibychoice,
Do you feel the 150 lbs of salt in your trunk improves the ride over rough roads? I'm still riding with 160 lbs in my trunk and I can definitely say it improves my ride.

 

[sandy]

Sandy may be being a bit harsh in requesting your removal from the forum (maybe just a bit though).

Mark, I apologize. It was partially tounge in cheek.

 

[ImInPA]

Mark: You are entitled to your opinion. But, believe it or not, the one post and the poster I find to be very credible. I do hope Hyundai will make improvements as well. I am still following the threads concerning the electrical issues. As Shakespeare once wrote,"thou dost protest too much." It is more how you respond to people that do not agree with you and forcing your interpretation of the reviews that tends to seem like disinformation. I am glad that the suspension is only a minor peeve to you. In a luxury car review through the wine country of CA (not sure which magazine as I generally only read them at my dentist's office) they panned the BMW 550i for have a "busy and far to bouncy" ride to be a luxury car. They did say it handled better than the others, however, they gave the top spot to the Jaguar XF. In the articles that I have read about the Genesis, they pan it compared to other "sport sedans" and always make mention that it is far more luxury than sport.

Doug, as far as VW's "spotty reliability": I currently have a 2005 Passat TDI. I was concerned about VW's as well. My Passat is the first vehicle I have ever owned that has had zero problems. In fact, at 83k I still have the original brakes, the original tires delivered over 50k miles, and most people who ride in it almost always comment on the tightness and rattle-free nature of the car. I guess everyone makes a bad car, but, I can honestly tell you that my concerns about VW reliability are gone. When I had my car in for it's 80k service a few weeks ago, I took a nice long test drive of the new CC. Very impressed with that car, however, I think the V6 models are just too overpriced, especially considering the new Audi A4. I will say that a fully loaded 2.0T seems to be a reasonable vehicle and just a tick or two off from the V6 performance-wise.

 

[BacktoHyundaibychoice]

Just curious BacktoHyundaibychoice,
Do you feel the 150 lbs of salt in your trunk improves the ride over rough roads? I'm still riding with 160 lbs in my trunk and I can definitely say it improves my ride.

I can't say for sure. I put it in there for driving in snow 1week after getting the car. Old trick for RWD. It'll be coming out April 1 or so, and I'm curious too.

 

[ctrcbob]

Today, my wife and I took two friends out in the Genesis. Two in front and two in back. The extra weight did cause the rear suspension to make the ride better (softer).

BTW, they were impressed with the Genesis <grin>