2011 Equus is Announced

[jwaters943]

The more I see the happier I am I bought the Genny even with the Harsh ride.

As per usual, I disagree 100% with you.

The more I see, the more I want to sell my soul to the devil in order to afford one.

 

[Dimitry]

I bet leases will be in the 700-800 area, if they subsidize the leases the way I think they will...

 

[ajls09873]

why hyundai did not create luxury division?
I know it is a freaking expensive.(3 billion $? Right?)
But, Luxury buyes buy brand image. This is important.
Hyundai should create luxury brand before Equus launch. if not, don't launching Equus.
'Showroom in Showroom, but Completely seperated brand' is better cost effective approaching.

 

[Dimitry]

From my understanding, there is a lengthy process to become a "premium" Equus dealership - which involves flying out certain staff to Korea for orientation for two weeks, among other certifications. I'm sure they will accurately reflect the "luxury" experience.

I've heard they'll bring the car out to you to test drive, and drop off a loaner to pick up yours if you need it serviced. Similar things to what I've seen BMW among other luxury brands do.

They need to maintain profitability to keep the prices competitive. Would you buy the Equus or Genesis if it had a 20% premium on its current price? The best way they can do that is this, and I'm very happy that they didn't open up some separate "premium" dealerships that would pass the costs along to us.

They didn't launch to Equus to be a profitable car. They want people to know that Hyundai can make one of the finest sedans in the world, and they are sure giving their A game.

 

[ajls09873]

At least, They need remove Hyundai badge at the rear.
It is same mistake as Lexus LS with Toyota badge, Audi A8 with VW badge, Infiniti Q with Nissan badge.

 

[ajls09873]

this rear badge is better.

 

[jwaters943]

why hyundai did not create luxury division?
I know it is a freaking expensive.(3 billion $? Right?)
But, Luxury buyes buy brand image. This is important.
Hyundai should create luxury brand before Equus launch. if not, don't launching Equus.
'Showroom in Showroom, but Completely seperated brand' is better cost effective approaching.

All in good time. This is here to improve perceptions of Hyundai, nothing more. They aren't planning on even making money on the Equus in the U.S. to the best of my knowledge.

 

[Hghwy52]

I wonder if Nissan were launching the Infiniti today whether they would follow the Genesis or Lexus model. The platforms are different, rwd vs fwd, and they would be able to sell them for several thousand less and still make the same profit and would have a much larger dealer network. They might still feel the need to copy Lexus but I don't know how much they really compete with Lexus anyway. The same goes for Acura. Lexus is really the only Asian car maker to really thrive with a separate luxury brand.

 

[Mark_888]

At least, They need remove Hyundai badge at the rear.

As as been said many times before, HMA is importing the Equus to promote the Hyundai brand image, not to sell a lot of Equus units, which is why it comes with a Hyundai logo on it. Not calling it a Hyundai would defeat that purpose (even if dealers or customers replace the "H" with the Korean logo).

The number of car buyers who are considering a Camry or Accord and even consider a Sonata is improving, but is still not where HMA would like it to be, and not where it should be based on any objective comparison of the Sonata with the Honda and Toyota competition. Importing the Equus (originally made for the Korean domestic market) will help improve the brand image and peak the curiosity of the public to consider the other Hyundai mass market models that are the bread and butter of the company sales volume.

 

[Mark_888]

The same goes for Acura. Lexus is really the only Asian car maker to really thrive with a separate luxury brand.

Acura was the first Japanese luxury brand, and had its own dealers from the beginning. They were quite successful for many years, but have fallen victim to pandering to the automotive press, who typically value "originality and distinctiveness" over functionality, quality, and traditional styling. The 2010 TL styling fiasco is the disastrous culmination of that pandering, and has pretty much doomed the company until the next major styling change.

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[jwaters943]

Acura's unwillingness to actually compete in the luxury segment hurts them more than anything (no RWD, no V8, no car with more than approx. 300 hp, no 7/8 speed auto, no DSG, no full size sedan, no coupes, no performance models ala AMG, M, F, V, etc.). They were successful for many years because they were competitive. But as with Honda, they've simply stopped trying to keep up with the competition.

 

[Mark_888]

Acura's unwillingness to actually compete in the luxury segment hurts them more than anything (no RWD, no V8, no car with more than approx. 300 hp, no 7/8 speed auto, no DSG, no full size sedan, no coupes, no performance models ala AMG, M, F, V, etc.). They were successful for many years because they were competitive. But as with Honda, they've simply stopped trying to keep up with the competition.

Your claim that Honda does not keep up with the competition is ridiculous. The Accord, Civic, and Odyssey, and others are formidable products.

You are correct about their avoidance of RWD, V8's, and big cars (although the RL is decent sized). But that is based on two things:

1. The lack of a market for large cars in Japan, which has extremely high population density, and where large cars are impractical.
2. The upcoming CAFE rules requiring approximately 35 MPG average for each manufacture by 2016 for cars sold in the US.

So it is yet to be determined who will be still standing in the luxury car market in the last half of the the upcoming decade.

 

[jwaters943]

Your claim that Honda does not keep up with the competition is ridiculous. The Accord, Civic, and Odyssey, and others are formidable products.

You are correct about their avoidance of RWD, V8's, and big cars (although the RL is decent sized). But that is based on two things:

1. The lack of a market for large cars in Japan, which has extremely high population density, and where large cars are impractical.
2. The upcoming CAFE rules requiring approximately 35 MPG average for each manufacture by 2016 for cars sold in the US.

So it is yet to be determined who will be still standing in the luxury car market in the last half of the the upcoming decade.

The only thing that's ridiculous is that you believe this. It's 2010, not 2000. Today Honda is merely average or class-competitive overall. They are riding on their reputation and have been for some time. For every single one of the successes over the past decade, I can think of a vehicle that fell well short of the mark or simply failed to meet sales goals (both Insights, Del Sol, Ridgeline, Element, 1st-gen Odyssey, Accord Hybrid, RL, new TL, RDX, ZDX, Accord Crossturd). The Crosstour was supposed to sell 40k per year and is on track to sell approx. 25k. The Insight was supposed to sell 40k units per year. It's on track to sell less than 15k. The ZDX was supposed to sell a paltry 6k units per year. They're on track to sell only 2k....PER YEAR! And this is after deep discounting. You don't see anything wrong with this? Not to mention, Hyundai, and others have vehicles with both more power AND superior fuel economy (Pilot vs. Lambda CUVs, new Sonata/Optima vs. Accord/TSX, Genesis V8 vs. RL, Prius vs. Insight, etc.). Mark my words, the new CR-Z will fail as well. No one wants a compact 2 seater that does 0-60 in 9+ seconds and only gets 35 mpg.

As for your CAFE argument, that's precisely why luxury automakers will be releasing more hybrids, diesels, and lower-priced, smaller, and more efficient entry-level models (MB B Class is coming here, as is a new FWD BMW, and possibly the Audi A1 as well). Where is Acura's hybrid luxury sedan? Where are there fuel-saving 7/8 speed autos? Where are their diesels? Where is AVTEC? These were things we were promised by Honda that never came to be. They are being mismanaged into the ground, and it's precisely why they are slipping in sales and have been surpassed by other automakers, Hyundai included.

Besides, you do realize that automakers aren't forced to meet CAFE requirements, right? They can buy credits from other manufacturers. I'm sure Honda and Acura are bunched together, so I say leave the efficient cars for Honda and give Acura a V8 already. Work on a better V6 and hybrid system while they're at it because the J-Series and IMA system are neither terribly powerful, nor more efficient than the competition. IMO V8 luxury cars aren't going anywhere anytime soon, you'll just likely pay a bit more for the privilege of driving one.

 

[Mark_888]

The only thing that's ridiculous is that you believe this. It's 2010, not 2000. Honda is merely average or class-competitive overall. For every single one of the successes over the past decade, I can think of a vehicle that fell well short of the mark or simply failed to meet sales goals.

For someone who claims to not be (or ever been) in the auto business, you seem to know a lot of about sales targets.

I don't believe that there are very many manufacturers who have meet sales targets in the last two or three years due to the global recession. Hyundai/Kia is an exception, but they have an advantage of a monopoly in their domestic market, and they are coming from fairly far behind Toyota, Honda, etc in the global market.

It is usually easier to grow a company that has a smaller larger market share than it is to grow when market share is already high. Hyundai has increased its market share with some excellent new products and great marketing, but that in no way means that Honda products are inferior.

 

[jwaters943]

I know about sales projections because I'm active on SEVERAL automotive related forums, and have been for over 10 years. We have sales threads every month over on www.carlounge.net, but feel free to go on believing whatever you want about what I do for a living. FYI, the sales projections for the ZDX, Accord Crosstour, and Insight were made after the economy went sour, and there have been plenty of automobiles launched in the past 2 years that have met or exceeded their annual sales projections. Off the top of my head: Prius, Legacy/Outback, Forester, RX, SRX, Terrain/Equinox, Fusion, MKS, Taurus, and Lacrosse.

And if Honda/Acura still makes superior products, why did you buy a Genesis over an RL or TL? Just wondering.

The sad truth is, Honda has nothing that truly competes with the Genesis sedan or coupe, let alone the Equus. And the Sonata is the new mid-size sedan benchmark. It's only a matter of time until Honda slips another notch from #2 to #3. It's hard to remember that they used to be #1 in the segment since the Camry has held onto the spot for so long.

 

[Mark_888]

,,,And if Honda/Acura still makes superior products, why did you buy a Genesis over an RL or TL? Just wondering.

I probably would have bought a TL if not for the horrible styling and poor rear view visibility. But I never exactly used the word "superior" when talking about Honda, I just don't think they are in the toilet as you suggest.

The sad truth is, Honda has nothing that truly competes with the Genesis sedan or coupe, let alone the Equus. And the Sonata is the new mid-size sedan benchmark. It's only a matter of time until Honda slips another notch from #2 to #3. It's hard to remember that they used to be #1 in the segment since the Camry has held onto the spot for so long.

Because of pricing, I don't think anyone has something to compete with the Genesis sedan. Hyundai has chosen to buy market share in their Hyundai Genesis pricing (even after adjusting for different features on the Korean model, one only has to look at the Korean pricing to understand that the US Genesis is priced well below what the car sells for in Korea). The Hyundai Genesis coupe is not selling so well.

Certainly the 2011 Sonata is a fine car, but so is the current Accord (I looked at the 2009 rather extensively). The Accord is on the Car and Driver 2010 Top Ten list, and has been on the list 24 times (more than any other car).

Since Hyundai only expects to sell 1-3K Equus per year in the US, it doesn't matter if Honda or anyone else has something to compete with it. It is a nit since Hyundai hopes to sell 3.5 million vehicles worldwide in 2010. The Equus is being imported to sell Sonata's, etc, not to make money selling the Equus. Honda doesn't need to create a new luxury car to improve its brand image of its bread and butter lines.

The new Sonata is a fine car, but doesn't diminish the Accord IMO. Both are fine cars.

 

[ilovemygenesis]

From my understanding, there is a lengthy process to become a "premium" Equus dealership - which involves flying out certain staff to Korea for orientation for two weeks, among other certifications. I'm sure they will accurately reflect the "luxury" experience.

That is correct, I went in for maintenance on my genny at the Danbury dealership on Saturday and i spoke with a service tech who said Hyundai is creating a luxury brand under the name Genesis. Their dealership will participate in the process, however they will need to apply and go through a rigorous process before they can be considered. They will have to have the owner of the dealership go out to Korea, as well as the production plant down south, they have to completely change over the whole showroom, staff needs to be trained etc. She said this will be a 2 year process but it could happen sooner if more dealerships decide to participate. Everyone should go to their dealer and see if they will participate. At least the good news is Hyundai has decided to create a luxury brand and the process is underway, i can't wait to see what their luxury SUV will be...

 

[DavidNJ]

I probably would have bought a TL if not for the horrible styling and poor rear view visibility. But I never exactly used the word "superior" when talking about Honda, I just don't think they are in the toilet as you suggest.

The only thing that's ridiculous is that you believe this. It's 2010, not 2000. Today Honda is merely average or class-competitive overall. They are riding on their reputation and have been for some time. For every single one of the successes over the past decade,

IMHO, and as much as it pains me to agree with someone as rude as jwaters, he is right here. Honda's products are bland and in the case of Acuras down right ugly.

As a company they have contempt for their customers. You can see it in the way they package safety equipment, forcing you to buy the top of the line model to get ABS or stability control. On the Fit they took that arrogance to new levels, requiring you to buy a rather poorly done navigation system to get stability control.

As the owner of now my second S2000 I can say from personal experience that their corporate customer relations and entire corporate service related organization are deceptive and try to take advantage of customers.

If you follow the S2000 forums you will find many people have had trouble with their convertible tops. The defect is a combination of materials and a defective frame that fails and drives its metal tab through the top. The dealer's service manager recognized this immediately.

They delayed issuing a service bulletin and extended warranty until the bulk of S2000s went off warranty. In my case the dealer tried to fix in under a customer satisfaction program and was prevented from doing it. The corporate customer service stone walls from the first call.

For me, I wouldn't buy or recommend ANY Honda product to anyone. Period.

 

[Mark_888]

IMHO, and as much as it pains me to agree with someone as rude as jwaters, he is right here. Honda's products are bland and in the case of Acuras down right ugly.

I agree that the new Acuras are ugly. I don't have any problem with the styling of the Honda brands, and besides, I am not particularly into "innovative" styling, which is one reason I like the Genesis.

As a company they have contempt for their customers. You can see it in the way they package safety equipment, forcing you to buy the top of the line model to get ABS or stability control. On the Fit they took that arrogance to new levels, requiring you to buy a rather poorly done navigation system to get stability control.

Unfortunately, successful companies where demand is high for their products (such as Honda) do tend to raise prices, or make things extra cost options. Same has happened to MB (as has been discussed in the forum). You may not like the company for doing that, but that does not make their vehicles bad, it just makes them more expensive. If there weren't selling a lot cars doing that, they wouldn't do it anymore.

In any case, stability control is mandatory in US cars starting with the 2012 model year (and will be available in most cars by 2011 model year).

 

[DavidNJ]

It is one thing to make leather interior or power seats unavailable, quite another to make ABS, stability control, or side curtain airbags. The latter reflects a cynical view toward their customers.