2013 Genesis Coupe Accident - Locking Brakes

[wood6415]

Hello: I wonder if someone could provide me with some advice. We are a car loving family and recently bought a manual 2013 Genesis Couple. It was a beautiful car and fun to drive...until today. I had an alignment, front brakes and new tires put on the car on Thursday. The accident happened two days later and it hadn't been driven much since Thursday. There were no check engine lights.

While driving in a residential area about 50 miles an hour and coming up to a slight curve, my son applied the breaks. The car started skidding in a straight-line crossing the center line of the road. The steering wheel was turned all the way to the right to attempt to bring the car back to the right side of the road. The car kept traveling in a straight-line with the tires locked and it did not seem as if the ABS worked at all during the skid. The car ended up hopping the curb and stopped in a field. There is a bunch of suspension damage, air bag deployment and broken windshield (from the air bags) but not much body damage at all.

Does anyone have any input into why the brakes would lock up and skid like that? I seems as if there was some sort of defect. I would think the ABS would have allowed him to steer the car. There was no steering at all. The car went straight and the skid marks are perfectly straight. He didn't hear any noise or feel the ABS piston's engaging. Would you hazard that this was a Genesis Coupe defect or a mechanic issue? Has anyone else experienced this with a Hyundai Genesis Coupe? Thank you in advance.

 

[Aquineas]

First of all I'm really sorry about your accident. I hope no one was seriously hurt. That being said, you posted in the sedan forum, and while you might get some knowledgeable people here about the Coupe, you'd have a better shot posting in this forum (https://genesisowners.com/hyundai-genesis-forum/forumdisplay.php?25-General-2009-2016-Genesis-Coupe-Discussion

 

[Mark_888]

I had an alignment, front brakes and new tires put on the car on Thursday.

Who did the work?

 

[1FstYota]

Glad everyone is okay, but sounds like your son went into the turn at a good amount speed and got scared applied brakes which you don't do in a turn cause a understeer situation and hit a curb. New tires are slick as hell from all the oils and release agents.

 

[wood6415]

Hello: I wonder if someone could provide me with some advice. We are a car loving family and recently bought a manual 2013 Genesis Couple. It was a beautiful car and fun to drive...until today. I had an alignment, front brakes and new tires put on the car on Thursday. The accident happened two days later and it hadn't been driven much since Thursday. There were no check engine lights.

While driving in a residential area about 50 miles an hour and coming up to a slight curve, my son applied the breaks. The car started skidding in a straight-line crossing the center line of the road. The steering wheel was turned all the way to the right to attempt to bring the car back to the right side of the road. The car kept traveling in a straight-line with the tires locked and it did not seem as if the ABS worked at all during the skid. The car ended up hopping the curb and stopped in a field. There is a bunch of suspension damage, air bag deployment and broken windshield (from the air bags) but not much body damage at all.

Does anyone have any input into why the brakes would lock up and skid like that? I seems as if there was some sort of defect. I would think the ABS would have allowed him to steer the car. There was no steering at all. The car went straight and the skid marks are perfectly straight. He didn't hear any noise or feel the ABS piston's engaging. Would you hazard that this was a Genesis Coupe defect or a mechanic issue? Has anyone else experienced this with a Hyundai Genesis Coupe? Thank you in advance.[/QUOTE]

- - - Updated - - -

Hi all: Thanks for responding. The mechanic looked at the car this morning and did not see a problem with the brakes. I wonder if it was the combination of speed, slick tires and the curve. I thought it was so odd that the skid marks were so straight for about 30 feet though and he said he had the steering wheel turned to the right...I have never had that happen and he says he didn't feel the ABS pulsing...

Luckily he's fine and says he has learned from the experience! Thanks again.

 

[1FstYota]

Sounds like he went in the corner hot and understeered while he was on the brakes that explains the 30ft of straight skid marks, ABS be useless at that steering angle anyway. Should of ease up off the brakes and give it some go pedal and rotate the rear around.

 

[Mark_888]

I wonder if it was the combination of speed, slick tires and the curve.

You (or your son) is driving on slick tires? WTF are you thinking?

 

[glennk]

You (or your son) is driving on slick tires? WTF are you thinking?

Brand new tires with a young driver.

 

[Mark_888]

Brand new tires with a young driver.

Definitely, but no one should be driving around with tires worn past the "wear indicator" on the tires (which indicates some tread is still left). I replace my tires long before that happens.

 

[1FstYota]

Definitely, but no one should be driving around with tires worn past the "wear indicator" on the tires (which indicates some tread is still left). I replace my tires long before that happens.

It makes for some good drifting.

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[glennk]

Definitely, but no one should be driving around with tires worn past the "wear indicator" on the tires (which indicates some tread is still left). I replace my tires long before that happens.

I think he said the car had brand new tires and brakes?

 

[Mark_888]

I think he said the car had brand new tires and brakes?

You are correct. I wonder why he later said the following:

"I wonder if it was the combination of speed, slick tires and the curve."​

Someone mentioned above that new tires can be slick, but I have never heard of that unless they leave the sticker on the tire, but maybe I am misinformed on that issue.

Also, tire are not a commodity. There are good tires, and there poor/mediocre tires. Skimping on tire quality can endanger one's safety (or the safety of others). Many people buy tires based on price and the expected tread life only. But those are not the correct criteria to use IMO when selecting a tire. Breaking ability, handling, water and snow performance, etc, are critical issues when buying a tire.

Also, he never replied about who did the brake job, so I would be somewhat concerned about whether the anti-lock braking system is working properly unless a dealer did the work with OEM parts.

 

[1FstYota]

New tires are very slick from the mold release agents and oils, I almost looped the supra once after getting a new set of falkens put on.

Good or mediocre tires, you need to let them warm up, all we know is he got tires didn't drive the car much and his son took it. If he just went out right off the bat and took a turn at high speeds then yea grip is not optimal and understeer is what sounded like it happened.

 

[Mark_888]

New tires are very slick from the mold release agents and oils, I almost looped the supra once after getting a new set of falkens put on.

Good or mediocre tires, you need to let them warm up, all we know is he got tires didn't drive the car much and his son took it. If he just went out right off the bat and took a turn at high speeds then yea grip is not optimal and understeer is what sounded like it happened.

When driving on ice or snow, tires are not going to be warmed up, but the anti-lock braking system should be working. The driver should feel the brake pedal pulsating when anti-lock system is engaged, but the driver must keep the brakes pressed for it work.

OP did not respond as to who did the brake job, so I am a little suspicious about whether the anti-lock brakes are working OK. Or maybe his son was driving so fast around the curve, that even anti-lock brakes could not help much. Or like I said, maybe his son instinctively took his foot off the brakes when he started sliding, and the anti-lock brakes will not work in that case. Also, just because the brakes are pulsating (anti-lock system is working) is no guarantee that the car will not skid.

 

[1FstYota]

When driving on ice or snow, tires are not going to be warmed up, but the anti-lock braking system should be working. The driver should feel the brake pedal pulsating when anti-lock system is engaged, but the driver must keep the brakes pressed for it work.

OP did not respond as to who did the brake job, so I am a little suspicious about whether the anti-lock brakes are working OK. Or maybe his son was driving so fast around the curve, that even anti-lock brakes could not help much. Or like I said, maybe his son instinctively took his foot off the brakes when he started sliding, and the anti-lock brakes will not work in that case. Also, just because the brakes are pulsating (anti-lock system is working) is no guarantee that the car will not skid.

I don't know how much of race driving experience you have but most people should understand the understeer and oversteer and what to do in each situation. The original post gave away a lot of the scenario, unless you experienced an understeer related crash or near crash you won't get the jist of it.

He said 50mph, curve and that his steering wheels was turned all the way to the right to try and bring the car back, and that there was 30ft of straight skid marks, basically telling us that the car was in a understeer situation where he went into the turn hot tried to turn and the car went straight due to lack of available traction in the front tires at which point he probably nailed the brakes and cause the 30ft of skidmarks, ABS can't save you in that situation when steering is in full lock to the right or left.

You should try this find a open area and go 50 and turn to left or right as hard as you can and hit the brakes see what the car does, the genesis is a pig and it understeers like no ones business you really have to balance the car when doing a fast tight turn to really rotate the rear end around. This if you get it right will drift nicely on all 4 mxm tires.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=az_Vlgy5dbM

This video at 40 seconds highlights this situation perfectly, you can see the speed he was going and the turn he was going in and that the car went straight off a cliff.

 

[Mark_888]

...ABS can't save you in that situation...

I agree.

But the question is whether or not the anti-lock brakes at least tried to activate (are they working as designed). One way to know that is whether the brake pedal was pushed hard during the skid and did the driver feel the brake pedal pulsating. I am not 100% sure if that is a good test of the Genesis anti-lock brakes, but most anti-lock brakes I used in prior vehicles worked that way (pulsating brake peddle when activated).

 

[CanukV6]

A few comments:
All new tires need to be heat-cycled at least once before they will provide full grip. They need to be heated up to working temperature and ideally left to cool completely before driving again. Most road tires will get better after a few trips, but for soft compound track tires, the heat cycling is a must. By the same token, new brakes also require some 'bedding in' before providing full performance.
Anti-Lock brakes should work regardless of steering lock anytime the wheel(s) stop rotating unless there is a fault in the ABS. I suppose if the speed is high enough and/or the grip is low enough, the tire could still be rotating but skidding due to extreme understeer, but that is unusual. I would doubt that a driver would turn the steering wheel to full lock fast enough not to have some reaction to their input with or without brakes being applied.