$600 service bill?!?

[VivienM]

So a little while ago, I call up the dealer, and make an appointment for my dad to get an oil change (for an 09 sedan). Car has 6000km more than last time, so about 22000 kms (for our American friends, that's about $14K miles). He got it Nov. 2008.

I was looking at the bill, and it comes out to $600 (CAD). They did
- service #3 (which seems to be mostly a bunch of inspections)
- some kind of AC service
- new engine/cabin air filters
- brake service

(I can get the exact details of the bill)

Is it just me, or is there something utterly insane about this? (Normally, he takes the car in twice a year, gets the Hyundai Canada special winter/summer package, which includes oil change, some promo gift, and tire rotation, for about $100CAD)

 

[TJPark01]

So a little while ago, I call up the dealer, and make an appointment for my dad to get an oil change (for an 09 sedan). Car has 6000km more than last time, so about 22000 kms (for our American friends, that's about $14K miles). He got it Nov. 2008.

I was looking at the bill, and it comes out to $600 (CAD). They did
- service #3 (which seems to be mostly a bunch of inspections)
- some kind of AC service
- new engine/cabin air filters
- brake service

(I can get the exact details of the bill)

Is it just me, or is there something utterly insane about this? (Normally, he takes the car in twice a year, gets the Hyundai Canada special winter/summer package, which includes oil change, some promo gift, and tire rotation, for about $100CAD)

A/C service? Nothing to do that wouldn't be under warranty. Cabin filter, ok 30 bucks at the most. The air filter and brakes were probably changed prematurely. The air filter is probably 50 bucks. Sounds like you got hosed. They should have called you and asked if this was OK first. I would be pissed. $100 bucks sounds right. 600 is outrageous. I've had this car about 1.5 years and have changed the oil twice and rotated the tires. That's it. Total cost $50 USD.

 

[VivienM]

A/C service? Nothing to do that wouldn't be under warranty. Cabin filter, ok 30 bucks at the most. The air filter and brakes were probably changed prematurely. The air filter is probably 50 bucks. Sounds like you got hosed. They should have called you and asked if this was OK first. I would be pissed. $100 bucks sounds right. 600 is outrageous. I've had this car about 1.5 years and have changed the oil twice and rotated the tires. That's it. Total cost $50 USD.

One primary note: this is Canada. We get screwed. Take what an American would pay, and double it, and that's probably about average...

Yup, AC service is over $200 on the bill. "AC EVAP SERVICE WITH INSPECTION" it says. One hour of (more expensive even though it's the same dude) labour, a K7410 AC KIT 2, and some other part that says "A/C EVAP SERVICE".

Brakes weren't CHANGED, just serviced. Pads have 9mm left (out of 10, I assume). They just cleaned them and did stuff that involved sandpaper (there's a $2 materials charge for that) and a grinding disc and brake cleaner.

Cabin filter is ~80-90 according to my research. Part wasn't in, so it hasn't been charged for yet. (Interestingly, my research suggests dealers charge the same for Elantras).

I'm taking the car in for my dad tomorrow to get the cabin filter changed. Let's just say I'll be in a very grumpy mood. He may have authorized some of that, but honestly? Just how vigilant does he need to be?!

 

[TJPark01]

One primary note: this is Canada. We get screwed. Take what an American would pay, and double it, and that's probably about average...

Yup, AC service is over $200 on the bill. "AC EVAP SERVICE WITH INSPECTION" it says. One hour of (more expensive even though it's the same dude) labour, a K7410 AC KIT 2, and some other part that says "A/C EVAP SERVICE".

Brakes weren't CHANGED, just serviced. Pads have 9mm left (out of 10, I assume). They just cleaned them and did stuff that involved sandpaper (there's a $2 materials charge for that) and a grinding disc and brake cleaner.

Cabin filter is ~80-90 according to my research. Part wasn't in, so it hasn't been charged for yet. (Interestingly, my research suggests dealers charge the same for Elantras).

I'm taking the car in for my dad tomorrow to get the cabin filter changed. Let's just say I'll be in a very grumpy mood. He may have authorized some of that, but honestly? Just how vigilant does he need to be?!

I'd be getting ready to fight someone if I was handed a bill for $600 for nothing regardless of what country I'm in. The brake thing is horsesh**. You either change the pads or replace the rotors, that's it. On a 2 year old car, you don't do either. Unless something has malfunctioned. Cleaning the brakes is like farting in a hurricane. Pointless and no one is going to notice.
Let me ask you this, do you know how to replace a vacuum bag? Well changing the cabin airfilter in this car is about as complicated as that.

I'm sorry if I seem abrasive, but you are getting f**cked by the dealer. I'd be making a hell of a stink and threatening them with legal action.

**EDIT - The EVAP system? Are you kidding me with that. First of all if there was a leak in the EVAP system )which is part of the emmisions control system, your check engine light would come one and your mileage may even suffer. They're handing you a turd sandwich and asking you to not only take a bite but to pay for it. Take this bill to any reputable mechanic and he will laugh.

 

[VivienM]

**EDIT - The EVAP system? Are you kidding me with that. First of all if there was a leak in the EVAP system )which is part of the emmisions control system, your check engine light would come one and your mileage may even suffer. They're handing you a turd sandwich and asking you to not only take a bite but to pay for it. Take this bill to any reputable mechanic and he will laugh.

I think they mean the air conditioner evaporator, not EVAP in the emissions control sense...

But yes. The more I look at this thing, the more my blood is boiling.

Oh, and just to make it marginally more insulting, they turned the headlights to off instead of auto. And since my dad seems to assume that because he is paying for a car with auto headlights his headlights will turn on automatically, the car was driven for a day or two before it was noticed that only the DRLs were on. (Another country-specific thing: I understand you guys don't get DRLs. We have to by law.)

 

[TJPark01]

I think they mean the air conditioner evaporator, not EVAP in the emissions control sense...

But yes. The more I look at this thing, the more my blood is boiling.

Oh, and just to make it marginally more insulting, they turned the headlights to off instead of auto. And since my dad seems to assume that because he is paying for a car with auto headlights his headlights will turn on automatically, the car was driven for a day or two before it was noticed that only the DRLs were on. (Another country-specific thing: I understand you guys don't get DRLs. We have to by law.)

Some cars have DRL's some dont, it's not a law, but some cars just come with them. On my BMW i can turn them off and on as I choose.
The A/C system charge is bogus. Unless your A/C is busted they don't need to touch it. Some people complain that there is a smell of mold or wet sock, when they first turn on the A/C. It's condensation in the A/C fan, #1 it's normal. #2, all you do is turn on the fan, and spray a little lysol in the intake of the fan, which takes 2 minutes, and costs nothing.

 

[Mark_888]

I don't really have a lot of sympathy for you. You should never go to a dealer and get XX,XXX km (or mile) service package, or seasonal service package done on any car. Spend a few minutes looking at the owners manual and determine the required service intervals and ask the dealer for a quote on those specific items only. Ignore the inspections. They will inspect things like brakes for free (without you asking) to see if they can make money on a brake pad change.

When the car was brought in, you should have asked for a quote in advance for:

• cabin filter
• air filter
• oil change

That's it.

If you don't have time to read the manual and ask for specific service items, then the dealer will interpret the service requirements in their favor, not yours.

 

[TJPark01]

I don't really have a lot of sympathy for you. You should never go to a dealer and get XX,XXX km (or mile) service package, or seasonal service package done on any car. Spend a few minutes looking at the owners manual and determine the required service intervals and ask the dealer for a quote on those specific items only. Ignore the inspections. They will inspect things like brakes for free (without you asking) to see if they can make money on a brake pad change.

When the car was brought in, you should have asked for a quote in advance for:

• cabin filter
• air filter
• oil change

That's it.

If you don't have time to read the manual and ask for specific service items, then the dealer will interpret the service requirements in their favor, not yours.

Pretty much. Remember it's a business, at it's core, its function is to make money. They will pray on the uninformed. It's a lesson learned I guess. I'd still want to punch someone at the dealership for that behavior.

 

[VivienM]

I don't really have a lot of sympathy for you. You should never go to a dealer and get XX,XXX km (or mile) service package, or seasonal service package done on any car. Spend a few minutes looking at the owners manual and determine the required service intervals and ask the dealer for a quote on those specific items only. Ignore the inspections. They will inspect things like brakes for free (without you asking) to see if they can make money on a brake pad change.

When the car was brought in, you should have asked for a quote in advance for:

• cabin filter
• air filter
• oil change

That's it.

If you don't have time to read the manual and ask for specific service items, then the dealer will interpret the service requirements in their favor, not yours.

A few things:
1) When I called them up to make the appointment, I told them VERY clearly "oil change.". That was it.
2) I don't know what exactly went down when my dad went there. I don't know what language they spoke in, etc. (my dad's English isn't exactly the best)
3) I've been looking at Hyundai stealerships' recommended maintenance schedules. There's lots of crap like 'servicing' iridium spark plugs at 42K kms. I can't find this AC crap on any of them.
4) I wouldn't be objecting to the $110 'service 3'. A little pricy. Fine. It's the extra stuff that gets to me...

Look, if it was my car, I can tell you things would have been a whole lot different. But honestly, does my dad really need his just-about-to-move-back-out-of-town son to look over his shoulder every time he takes the car in for service? Other dealers in the past were never this bad...

 

[JDC]

A few things:
1) When I called them up to make the appointment, I told them VERY clearly "oil change.". That was it.
2) I don't know what exactly went down when my dad went there. I don't know what language they spoke in, etc. (my dad's English isn't exactly the best)
3) I've been looking at Hyundai stealerships' recommended maintenance schedules. There's lots of crap like 'servicing' iridium spark plugs at 42K kms. I can't find this AC crap on any of them.
4) I wouldn't be objecting to the $110 'service 3'. A little pricy. Fine. It's the extra stuff that gets to me...

Look, if it was my car, I can tell you things would have been a whole lot different. But honestly, does my dad really need his just-about-to-move-back-out-of-town son to look over his shoulder every time he takes the car in for service? Other dealers in the past were never this bad...

My guess is that when the car was first taken in, for an "oil change", then you signed the service contract for that service. If you dad went in an signed another service contract, they will have it on file.

If he did not sign one, and you did for an oil change, then they can not charge you for anything else, unless otherwise (somehow) you or your dad (verbally) approved additional services. If your dad approved additional services, they are required to detail that call in their notes, date and time and nature of call, and initial it by the service rep. That can be checked, by you, as well.

Good luck.

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[VivienM]

My guess is that when the car was first taken in, for an "oil change", then you signed the service contract for that service. If you dad went in an signed another service contract, they will have it on file.

If he did not sign one, and you did for an oil change, then they can not charge you for anything else, unless otherwise (somehow) you or your dad (verbally) approved additional services. If your dad approved additional services, they are required to detail that call in their notes, date and time and nature of call, and initial it by the service rep. That can be checked, by you, as well.

Just to make this a little clearer: it's his car, his money, and he is the one who had all the in-person interaction with them this time around.

Background story: car doesn't get driven much. Normally it goes in twice a year to have winter tires put on/off and change the oil at the same time... and he doesn't drive enough for another oil change to be due until the tires need swapping. My dad was away for a few weeks, left me with the car. I did the math since the last oil change and realized that after picking him up from the airport, the car would need an oil change. So since these guys, at least until they extended their service hours, needed at least 8-10 days' notice for an appointment, and the oil needed to be changed before another long trip at the beginning of next week, I called them up, arranged for an appointment two days after he got back, and when she asked what needed to be done, I said oil change.

He goes down there. I don't hear anything, so have no reason to suspect much went down... until today, when he shows me a mysterious email he just got saying "the part you ordered is in" from a service advisor. He didn't know what part this referred to (or, indeed, that a part had been ordered), so we dug out the invoice. Turns out the part is a cabin air filter. I had assumed he would be charged $50 or $60 for the damn oil change (i.e. LESS than for the seasonal service incl. the tire rotation, etc.), so when he mentioned the amount, I was like "WTF?!?!?!?".

Upon reviewing the invoice, I found what I've posted in this thread.

I'm taking the car back tomorrow for its cabin air filter, and honestly, I am absolutely livid. I don't know what they discussed or what they got him to agree to. (As I said, his English is far from perfect. They may/must have taken advantage of that.) But I do know that there's something wrong with such an obscenely high bill...

At least they washed the car. Normally they don't, but I guess when you pay this much, you get a little extra service.

 

[ACpilot1]

Sounds obscene to me!

Taking my 09 Genesis V6 into the dealership for an oil change and the 12,000 Km check. Total will be $85. And they always wash the car!

Dan

 

[ctrcbob]

Having many Canadian friends, and having delt with things in Canada (like in my drinking days <grin>) as I used to go there often, I know that things cost a lot more in Canada.
I used to laugh at the comercials Canada used to put on the TV stations in border states, that said that "Your dollar (USD) goes a lot further in Canada". What they did not say was that things in Canada cost so much more, that even though the dollar differential looked good, things still cost a lot more.

Also, in Canada, although I forgot the percentages, you have the GST and the PST (except no PST in Alberta), and that alone drives the costs up.

BTW, Our President and administration are now trying get a "National Sales Tax" (GST), and this is in addition to the income tax. My advice is to "Throw the bums out". The only way I'd accept a National Sales Tax is with the "Fair Tax" (Not the Flat Tax, but the Fair Tax), which does away with the Income Tax. Again, "Throw the bums out".

 

[VivienM]

Quick update. So, I go down there to have the cabin air filter put in, waving the invoice. Get the same service advisor whose name was on the invoice and asked her to explain exactly how my dad came in for an oil change and wound up with all of this. She is like 'well, I explained to your father that this is the recommended service, and he agreed." Taking advantage of a dude who doesn't speak English well is more like it.

I ask about the AC thing. She digs up a piece of paper with a chart of recommended service items. It says AC, yearly.

Above on the same chart is another item that is priced for V4 engines. Yes, V4. Whoever wrote this table is such an authority on automotive maintenance that they apparently don't know that there are no V4 engines in Hyundais (or, AFAIK, any other car brand sold in North America). I pointed this out to them.

I look over the chart. There are more things listed for next year. So I look at her, and I'm like 'so next year will be a thousand bucks'. She says yes. I look a little shocked, and reply 'you mean to tell me that it costs a thousand bucks in routine maintenance on a three year old car'. The dude next to her, with a perfectly straight face, looks at me and says 'oh yes sir. probably even more than that' as if I was insane to think there was a problem with the amount. Incredible.

Now I understand why these guys were a little annoyed that the car wasn't brought in for service last summer (my dad, having driven under 6000km between the spring and the fall service specials, didn't bring it in during the summer, and they had called/emailed to tell him the car was overdue for service) Big revenue-making opportunity accidentally slipped away from them...

I took a copy of their 'factory-recommended service schedule'. It lists lots of extra stuff compared to the Hyundai manual, of course. Among the more 'intriguing' additions, service iridium plugs for $160 at 42 months/48000 kms on a V6 Genesis. (it also says to replace said plugs at 120 months, 160K kms, like the Hyundai manual) The funny thing is, the AC thing isn't on there - according to the service advisor, because not all of their cars have AC. Suuure.

I can tell you guys one thing. My dad will agree to $1000 in service next year over my dead body. Hell, even though I'll be living 450 km away, they'll have to TOW my dead body out of their service department with a Santa Fe to get me out of the way.

Oh, and a final insult. The next service sticker in the windshield says the next service is due in SEPTEMBER, i.e. TWO MONTHS after all of this! (these guys say change oil at 3 months/6000km. 2 months is a new low...)

(By the way, for the American friend who pointed out taxes, yes, I was including taxes in the $600ish figure I posted in this thread. In some way a mistake - most of the time, when complaining about U.S. vs Canadian prices, I make sure to use before-tax prices. Tax is 13% in Ontario, they just 'harmonized' it this month, which means everything has a single combined federal + provincial tax)

 

[JDC]

Quick update. So, I go down there to have the cabin air filter put in, waving the invoice. Get the same service advisor whose name was on the invoice and asked her to explain exactly how my dad came in for an oil change and wound up with all of this. She is like 'well, I explained to your father that this is the recommended service, and he agreed." Taking advantage of a dude who doesn't speak English well is more like it.

I ask about the AC thing. She digs up a piece of paper with a chart of recommended service items. It says AC, yearly.

Above on the same chart is another item that is priced for V4 engines. Yes, V4. Whoever wrote this table is such an authority on automotive maintenance that they apparently don't know that there are no V4 engines in Hyundais (or, AFAIK, any other car brand sold in North America). I pointed this out to them.

I look over the chart. There are more things listed for next year. So I look at her, and I'm like 'so next year will be a thousand bucks'. She says yes. I look a little shocked, and reply 'you mean to tell me that it costs a thousand bucks in routine maintenance on a three year old car'. The dude next to her, with a perfectly straight face, looks at me and says 'oh yes sir. probably even more than that' as if I was insane to think there was a problem with the amount. Incredible.

Now I understand why these guys were a little annoyed that the car wasn't brought in for service last summer (my dad, having driven under 6000km between the spring and the fall service specials, didn't bring it in during the summer, and they had called/emailed to tell him the car was overdue for service) Big revenue-making opportunity accidentally slipped away from them...

I took a copy of their 'factory-recommended service schedule'. It lists lots of extra stuff compared to the Hyundai manual, of course. Among the more 'intriguing' additions, service iridium plugs for $160 at 42 months/48000 kms on a V6 Genesis. (it also says to replace said plugs at 120 months, 160K kms, like the Hyundai manual) The funny thing is, the AC thing isn't on there - according to the service advisor, because not all of their cars have AC. Suuure.

I can tell you guys one thing. My dad will agree to $1000 in service next year over my dead body. Hell, even though I'll be living $450km, they'll have to TOW my dead body out of their service department with a Santa Fe to get me out of the way.

Oh, and a final insult. The next service sticker in the windshield says the next service is due in SEPTEMBER, i.e. TWO MONTHS after all of this! (these guys say change oil at 3 months/6000km. 2 months is a new low...)

(By the way, for the American friend who pointed out taxes, yes, I was including taxes in the $600ish figure I posted in this thread. In some way a mistake - most of the time, when complaining about U.S. vs Canadian prices, I make sure to use before-tax prices. Tax is 13% in Ontario, they just 'harmonized' it this month, which means everything has a single combined federal + provincial tax)

It sounds like your dad has a good advocate, with you. Next time I think it will go much differently.

 

[dg_moore]

Have you checked with other dealers about their price for scheduled maintenance? In 5 years (4 years Azera, 6 mo Genesis) my dealer has never charged more than about $50-$75 for any scheduled maintenance). The Genesis is still young, but I don't anticipate anything like what you were charged.

 

[VivienM]

Have you checked with other dealers about their price for scheduled maintenance? In 5 years (4 years Azera, 6 mo Genesis) my dealer has never charged more than about $50-$75 for any scheduled maintenance). The Genesis is still young, but I don't anticipate anything like what you were charged.

The thing is, it's not a 'Genesis thing'. 90%, if not 100%, of those things they would also 'recommend' on an Elantra (except they'd charge at the 'V4' rate). Which, if anything, is more outrageous, because somebody leasing an Elantra probably is far less likely to have these obscene sums to blow on useless things.

 

[dg_moore]

All the more reason to take your business down the road. Is there another dealer within a reasonable distance? Can you get recommendations from other Hyundai owners?

 

[vega]

I feel for you and your dad. Hopefully this is not the norm for Hyundai Canada dealers, but what appears to be a rouge criminal organization preying on the uninformed or gullible. You may want to try speaking with a Hyundai customer relations person to express your dissatisfaction.

Which dealership was this? My Genesis is approaching its 1st service, and I'd like to know which dealer(s) to steer clear of.

As a side note, I called Hyundai Canada shortly after taking delivery, and asked what exactly was required to keep the warranty in force. Their answer was see the dealer. Pressing the issue further, only got me, "there is a sign in the service area listing the service intervals, along with the costs". I asked if these services could be done by myself, or elsewhere, and was told yes, but Hyundai may not honor related warranty issues. Ambiguous at best, and somewhat threatening. Hopefully Hyundai is better than this, but I fear they may not be much different than the other name plates.

 

[RogerB]

As I told you in a private message, Vivien, the principle of caveat emptor always applies. I have never had a good technical knowledge of cars but I have a good experience of driving for now fifty years. When I get a new car, I always sit down with the manual and study the maintenence requirements and make sure I follow them so as to keep the warranty valid. That does not mean I always follow what the dealership tells me. Since we have two cars, we put a fairly low mileage on each car. So when I get nagging reminders in the mail that it is time to get my Genny serviced, I don't react in kneejerk fashion and get the car into the dealer. I see how many km we have driven since the last service and wait until we have done the number called for in the maintenance schedule.

If you are unhappy with Pathway, Vivien, I think you should speak to the head of the service department (I am trying to remember his name. Is it André?) and let him know you will be tracking their service. A follow up letter to him with a copy to whoever is the top person at Pathway would be a good idea. You could mention that their questionable behaviour is being highlighted on this messageboard. Surely, they do not want continuing bad reports?

Another option for your dad is to take his car to another Hyundai dealer for service, or even a good non Hyundai garage if you know one you can trust. In the latter case of course, your dad needs to keep all receipts as proof that the car was serviced as it should be. The problem with this latter course of action is that a Hyundai dealer may be reluctant to honour a warranty requirement if his car has been serviced by non Hyundai garages. I know of an excellent private garage that can be counted on to do what is required and nothing more and in reliable fashion. Trouble is, they are pricey and if paying too much for service is your problem, this won't help.