A rant about quality - Truth or Myth?

[roblaw]

Yes, there are still definitely misperceptions about the poor quality of some cars (Korean) and superior quality of others (Japanese and German in different ways). But much is also about expectations.

Prior to my 2012 Genesis 3.8 I had 3 Honda Accords in a row. My wife had a Volvo S70, a Saab 9-5 and two Lexus RX 350s. Her cars were all leased and given back in 3 years (except her first RX 350 which I kept a few years after the lease). I really had no major quality complaints about any of these vehicles. But everything is relative. Coming from an Accord to a Lexus RX350 in 2006, the comfort and interior quality (although the Accord had very supportive seats) was noticeably better in the Lexus as was the service experience and the lack of road noise (a major issue for Honda until recently) .

When my wife got her 2011 RX 350 I felt the seats were very slightly improved but overall materials had dropped noticeably and the new mouse controller made the car less intuitive to drive. When I got my 2012 Genesis, the Lexus no longer seemed quiet at all. Road noise and engine noise were both much higher. Interior quality was inferior to my Genesis (not a lot but noticeably) and the lower level Lexus line seemed a bit overpriced. Now the ride was still better in the RX 350 than the Genesis (although interestingly not as good as the 2007 RX350).

Note that my best friend had a 2011 MB E350 with the Sport package. He thought my car was a pretty nice car. Even though my Genesis does not ride well, it still road almost as well as his sport equipped benz (although I believe the luxury equipped benz models ride very well). The interior was of slightly higher quality but you can sit in a Genesis for the first time and quickly get acclimated.

Turn to 2014, MB is throwing a good chunk of cash on the hood of its ML series. We replace the RX350 with an ML350. Strong, flexible motor against very heavy car (moves OK but you have to kick it to feel it plus it is very, very quiet, but the engine clearly has a stronger lower end than the 3.8 in the Genny). The interior materials in the MB are worlds ahead of my Genny, the Lexus (any model below the LS). The seats are firm and comfortable and at low speeds (a little wind noise at higher speeds) this is as quiet a vehicle as you will find. Ride is good, but not Buick Enclave good. I would not want to pay these service prices when the lease expires. Dealer service OK but not quite as good as Lexus.

So much of what we perceive as reliable (was your previous car an Accord or an A6) comfortable (was your previous car and S550 or a Nissan GTR) or having other qualities to a great extent depends upon expectations which may be based on written reviews, test drives and your own ownership experiences. Overall I am happy with my Genny but disappointed with a few items that a top line company would done better (like the noisy fan and the radio unit that is extremely inconsistent). Also, I love the 2015 and want to buy one but why couldn't they have put some aluminum in the thing and not made it slower and less economical. So Hyundai's engineering, while getting there, is not quite at the level of the european and US manufactures, while their dependability is.

 

[Mark_888]

Yes, there are still definitely misperceptions about the poor quality of some cars (Korean) and superior quality of others (Japanese and German in different ways). But much is also about expectations.

I think the OP is really talking about reliability, not quality in the sense you are discussing. It is hard to generalize about quality of materials, etc from a manufacturer when they make cars with MSRP of $15K (Accent) all the way up to MSRP of nearly $70K (Equus Ultimate).

 

[Aquineas]

Incidentally I asked the very question about aluminum to the head of US sales, and he mentioned the cost as the primary factor. Also remember that Hyundai owns their own steel mills, which helps them price the Genesis competitively, and even then, the Genesis I suspect is a loss leader in the US. One other point, Genesis is a top safety pick because of all that steel.

 

[indymac]

HMA has replaced some 2012 5.0 engines with excess oil consumption, but only after much initial stonewalling and denial (and it is still not a recall, so owners have to complain first).

My 2012 5.0 engine was replaced at 24,000 miles. The dealer ran an oil consumption check first, which took about 2 weeks, to show the burn rate (about 1 qt per 1,000 mi). After that, it took about 2 weeks to get Hyundai to agree to replace it according to the dealer, so I was without the car for almost a month. Not a great experience, obviously, but I'm trading it in on a 2015 when the lease is up. I never experienced any "denial" of the problem ... just one data point, not saying that others haven't had worse experience.

 

[Mark_888]

My 2012 5.0 engine was replaced at 24,000 miles. The dealer ran an oil consumption check first, which took about 2 weeks, to show the burn rate (about 1 qt per 1,000 mi). After that, it took about 2 weeks to get Hyundai to agree to replace it according to the dealer, so I was without the car for almost a month. Not a great experience, obviously, but I'm trading it in on a 2015 when the lease is up. I never experienced any "denial" of the problem ... just one data point, not saying that others haven't had worse experience.

I think you were fortunate that you were not one of the early ones who experienced the problem who went through hell trying to get it resolved. I will admit that at some point later on it became easier for those like you who experienced the problem to get a new engine.

 

[bluegenesisfl]

I wonder why the oil consumption problem was specific to the 2012 v-8's.

Can someone illuminate that?

I, for one, am glad that Hyundai offers a v-8 in the Genesis, but that being said, I have never seriously considered the v-8.

Why?

First MPG. While occasionally I drive pretty quick, most of the time I am trying to maximize fuel economy, and v-6 can easily hit 28 MPG hwy at 70 MPH, if driven correctly.

Second, the v-6 is actually very quick. My 2011 MPI v-6 with 6 speed automatic, after break-in was quick off the line and would get to 130 mph in a hurry.

Third, lower initial cost, and slightly lower maintenance costs.

I'm waiting to get a few more mile on the 2015 v-6 with 8 speed before trying some speed runs. Higher weight and lower HP not withstanding, the higher torque should should yield about the same results, maybe a little better.

 

[Mark_888]

I wonder why the oil consumption problem was specific to the 2012 v-8's.

In 2012 Hyundai introduced the Tau V8 5.0 GDI (Gasoline Direct Injection) engine to replace the Tau V8 4.6 fuel injected engine. Although they are both part of the Tau family of engines, there were a lot of changes made. The issue may have been fixed sometime during the 2012 model year (so that maybe engines built late in the 2012 model year were not affected).

 

[bluegenesisfl]

Some friends of mine have put a lot of miles on a 2013-14 Genesis R, and they have had no oil consumption problems.

I still wonder if anyone knows the specific reason for the excess oil use in the 2012's?

 

[Mark_888]

Some friends of mine have put a lot of miles on a 2013-14 Genesis R, and they have had no oil consumption problems.

I still wonder if anyone knows the specific reason for the excess oil use in the 2012's?

I would not expect any 2013-2014 5.0 engines to have the problem. One of the members of this forum who had to escalate to HMA to get his engine replaced (dealer refused to do anything), posted that after they finally agreed to replace his engine that he was assured by a HMA rep that his new engine would not have the same problem, so it appears that Hyundai knew what the problem was and fixed it in newer engines. So yes, there was a specific reason for the problem. They don't want to discuss it in public because it creates bad publicity, but probably something to do with piston rings not seating properly on a high percentage of engines (much higher than is normal).

There are hundreds (maybe thousands) of posts on this subject in this forum.

 

[Nikgen]

I switched mine to Mobil 1 at 1300 miles. I am using 0w-30.

Curious - any specific reason why are you using 0W-30 when the manual specifies 5W-20 or 5W-30 for your Tau 5.0? My dealer used 5W-30 Mobil 1 in my Lamda V6 per the recommendation in manual.

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[Mark_888]

Curious - any specific reason why are you using 0W-30 when the manual specifies 5W-20 or 5W-30 for your Tau 5.0? My dealer used 5W-30 Mobil 1 in my Lamda V6 per the recommendation in manual.

Hyundai does not list 0W-30 most likely for several reasons:

• 0W-30 is only available as a synthetic at this time (conventional oil cannot span that viscosity range, or cannot span it and still last 7500 miles). Hyundai has not taken the leap yet (as have Honda and Toyota) in specifying synthetic oil for their cars, most likely because they are afraid it will not appeal to customers who want a car that is inexpensive to maintain. That seems a little weird for Genesis and Equus, but they actually use the same engines (Lambda V6 and Tau V8) on other Hyundai vehicles (although not sure that is true of Tau V8 anymore).
• Most 0W-30 synthetic oils are European Formula oils (says right on the bottle) which is not suitable for a Hyundai engine (explained elsewhere in this forum). Mobil 1 0W-30 AFE (Advanced Fuel Economy) is an exception, but they don't want to get into singling out specific brands that may be acceptable.

Mobil 1 0W-30 AFE is a suitable replacement for 5W-30 and offers superior cold start capabilities and increased fuel economy.

 

[Nikgen]

Hyundai does not list 0W-30 most likely for several reasons:

• 0W-30 is only available as a synthetic at this time (conventional oil cannot span that viscosity range, or cannot span it and still last 7500 miles). Hyundai has not taken the leap yet (as have Honda and Toyota) in specifying synthetic oil for their cars, most likely because they are afraid it will not appeal to customers who want a car that is inexpensive to maintain. That seems a little weird for Genesis and Equus, but they actually use the same engines (Lambda V6 and Tau V8) on other Hyundai vehicles (although not sure that is true of Tau V8 anymore).
• Most 0W-30 synthetic oils are European Formula oils (says right on the bottle) which is not suitable for a Hyundai engine (explained elsewhere in this forum). Mobil 1 0W-30 AFE (Advanced Fuel Economy) is an exception, but they don't want to get into singling out specific brands that may be acceptable.

Mobil 1 0W-30 AFE is a suitable replacement for 5W-30 and offers superior cold start capabilities and increased fuel economy.

Thanks - I'll switch to the Mobil 1 0W-30 AFE at the next change, then.

 

[lobsenza]

I called Mobil, spoke to an engineer who knew a lot about their products. He said 0w-30 can be used in any vehicle labeled for 5w-30. 0w-30 is better for engine wear on cold starts and gets slightly better (probably not noticeable) fuel economy. In addition, the bottle of 0w-30 says meets or exceeds the warranty requirements for all 5w-30 and 10w-30 manufacturer requirements.