Adventures wiht the F&I Guy

[Kevinc5a]

I may be purchasing a 2012 Genesis 3.8 within the week. What are some tips and tricks for dealing with the obligatory session with the F&I guy? What items or services are usually pitched? What should be avoided? My default response is set to NO, but which have you found to be worthwhile? Thanks.

 

[Jbo]

Just say no! The only thing to consider is the wrap on whole car to 100K , if you think you'll keep it....1200 is fair price for JM&A administered genuine Hyundai warranty.

 

[Kevinc5a]

Re: Adventures with the F&I Guy

Just say no! The only thing to consider is the wrap on whole car to 100K , if you think you'll keep it....1200 is fair price for JM&A administered genuine Hyundai warranty.

Thanks. I'm not sure I'll need coverage to 100K, will probably sell after 4 years. In any event, I'm sure the finance guy will say I have to get the warranty when I purchase the car. Is that correct? Do I have to purchase from the selling dealer? Is there an option to extend the warranty on the electronics only from 36K to 60K without getting the other coverage?

 

[SmoovC]

Great article here:

http://www.edmunds.com/car-buying/confessions-of-an-auto-finance-manager.html

 

[Kevinc5a]

Great article here:

http://www.edmunds.com/car-buying/confessions-of-an-auto-finance-manager.html

Good stuff, I'll bring it with me to the dealer.
Thanks

 

[mlinzz]

Re: Adventures with the F&I Guy

Thanks. I'm not sure I'll need coverage to 100K, will probably sell after 4 years. In any event, I'm sure the finance guy will say I have to get the warranty when I purchase the car. Is that correct? Do I have to purchase from the selling dealer? Is there an option to extend the warranty on the electronics only from 36K to 60K without getting the other coverage?

You don't have to get the warranty extension and they will clearly list out the base price and the price with different package levels of the warranty. Basically Bronze, Silver, Gold and Platinum (at my dealer, may be the same else where)

I opted for the Bronze that increased the bumper-to-bumper warranty up to 10/100K w/ $50 dollar deductible on parts/labor. Pretty much the only thing it didn't include was a courtesy car while it's being worked on and replacing the key fob if it's lost or stolen... which is technically covered by my insurance anyway.

I didn't see or hear an option about pushing it up to 5/60K at all though, it may be an option. What sold it for me is my annual mileage is about 6,500 so at the end of the loan term (assuming I go the full length without paying it off) I'd be sitting 65,000 miles or so total with 35,000 left on the bumper to bumper all paid for. Which is added value when selling it. I got a sweet deal on the car purchase price with multiple added incentives from the dealer on top of that so I didn't even second guess it. One of those incentives was free maintenance for 1 year or 12,000 miles includes anything normally listed as a wear item i.e. oil, brake pads, shocks etc.

All that said, that article is pretty spot on for what you'll experience at any dealership, I've seen the same thing multiple times. Generally though you can weed out the shit you don't want. I got the extended coverage for $5/month more than what the original price and fiance rate came out to in a monthly payment, so not terrible, ended up costing me $300 dollars more than the purchase price.

 

[Southern Boy]

I NEVER wind up in the F&I office!

I get pre-approved financing for the car I want from my credit union or bank. I already have insurance coverage, so all the dealership has to do is call my financial institution and if they want the insurance company (which they really don’t give a hoot about once you sign the sales agreement).

I always list on a 3x5 file card listing all the information and options I want on the vehicle I wish to purchase. I present this to the salesperson who greets me upon entering the dealership and tell them I would like a “drive off price” in thirty minutes or less, if not I’ll will be leaving.

All my negotiations are based on “drive off price” and I always bring a set of plates that I want transferred to my new vehicle so I don’t get charged for someone to go down to the motor vehicle for the registration and plates.

That can all be completed right on the showroom floor after the final price I agreed upon...

Remember, they can’t eat those cars and they all are there to sell cars. They want to get as much as they can and you want as much car for the least amount of money possible.

You want to be discussed in their morning sales meeting as the biggest nut cracker they ever had to deal with, not the laughing stock of that meeting.

 

[427435]

I NEVER wind up in the F&I office!

I get pre-approved financing for the car I want from my credit union or bank. I already have insurance coverage, so all the dealership has to do is call my financial institution and if they want the insurance company (which they really don’t give a hoot about once you sign the sales agreement).

I always list on a 3x5 file card listing all the information and options I want on the vehicle I wish to purchase. I present this to the salesperson who greets me upon entering the dealership and tell them I would like a “drive off price” in thirty minutes or less, if not I’ll will be leaving.

All my negotiations are based on “drive off price” and I always bring a set of plates that I want transferred to my new vehicle so I don’t get charged for someone to go down to the motor vehicle for the registration and plates.

That can all be completed right on the showroom floor after the final price I agreed upon...

Remember, they can’t eat those cars and they all are there to sell cars. They want to get as much as they can and you want as much car for the least amount of money possible.

You want to be discussed in their morning sales meeting as the biggest nut cracker they ever had to deal with, not the laughing stock of that meeting.

x2

 

[Gunkk]

Another way to buy a car. Go the bank a week in advance, fill out the forms to get 400 x $100 bills. Then day of purchase, take the cash to the dealer in a plain paper bag.

Sit down with the salesperson. Start counting out your bills slowly, one at a time.

Stop where you want to. Then slide over the cash and say: "Here's my offer."

Watch his reaction

 

[Richard Ft. Lauderdale]

Another way to buy a car. Go the bank a week in advance, fill out the forms to get 400 x $100 bills. Then day of purchase, take the cash to the dealer in a plain paper bag.

Sit down with the salesperson. Start counting out your bills slowly, one at a time.

Stop where you want to. Then slide over the cash and say: "Here's my offer."

Watch his reaction

Before the bank will give you 400 one hundred dollar bills you wil have to fill out a rather extensive form for the IRS.

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[Southern Boy]

Another way to buy a car. Go the bank a week in advance, fill out the forms to get 400 x $100 bills. Then day of purchase, take the cash to the dealer in a plain paper bag.

Sit down with the salesperson. Start counting out your bills slowly, one at a time.

Stop where you want to. Then slide over the cash and say: "Here's my offer."

Watch his reaction

It may be easy to walk in with $40K, but I wouldn’t want to be walking out with it in a paper bag even though I live in a state that allows a person to carry concealed.

I’m thinking that it would have to be your own deposits that you withdraw since I don’t know of any bank that would give you $40K walking around money without some hellish equity signed over as collateral.

I would like to see your face when the bank reports the $40K withdrawal to the feds and the FBI shows up at your residence with a search warrant looking for drugs and proceeds to tear your residence apart during the search.

I would spend a little more time thinking through your approach to purchasing and vehicle

 

[SmoovC]

In all actuality, you have more leverage to negotiate a better price by not paying cash, but rather by using their financing. This is especially true on used vehicles.

Reason being is that Dealers bump up the interest a point or two to add to their bottom line, thus increasing the profit, even at a lower selling price.

Purchase the car with their financing to get it off the lot, and then convert the loan to your own financing after making one payment. You just lowered your payment a significant amount, and if you are a shrewd negotiator, got the low purchase price from the Dealer on the original purchase.

This tactic does not apply to HMA financing, as their rate on a short term loan is lower than any bank or credit union. Keep in mind that if you do not use HMA, you do not qualify for Guaranteed Trade In Value, on new car purchases.

 

[SmoovC]

No doubt, my business bank about raked me over the coals and made me fill out a bunch of forms to deposit over $10k in cash from a customer. I vowed at that time to never do it again; I will split the deposit over a few days!

 

[EXBMWGUY]

Rule # 1 of negotiating: he/she who believes they have the power to control or influence has the power.

Rule # 2: in every transaction, there is a buyer and a seller. See and follow rule # 1 and you will be the seller (even if you are buying something like a car).

 

[Ruissimo]

No doubt, my business bank about raked me over the coals and made me fill out a bunch of forms to deposit over $10k in cash from a customer. I vowed at that time to never do it again; I will split the deposit over a few days!

Yeah... anti-money laundering regulations at work there, bud.

BTW... the banks AND the feds have sophisticated-enough software to identify those "spread-out" deposits. And the bank is required to report those transactions too. I guarantee you if you were to spread that $10,000 into 10 deposits of $1,000 each per week, they'd probably still look into it.

 

[SmoovC]

Yeah... anti-money laundering regulations at work there, bud.

BTW... the banks AND the feds have sophisticated-enough software to identify those "spread-out" deposits. And the bank is required to report those transactions too. I guarantee you if you were to spread that $10,000 into 10 deposits of $1,000 each per week, they'd probably still look into it.

No doubt, it is getting harder and harder to make a buck or two without the Govt and credit card companies wanting their fingers in the pie.

 

[Southern Boy]

My father always told me that "Money talks and bullshit walks" and I have always found that to be true in any transaction I was involved in over to course of my life.

Another favorite quote by my father was, “He holds the gold also dictates the rule” so remember it’s a game and you need to know when to hold them and when to fold.

I can't count how many times I walked out when the salesperson didn’t want to play by my rules, but they always called me in a few days, sometime the next day to sweeten the deal a little more.

 

[SmoovC]

My father always told me that "Money talks and bullshit walks" and I have always found that to be true in any transaction I was involved in over to course of my life.

Another favorite quote by my father was, “He holds the gold also dictates the rule” so remember it’s a game and you need to know when to hold them and when to fold.

I can't count how many times I walked out when the salesperson didn’t want to play by my rules, but they always called me in a few days, sometime the next day to sweeten the deal a little more.

....and all of that probably made sense when your Dad was coming up back in the day. Times have changed, my friend.

Maybe it is just me, but I would rather keep the $40k in the market at 6% and pay 0.9% (or even 1.9% or 2.9%) interest on a car loan, than to make no money on the same dollars by paying the $40k out in cash. In essence, you are losing net dollars by paying cash. Further, $40k today is worth more today than it will be in 2 or 3 years, so why cash out today; work on their money for the term of the loan.

 

[Southern Boy]

....and all of that probably made sense when your Dad was coming up back in the day. Times have changed, my friend.

Maybe it is just me, but I would rather keep the $40k in the market at 6% and pay 0.9% (or even 1.9% or 2.9%) interest on a car loan, than to make no money on the same dollars by paying the $40k out in cash. In essence, you are losing net dollars by paying cash. Further, $40k today is worth more today than it will be in 2 or 3 years, so why cash out today; work on their money for the term of the loan.

I think you are missing my point.

It doesn’t matter where you get the money you bring to the table when negotiating the purchase of anything. The important thing is that you bring it and are not be put at an disadvantage of looking for financing after the deal is struck. That’s how you wind up with the F&I guy.

Any finance deal offered by the dealer can be matched or to the betterment of financing by a credit union or your personal bank unless you are credit challenged by a low fico score or bankruptcy.

In those cases you have no choice to pay cash or visit the F&I guy and bend over.

You need to shop for financing just as hard as you do for a deal on the vehicle you want to purchase or if you are going to pay cash weigh the advantage or disadvantage of doing so.

If I had a business I would never purchase a vehicle, I would lease a vehicle rather than purchase it to get the tax write off.

 

[SmoovC]

I think you are missing my point.

It doesn’t matter where you get the money you bring to the table when negotiating the purchase of anything. The important thing is that you bring it and are not be put at an disadvantage of looking for financing after the deal is struck. That’s how you wind up with the F&I guy.

Any finance deal offered by the dealer can be matched or to the betterment of financing by a credit union or your personal bank unless you are credit challenged by a low fico score or bankruptcy.

In those cases you have no choice to pay cash or visit the F&I guy and bend over.

You need to shop for financing just as hard as you do for a deal on the vehicle you want to purchase or if you are going to pay cash weigh the advantage or disadvantage of doing so.

If I had a business I would never purchase a vehicle, I would lease a vehicle rather than purchase it to get the tax write off.

I think we are approaching the same outcome from two different angles.

1) It absolutely does matter where the money comes from. This will dictate rate, terms and total cost. I agree that you should already have secured funding for the deal BEFORE you even start looking for a car.

However, the F&I department is not there JUST to get you bought (financed) on a vehicle. Even IF you are paying cash, you will end up there to get the paperwork done.

2) I do disagree on the point that "Any finance deal offered by the dealer can be matched or to the betterment of financing by a credit union or your personal bank".

To explain: try finding financing through the institutions you mentioned, and obtain BETTER than Factory financing on new vehicle purchases, ie: 0% for "x" amount of months, or even up to 1.9%. Current rates from the lenders you stated are in the 3.2x% range. The best deal I can get from my CU, with stellar credit, is 2.24% on a new car loan, and 2.15% on a secured loan.

3) Agreed; your FICO score matters. In order to get the best rates, you need a high score. Given the demographics of this forum and the cost of the vehicles, I think everyone on this board realizes the importance of this, and also is smart enough to know how to figure the best deal for themselves.

What I was trying to relay earlier is that a car purchase is a small part of your financial well-being; one needs to look at the long term effects of any purchase, and how to take advantage of the financial situation they are in. While "cash is king" when you hold onto it, it may not be the best course of action to take when making purchases. Many times if one looks at the situation, it turns out to make better fiscal sense to defer the cost over time.

As always, appreciate your input.