Advice on a used 2012

[VivienM]

Hi everyone,

I've been on-and-off looking for a nice used Genesis for a while (my dad had an 09 V6 Tech, so I'm fairly familiar with the car). Today's candidate is a 2012 V6 with the tech package, with 99930 kms (for our friends south of the border, this is about 62500 miles). Sold for what seems to be a rather cheap price by a Hyundai dealer; car was traded in for a 2015 by the original owner.

Couple of things:
1. Car makes a loud, very brief sound when starting it up. Is this normal for the GDI engines?

2. There was a CAD$9000-incl-tax insurance claim for a previous collision in February or March to the 'front center right' or something like that (as shown on a CarProof report). How big a deal is this (isn't one of those adaptive xenon headlights $2000+ to replace?), and how much more investigating does this warrant?

3. They serviced it at that dealership and had an overview of all the previous service history; I assume the detailed history (rather than just the heading) could be obtained if asked...

Thoughts? I'm nervous about it, but it's the right colour, has the very-elusive tech package, drives nicely, and the price is very competitive...

 

[daviderle]

VivienM, there are at least three things you mentioned that may indicate all sort of red flags:

1 - The car is being sold cheap (=Dealer trying to dump it at any cost).

2 - Loud noise at start up is not normal! (may or may not be related to the accident!?)

3 - CAD$9000 (almost $8000 US) claim, would indicate that there was some moderate to serious damage to the front of the vehicle (how much is hard to tell without the chassis / engine thoroughly be examined by a qualified technician).

If it was me, I would not come anywhere near that car! But if you really want it, it is advisable to get an independent technician to thoroughly examine this vehicle before going forward with the purchase.

Also I would check on the garage that preformed the repairs to see if they are Hyundai certified, otherwise there is no way to know or sure if the vehicle was repaired correctly.

from a pricing prospective, I would look up the value of a similar mileage / equipped vehicle, subtract at least $6000CAD and see if the dealer is offering you a good deal!?

Just my two cents and good luck....

 

[VivienM]

VivienM, there are at least three things you mentioned that may indicate all sort of red flags:

1 - The car is being sold cheap (=Dealer trying to dump it at any cost).

Agreed. But this is downtown Toronto. Not the friendliest market for a large, non-fancy-branded sedan. It's worth noting that I found the mileage on the odometer had not changed since they posted the photos on their ad 1.5 weeks ago, suggesting I was the first person to test drive it...

2 - Loud noise at start up is not normal! (may or may not be related to the accident!?)

Okay. Does anyone here have experience with the startup noise on a 2012/2013 vs a 2009? (I have extensive experience with a 2009)

This now concerns me way more than it did before. I was willing to presume it was direct injection, but if it's not...

3 - CAD$9000 (almost $8000 US) claim, would indicate that there was some moderate to serious damage to the front of the vehicle (how much is hard to tell without the chassis / engine thoroughly be examined by a qualified technician).

$9000 including taxes... so that makes it $8000CAD.

The thing is, I get the sense the U.S. list price for a headlight assembly is US$1500, and I don't even know if that includes the bulbs ($200). Add the Canadian premium, and we're looking at $2000+CAD just for a smashed headlight assembly, not counting labour.

Plus add the fact that this is downtown Toronto.

So, I just don't know how much damage $8000 adds up to. But it makes me nervous...

Also worth noting, the accident occurred in February/March, I believe. The original owner kept driving the car until he reached 99900 kms (Hyundai factory warranty ends at 100K, there is nothing else on Canadian market cars after that)

If it was me, I would not come anywhere near that car! But if you really want it, it is advisable to get an independent technician to thoroughly examine this vehicle before going forward with the purchase.

Also I would check on the garage that preformed the repairs to see if they are Hyundai certified, otherwise there is no way to know or sure if the vehicle was repaired correctly.

from a pricing prospective, I would look up the value of a similar mileage / equipped vehicle, subtract at least $6000CAD and see if the dealer is offering you a good deal!?

Just my two cents and good luck....

A similar equipped vehicle... doesn't exist. The market is flooded with underequipped ex-rental 2013s/2014s with about 40-50K kms. Some premiums with navigation wrongly advertised as 'tech' package that make me sad when I click on them.

Keep in mind that autotrader.ca (the largest used car site in the country) only lists 224 Genesis sedans nationwide, of which 32 are 2012s. Of those, about 4-5 are tech packages. (And all but two get rejected immediately for having either a black interior or exterior, though that doesn't matter for price analysis purposes)

That being said, having done this now, I am no longer as confident about their price as I was before. Closest comparable is a similar car at a used car stealership (not a franchised Hyundai dealership) with over 10K more kms and a $1000CAD higher asking price. Unknown collision status obviously.

Another question now that I've done this exercise: what are the OE tires on the 2012s? Did they replace the poorly-regarded Dunlops my dad's 2009 had with Michelin Energy something?

Oh, and another random question for people who had both the 2009 and 2012: they changed the turn signals and how they sound, didn't they?

 

[daviderle]

Let us work backwards..

The turn signals sound did indeed change, they are much softer and less annoying, having said that in 6 years I have never recall leaving the turn signal on in the 2009, while in six months with my R-Spec, I have left them on by accident on more than one occasion especially while the radio is on.

If recall correctly, Hyundai used the same Tires for 2012 here in the states, although I fail to see the relevance since the OEM tires would have been changed around 40-50k KMs..

Now to the tech question, can you please describe why you would like this trim vs premium / base? Which features will you miss the most?

I ask because, in general, it is considered to be bad form to give advice on this forum, so I will only say that in general it has been noted that the base trim is far more reliable than the Tech (fewer expensive things to go wrong!).

Also in the states they never updated 2009-2012 (DiS) Tech other than a map refresh while the premium trim has already had several updates that included UI (user interface) as well as Bluetooth drivers for added functionality (better Bluetooth streaming etc)

In summery, If reliability and long term maintenance costs are high on your priority list, then the base / premium might be worth a second look, unless there is a feature or two that you can not do without and can only be found on the Tech trim.

Again just my two cents...

 

[VivienM]

The turn signals sound did indeed change, they are much softer and less annoying, having said that in 6 years I have never recall leaving the turn signal on in the 2009, while in six months with my R-Spec, I have left them on by accident on more than one occasion especially while the radio is on.

It looks like the 2012 went to the Audi/Ford/etc style design of having the turn signal noise go through the audio system, while the 2009 had an old-school mechanical blinker or something that felt like it...

The 2012 does not have an audible turn signal when the radio is playing, in my experience with this car...

If recall correctly, Hyundai used the same Tires for 2012 here in the states, although I fail to see the relevance since the OEM tires would have been changed around 40-50k KMs..

Oh, it's not directly relevant to this... just trying to get a sense of whether the previous owner of this and other cars I saw when I went through those ads again just bought whatever the OEM tires were or...

Now to the tech question, can you please describe why you would like this trim vs premium / base? Which features will you miss the most?

I ask because, in general, it is considered to be bad form to give advice on this forum, so I will only say that in general it has been noted that the base trim is far more reliable than the Tech (fewer expensive things to go wrong!).

Also in the states they never updated 2009-2012 (DiS) Tech other than a map refresh while the premium trim has already had several updates that included UI (user interface) as well as Bluetooth drivers for added functionality (better Bluetooth streaming etc)

In summery, If reliability and long term maintenance costs are high on your priority list, then the base / premium might be worth a second look, unless there is a feature or two that you can not do without and can only be found on the Tech trim.

Again just my two cents...

Well, I like my gizmos... and that's the main reason for looking at a car in this category rather than just picking up a Sonata or Nissan Altima that would drink less gas, be more reliable and perform much better in the winter.

But specific things I care about:
- the Lexicon 17 speaker system (in Canada, I know they didn't include the 14-speaker system on the premiums in 09, though I think they changed that in later years)
- adaptive headlights
- adaptive cruise control (the one thing I really thought was missing on my dad's 09)
- cooled driver's seat

The rain-sensing wipers, memory seats, etc. I believe are on the premiums as well...

 

[daviderle]

Can't argue with that logic at all!
The 17 speaker Lexicon system is sublime, and I could not do without the cooled seat on my GA->FL trips either, and miss that adaptive cruise each time I am 'forced' to drive the Mrs. 4.6...

One other question (please forgive my ignorance in the subject) presumably there is no way for you to buy used from across the fence (US) and simply drive it in Canada?

 

[lykbutta]

Although I love my '13 Genesis, I fully researched mine before buying. I know you said they are limited , but don't pick up a problem car to have a Genesis

 

[VivienM]

One other question (please forgive my ignorance in the subject) presumably there is no way for you to buy used from across the fence (US) and simply drive it in Canada?

There is, but...
1. It's a lot of paperwork/bureaucracy/etc
2. There is IMO some stigma attached to a US car, though less than one with collision damage
3. With the current exchange rate, that may not make any financial sense
4. Did Hyundai add DRLs to US-market cars at some point? (I don't think the 09s had them) If not, they have to be retrofitted
5. That instrument cluster in MILES.

 

[VivienM]

One other U.S. vs Canada difference worth mentioning: here, Hyundai was heavily pushing 60-month leases. (I am always shocked when watching US TV or US web sites and I see these ads for 27/30/etc-month leases. Not really such a thing here.) So there should be very few off-lease 2012s coming back... which means the used market is likely to be
1) ex-rental base models
2) high-mileage examples being traded in when they reach 100K kms (like this one)
3) accident-damaged cars that the owner just doesn't want to keep after repair

Not a great market...

 

[Bill K]

"1. Car makes a loud, very brief sound when starting it up. Is this normal for the GDI engines? "

No way!
My 13 V6 w/ Tech starts up very quiet.
Without a warranty, a 60,000 mile Genesis could become a money pit.

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[landtuna]

Okay. Does anyone here have experience with the startup noise on a 2012/2013 vs a 2009? (I have extensive experience with a 2009)

My cousin has a 2012 3.8 and never makes any unusual noises at startup or any other time. I have spent some time in that car.

Without knowing more about the specific noise it would virtually impossible to diagnose over these boards but I submit any unusual noises at startup should be investigated thoroughly before considering purchase. The fact that it was in a front-end collision makes me very suspicious.

 

[VivienM]

My cousin has a 2012 3.8 and never makes any unusual noises at startup or any other time. I have spent some time in that car.

Without knowing more about the specific noise it would virtually impossible to diagnose over these boards but I submit any unusual noises at startup should be investigated thoroughly before considering purchase. The fact that it was in a front-end collision makes me very suspicious.

Okay, so if I do end up going back there, I probably should record that sound for further investigation if it happens again...

I don't know what to think about that sound. Maybe it's normal for it to sound that way if it hadn't been started in a week and a half or so. But the fact that when I heard it (while standing behind the car while the sales dude started it), my gut reaction was 'there's something wrong with this car'. It did quiet right down after a second or two...

Honestly, I think all of this circles back to the same point: given the accident history, this thing needs a lot more scrutiny.

 

[Roikins]

Let us work backwards..

The turn signals sound did indeed change, they are much softer and less annoying, having said that in 6 years I have never recall leaving the turn signal on in the 2009, while in six months with my R-Spec, I have left them on by accident on more than one occasion especially while the radio is on.

If recall correctly, Hyundai used the same Tires for 2012 here in the states, although I fail to see the relevance since the OEM tires would have been changed around 40-50k KMs..

Now to the tech question, can you please describe why you would like this trim vs premium / base? Which features will you miss the most?

I ask because, in general, it is considered to be bad form to give advice on this forum, so I will only say that in general it has been noted that the base trim is far more reliable than the Tech (fewer expensive things to go wrong!).

Also in the states they never updated 2009-2012 (DiS) Tech other than a map refresh while the premium trim has already had several updates that included UI (user interface) as well as Bluetooth drivers for added functionality (better Bluetooth streaming etc)

In summery, If reliability and long term maintenance costs are high on your priority list, then the base / premium might be worth a second look, unless there is a feature or two that you can not do without and can only be found on the Tech trim.

Again just my two cents...

I was checking Canadian Hyundai website, and they have different categories, our US Ultimate is the Tech in Canada, and the Premium is the base model.

 

[VivienM]

I was checking Canadian Hyundai website, and they have different categories, our US Ultimate is the Tech in Canada, and the Premium is the base model.

For the 2015? It's worse than that - you guys in the US can get a fully loaded 3.8 with the bigger nav screen and the 17-speaker Lexicon, I believe.

Up here, if you want that equipment, you need to get the Ultimate V8. $10K more. (But unlike the U.S. V8, it comes with AWD)

I don't understand why Hyundai did this - I'd expect the demand in Canada to be primarily for V6s...

For the 2009-2014, the same names were used in both countries, but there were some differences in the details, e.g. 2009 Canadian V6 tech packages didn't have the leather dash, 2009 premiums didn't have the 14-speaker Lexicon, etc.

 

[Roikins]

For the 2015? It's worse than that - you guys in the US can get a fully loaded 3.8 with the bigger nav screen and the 17-speaker Lexicon, I believe.

Up here, if you want that equipment, you need to get the Ultimate V8. $10K more. (But unlike the U.S. V8, it comes with AWD)

I don't understand why Hyundai did this - I'd expect the demand in Canada to be primarily for V6s...

For the 2009-2014, the same names were used in both countries, but there were some differences in the details, e.g. 2009 Canadian V6 tech packages didn't have the leather dash, 2009 premiums didn't have the 14-speaker Lexicon, etc.

Yes, you are right , I really don't understand that either why Hyundai did that difference in CAN and US models. I didn't own any previous Genesis models, but the 2015 , which I have , to compare to CAN 3.8 the top package, we missing some things that are available in CAN and CAN missing some what are available here. For example you have fog lights and heated steering wheel and back seat, and AWD , but smaller navigation screen and no BlueLink and SirriusXM Data for weather road conditions etc.
also the front lights are different , we have those DRL yellow, you have them the LED's we have that AWD, but it's not in all models, we have to pay extra 2,500$ for it. Yeah and of course the 5.0 not available in AWD.
I really can't see why they did that.

 

[VivienM]

Yes, you are right , I really don't understand that either why Hyundai did that difference in CAN and US models. I didn't own any previous Genesis models, but the 2015 , which I have , to compare to CAN 3.8 the top package, we missing some things that are available in CAN and CAN missing some what are available here. For example you have fog lights and heated steering wheel and back seat, and AWD , but smaller navigation screen and no BlueLink and SirriusXM Data for weather road conditions etc.
also the front lights are different , we have those DRL yellow, you have them the LED's we have that AWD, but it's not in all models, we have to pay extra 2,500$ for it. Yeah and of course the 5.0 not available in AWD.
I really can't see why they did that.

BlueLink and fancier SiriusXM things aren't available in this country, I think... so that's not really a Genesis thing.

Hyundai is weirder than other automakers when it comes to subtle differences in equipment between countries. The 2015 pushes it to a new level, though, perhaps in an attempt to sell more V8s in Canada (it's worth noting that, at the Hyundai dealership I was at yesterday to look at the 2012 in question, they had two 'Ultimate' V8 $63K 2015s). I think that's a mistake, and there's more of a market for big navigation screens and 17-speaker Lexicons than for $10K V8s...

 

[PMCErnie]

Viv, I would recommend that you simply walk away from any used car that has been in an accident. Further, I would never buy a high-tech (bells and whistles) used car without a comprehensive extended warranty package. Just a radio/Nav replacement would cost you thousands of Canadian dollars, well beyond the cost of a good extended warranty.

The 2012 tech package Genesis does not come with Bluetooth streaming audio, so also bear that in mind when making your decision.

 

[Roikins]

BlueLink and fancier SiriusXM things aren't available in this country, I think... so that's not really a Genesis thing.



Hyundai is weirder than other automakers when it comes to subtle differences in equipment between countries. The 2015 pushes it to a new level, though, perhaps in an attempt to sell more V8s in Canada (it's worth noting that, at the Hyundai dealership I was at yesterday to look at the 2012 in question, they had two 'Ultimate' V8 $63K 2015s). I think that's a mistake, and there's more of a market for big navigation screens and 17-speaker Lexicons than for $10K V8s...

That's what I mentioned that BlueLink is not available in Canada, U.S. Genesis , Sonatas and other Hyundai models has the BlueLink, very convenient, for the Genesis they made separate app in Apple store, can remotely start the car, turn on A/C or heat, and set temperature, also it's integrated with your calendar and if you have to be somewhere at specific time, in your calendar need to put address and turn on driving time for that event, and based on traffic and distance the Genesis app send you a reminder that you need to leave for example in 30 min to get to your destination and last remainder is about 10 min before leaving and depending on outside temperature it will offer to start the car to warm up or cool down interior, also you can find on Google maps what you looking for and send the address to the Genesis navigation, also if you parked your car, and forgot where, it shows on map where is located and if you need directions how to get there , it will show. Also you can lock unlock , turn on flashing lights and horn , check if the car is locked and some other little details. I use it every morning, I start the car in my apartment, and while I am going down in elevator and get to my car, it's already nice and cool inside
But we miss the fog lights , they are only available to V 8 models. Most of us installing them ourselves, it changes the look much nicer.
It might be right as you said that they trying to sell more 5.0 in Canada offering more features than 3.8.
Sorry it was off your topic with what you started this conversation.

 

[Roikins]

Okay, so if I do end up going back there, I probably should record that sound for further investigation if it happens again...



I don't know what to think about that sound. Maybe it's normal for it to sound that way if it hadn't been started in a week and a half or so. But the fact that when I heard it (while standing behind the car while the sales dude started it), my gut reaction was 'there's something wrong with this car'. It did quiet right down after a second or two...



Honestly, I think all of this circles back to the same point: given the accident history, this thing needs a lot more scrutiny.

My opinion would be the same , I wouldn't buy that car, as it was mentioned , the warranty is over, and if something happens you would have invest a lot more money that you saved buying it.
I know how you feel, the car that fits your needs and exactly matches what you was looking for, sits right there , and costs less than other would cost, it's hard to say no , but if later any issues starting to pop up, it's won't be that good anymore.
Are there any other years and models what you like ?

 

[VivienM]

Viv, I would recommend that you simply walk away from any used car that has been in an accident. Further, I would never buy a high-tech (bells and whistles) used car without a comprehensive extended warranty package. Just a radio/Nav replacement would cost you thousands of Canadian dollars, well beyond the cost of a good extended warranty.

One thing I just discovered today: Hyundai's 5-year warranty in Canada only covers radio components for 3 years...

The 2012 tech package Genesis does not come with Bluetooth streaming audio, so also bear that in mind when making your decision.

I don't see that as a big deal, perhaps because I picture my battery life shrinking dramatically while playing audio over Bluetooth... and if I plug the phone to charge it, I might as well get the audio that way too...