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Anyone Used An Automated Car Wash Yet?

My car has that same streak right now.

I took my car through an automatic car wash twice now. The last time I got scratches on the front pillar, and on the roof. You can tell that the felt strip must of had something abrasive from someone elses car, and it ran down the car in a side to side motion.

I just remembered there is a place that waxes cars in town...I may go see if they do car washes. It is too cold here to do it, but wouldn't mind paying someone to do it - if they are reasonable.
 
I would really suggest staying away from the automated car washes. Since the country is covered in snow right now, and it's kinda pointless to wash the car since it's gonna get schmeged again. I'd just try and get the salt off the car a couple times a week, at those DIY places with the high pressure spray guns. Or just say f&*k it and wait till this mess clears out. Trying to keep a car clean in winter is like trying to put socks on a cat.
 
The problem with the soft cloth washes are the people maintaining them. If they push the brushes to their limit, you're going to have problems. I judge a good soft cloth wash on the pre-wash. A good car wash will wand-wash the car before it enters the soft cloth wash. As a result, the brushes stay in much better shape, they have less dirt build-up and are thus less likely to do serious damage to your finish. Just my opinion.

The laser washes can be fine or very harmful to not only the paint, but the rubber and plastic materials on the car. They use alkaline and acid to clean your car's finish -- scary, eh? When perfectly balanced as intended, this actually isn't terribly harmful to the finish (but will of course remove even the best wax/sealant much quicker) but the problem lies with those wash operators that don't actively monitor and maintain the chemical levels.

In the case of my LS, it's not driven in the rain or snow - so I typically do Optimum No Rinse once a month and quick-detail every few days with NXT ultimate detailer or Zaino Z6. Every now and then I'll run through a trusted laser wash to hit the undercarriage and the crevices. Usually this is right before I refresh a few layers of Zaino Z2 and topped with Z-CS.

The vehicles I care less about, I polish/seal a few times per year and run through the laser wash for maintenance.
 
I would really suggest staying away from the automated car washes. Since the country is covered in snow right now, and it's kinda pointless to wash the car since it's gonna get schmeged again. I'd just try and get the salt off the car a couple times a week, at those DIY places with the high pressure spray guns. Or just say f&*k it and wait till this mess clears out. Trying to keep a car clean in winter is like trying to put socks on a cat.

If I wait till it clears out, my car will rust away. can't leave the salt on till april. the value of an auto wash is in the undercarriage wash. I can't get that with a spray gun....

Snow in the forecast every day between now and Jan 1.

As for the soft touch. If depends on the wash, if they don't clear the drapes between washes the dirt from the last car will scratch yours.

My cleaning in the winter isn't about making the car look good, (no chance of that). it is about rust and function. salt gets into everything. I don't want suspension problems , brake problems, hub problems, etc....

I need to move back to Fl. (I say it every winter).....
 
I need to move back to Fl. (I say it every winter).....
At the rate were going in SoCal, my wiperblades will last 5 years. I think there's more risk of the car getting damaged by an earthquake in the garage, then by any weather related issue. I lived in the northeast for 16 years. Snow is fun for about a day and then you're over it. Especially in a urban environment. Once it gets dirty, and filled with cigarettes,dog piss and dust brake, it's then that I think I'm glad I don't live there anymore. Happy Holidays!
 
I thought about going the that route, but winter is 6 months I spend 2 hours a day in my car. On the worst days I have a 1 ton duelly Chevy PU but otherwise I will drive the Genesis like I stole it.

Yeah, I drive it like I stole it, that's for sure:cool: Figured I'd give it a break in the winter since the HP is useless with summer tires and cold streets = no traction.

Plus, I get to keep the miles down and I'd prefer to eventually pay off the car and have a warranty 4 or five years from now. I'm 27, and try to be active in my social life and drive a lot. I was putting 30,000 miles a year when I had my Elantra. I live closer to work now, so I wouldn't see that high milage, but still would be high. I have 16,800 miles on the Genesis in storage and I bought it last January. I've put 6,000 miles on the Clitaurus already. That would put me around 22,000 - 25,000 miles per year still I guess.

Glad I have another car for now.
 
Can someone else chime in from southern cal, or FL letting me know that they only wipe the dust off every 6-10 weeks???

I really is cruel guys.......
 
No way you can go that long - its too dusty not to wipe the car off. Still, dusting the car off every morning takes only a couple minutes and keeps the car looking clean for months if it doesn't rain.
 
No way you can go that long - its too dusty not to wipe the car off. Still, dusting the car off every morning takes only a couple minutes and keeps the car looking clean for months if it doesn't rain.

I would dust my car almost each time before driving it, and since I always had wax on the paint, they car would look awesome after just dusting it.
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If it is cold outside, don't use hot,hot water- as it freezes much faster than cold water- because of molecular properties- of course-cold water will freeze too! The hot water can also peel paint on cold bumper plastic surfaces (extreme temp change) as well as watch out for cracking the windshield (also can be done in summer with cold water) if you have an unseem pit, chip or crack. Thank goodness for heated garages!

If a real dirty car/truck leads you through an automatic car wash, his dirt will help grind your paint finish, um, clean.
 
I would really suggest staying away from the automated car washes. Since the country is covered in snow right now, and it's kinda pointless to wash the car since it's gonna get schmeged again. I'd just try and get the salt off the car a couple times a week, at those DIY places with the high pressure spray guns. Or just say f&*k it and wait till this mess clears out. Trying to keep a car clean in winter is like trying to put socks on a cat.

Interesting advice from someone living in Hollywood! We have winter conditions here in Ottawa for five months a year. It is more than a question of cosmetics. Yes, it is a crying shame to see a beautiful car enrusted with dirt and salt and, yes, it will only get dirty again very soon if we have it washed. But there are practical considerations besides the cosmetic. First of all, it is impossible not to get your clothes covered in salt as you go past the car, for example filling it with gas (not a pleasant experience when the temp is -20C as it has been for some days now), or squeezing between snow banks and the car. If you want to preserve your clothes you will get your car washed from time to time. Also when the temp goes over zero (freezing), all that salt will start to eat into your car. Timing is critical. Get the car washed before a stretch of dry weather and you will have at least a few days when the car looks good again.
 
Interesting advice from someone living in Hollywood! We have winter conditions here in Ottawa for five months a year. It is more than a question of cosmetics. Yes, it is a crying shame to see a beautiful car enrusted with dirt and salt and, yes, it will only get dirty again very soon if we have it washed. But there are practical considerations besides the cosmetic. First of all, it is impossible not to get your clothes covered in salt as you go past the car, for example filling it with gas (not a pleasant experience when the temp is -20C as it has been for some days now), or squeezing between snow banks and the car. If you want to preserve your clothes you will get your car washed from time to time. Also when the temp goes over zero (freezing), all that salt will start to eat into your car. Timing is critical. Get the car washed before a stretch of dry weather and you will have at least a few days when the car looks good again.

Yeah I have only lived in LA a short time. I lived in New England and New York for most my life, so I feel for you guys, I really do. If I had this car out there, I would lose my mind. Actually I probably wouldn't even drive it in the winter as I have the luxury of having a leased car from work that is an SUV.
 
If it is cold outside, don't use hot,hot water- as it freezes much faster than cold water- because of molecular properties- of course-cold water will freeze too! The hot water can also peel paint on cold bumper plastic surfaces (extreme temp change) as well as watch out for cracking the windshield (also can be done in summer with cold water) if you have an unseem pit, chip or crack. Thank goodness for heated garages!

If a real dirty car/truck leads you through an automatic car wash, his dirt will help grind your paint finish, um, clean.

LOL....Flunked physics class, did ya? Hot water takes LONGER to freeze than cold water.
 
If you run your car through an automated wash, be sure to turn off the rain sensing wipers!
 
Actually I probably wouldn't even drive it in the winter as I have the luxury of having a leased car from work that is an SUV.

Ha! I knew it!!! Ha, ha! I love the feeling of driving an awesome car after I have not driven it in 5 or 6 months from being stored:)
 
LOL....Flunked physics class, did ya? Hot water takes LONGER to freeze than cold water.

Not gonna get into that one...
but I will say that you shouldn't use hot water to wash the exterior of the car ever. The hot water will remove the wax. The wax, protects the clearcoat, the clearcoat protects the paint. As far as using hot water to clean the undercarriage, there is some debate about this. It's probably fine, but I'd try and avoid putting any water on the car when it is freezing outside. I know this is darn near impossible especially for our Canadian brethren. The thing I used to do in Boston, is get the car detailed, mid winter. They would wash and wax the car, inside a garage. The car would be clean for oh about a minute after driving away. But I felt better since I knew there was a fresh coat of wax protecting the paint. It wasn't cheap though, 200 bucks.
 
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Call me Dr. Genesis.

Below is my Hot vs. Cold water explanation.
Go out, and wish a bucket of hot soapy water on a sponge and a bucket of cold soapy water on a sponge- see which sample freezes first!

Can hot water freeze faster than cold water?
Yes -- a general explanation
History of the Mpemba Effect
More-detailed explanations
References
Yes -- a general explanation
Hot water can in fact freeze faster than cold water for a wide range of experimental conditions. This phenomenon is extremely counter- intuitive, and surprising even to most scientists, but it is in fact real. It has been seen and studied in numerous experiments. While this phenomenon has been known for centuries, and was described by Aristotle, Bacon, and Descartes [1-3], it was not introduced to the modern scientific community until 1969, by a Tanzanian high school student named Mpemba. Both the early scientific history of this effect, and the story of Mpemba's rediscovery of it, are interesting in their own right -- Mpemba's story in particular provides a dramatic parable against making snap judgements about what is impossible. This is described separately below.

The phenomenon that hot water may freeze faster than cold is often called the Mpemba effect. Because, no doubt, most readers are extremely skeptical at this point, we should begin by stating precisely what we mean by the Mpemba effect. We start with two containers of water, which are identical in shape, and which hold identical amounts of water. The only difference between the two is that the water in one is at a higher (uniform) temperature than the water in the other. Now we cool both containers, using the exact same cooling process for each container. Under some conditions the initially warmer water will freeze first. If this occurs, we have seen the Mpemba effect. Of course, the initially warmer water will not freeze before the initially cooler water for all initial conditions. If the hot water starts at 99.9°C, and the cold water at 0.01°C, then clearly under those circumstances, the initially cooler water will freeze first. However, under some conditions the initially warmer water will freeze first -- if that happens, you have seen the Mpemba effect. But you will not see the Mpemba effect for just any initial temperatures, container shapes, or cooling conditions.

This seems impossible, right? Many sharp readers may have already come up with a common proof that the Mpemba effect is impossible. The proof usually goes something like this. Say that the initially cooler water starts at 30°C and takes 10 minutes to freeze, while the initially warmer water starts out at 70°C. Now the initially warmer water has to spend some time cooling to get to get down to 30°C, and after that, it's going to take 10 more minutes to freeze. So since the initially warmer water has to do everything that the initially cooler water has to do, plus a little more, it will take at least a little longer, right? What can be wrong with this proof?

What's wrong with this proof is that it implicitly assumes that the water is characterized solely by a single number -- the average temperature. But if other factors besides the average temperature are important, then when the initially warmer water has cooled to an average temperature of 30°C, it may look very different than the initially cooler water (at a uniform 30°C) did at the start. Why? Because the water may have changed when it cooled down from a uniform 70°C to an average 30°C. It could have less mass, less dissolved gas, or convection currents producing a non-uniform temperature distribution. Or it could have changed the environment around the container in the refrigerator. All four of these changes are conceivably important, and each will be considered separately below. So the impossibility proof given above doesn't work. And in fact the Mpemba effect has been observed in a number of controlled experiments [5,7-14]

It is still not known exactly why this happens. A number of possible explanations for the effect have been proposed, but so far the experiments do not show clearly which, if any, of the proposed mechanisms is the most important one. While you will often hear confident claims that X is the cause of the Mpemba effect, such claims are usually based on guesswork, or on looking at the evidence in only a few papers and ignoring the rest. Of course, there is nothing wrong with informed theoretical guesswork or being selective in which experimental results you trust -- the problem is that different people make different claims as to what X is.

Why hasn't modern science answered this seemingly simple question about cooling water? The main problem is that the time it takes water to freeze is highly sensitive to a number of details in the experimental set- up, such as the shape and size of the container, the shape and size of the refrigeration unit, the gas and impurity content of the water, how the time of freezing is defined, and so on. Because of this sensitivity, while experiments have generally agreed that the Mpemba effect occurs, they disagree over the conditions under which it occurs, and thus about why it occurs. As Firth [7] wrote "There is a wealth of experimental variation in the problem so that any laboratory undertaking such investigations is guaranteed different results from all others."

So with the limited number of experiments done, often under very different conditions, none of the proposed mechanisms can be confidently proclaimed as "the" mechanism. Above we described four ways in which the initially warmer water could have changed upon cooling to the initial temperature of the initially cooler water. What follows below is a short description of the four related mechanisms that have been suggested to explain the Mpemba effect. More ambitious readers can follow the links to more complete explanations of the mechanisms, as well as counter- arguments and experiments that the mechanisms cannot explain. It seems likely that there is no one mechanism that explains the Mpemba effect for all circumstances, but that different mechanisms are important under different conditions.

Evaporation -- As the initially warmer water cools to the initial temperature of the initially cooler water, it may lose significant amounts of water to evaporation. The reduced mass will make it easier for the water to cool and freeze. Then the initially warmer water can freeze before the initially cooler water, but will make less ice. Theoretical calculations have shown that evaporation can explain the Mpemba effect if you assume that the water loses heat solely through evaporation [11]. This explanation is solid, intuitive, and evaporation is undoubtedly important in most situations. However, it is not the only mechanism. Evaporation cannot explain experiments that were done in closed containers, where no mass was lost to evaporation [12]. And many scientists have claimed that evaporation alone is insufficient to explain their results [5,9,12].
Dissolved Gasses -- Hot water can hold less dissolved gas than cold water, and large amounts of gas escape upon boiling. So the initially warmer water may have less dissolved gas than the initially cooler water. It has been speculated that this changes the properties of the water in some way, perhaps making it easier to develop convection currents (and thus making it easier to cool), or decreasing the amount of heat required to freeze a unit mass of water, or changing the boiling point. There are some experiments that favor this explanation [10,14], but no supporting theoretical calculations.
Convection -- As the water cools it will eventually develop convection currents and a non-uniform temperature distribution. At most temperatures, density decreases with increasing temperature, and so the surface of the water will be warmer than the bottom -- this has been called a "hot top." Now if the water loses heat primarily through the surface, then water with a "hot top" will lose heat faster than we would expect based on its average temperature. When the initially warmer water has cooled to an average temperature the same as the initial temperature of the initially cooler water, it will have a "hot top", and thus its rate of cooling will be faster than the rate of cooling of the initially cooler water at the same average temperature. Got all that? You might want to read this paragraph again, paying careful distinction to the difference between initial temperature, average temperature, and temperature. While experiments have seen the "hot top", and related convection currents, it is unknown whether convection can by itself explain the Mpemba effect.
Surroundings -- A final difference between the cooling of the two containers relates not to the water itself, but to the surrounding environment. The initially warmer water may change the environment around it in some complex fashion, and thus affect the cooling process. For example, if the container is sitting on a layer of frost which conducts heat poorly, the hot water may melt that layer of frost, and thus establish a better cooling system in the long run. Obviously explanations like this are not very general, since most experiments are not done with containers sitting on layers of frost.

Finally, supercooling may be important to the effect. Supercooling occurs when the water freezes not at 0°C, but at some lower temperature. One experiment [12] found that the initially hot water would supercool less than the initially cold water. This would mean that the initially warmer water might freeze first because it would freeze at a higher temperature than the initially cooler water. If true, this would not fully explain the Mpemba effect, because we would still need to explain why initially warmer water supercools less than initially cooler water.

In short, hot water does freeze sooner than cold water under a wide range of circumstances. It is not impossible, and has been seen to occur in a number of experiments. However, despite claims often made by one source or another, there is no well-agreed explanation for how this phenomenon occurs. Different mechanisms have been proposed, but the experimental evidence is inconclusive. For those wishing to read more on the subject, Jearl Walker's article in Scientific American [13] is very readable and has suggestions on how to do home experiments on the Mpemba effect, while the articles by Auerbach [12] and Wojciechowski [14] are two of the more modern papers on the effect.
 
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