Arbitration or Sue because of lemon Genesis 4.6

[Gen46Tech]

I bought a 2009 Genesis 4.6 with Tech package on July 2009.
I felt abnormal vibration at a speed 20-40 MPH from Aug 2009.
The abnormal vibration occurs intermittently and sometimes it is associated with tapping sound.
I was heard that "We cannot reproduce the vibration" at Hyundai service on the first and second visit.
On my 3rd visit to Hyundai service, I could reproduce the abmormal vibration and tapping sound from the rear side of the car, and they replaced whole drive shaft assembly.
The problem is that the vibration still is not fixed yet. I can still feel abnormal vibration from my seat back and center console at a speed 20-40 MPH.
The vibration is prominent when I drive several miles after starting the engine in the morning.
When I took the vehicle to Hyundai service several days ago, I was heard "We could not reproduce the abnormal vibration" again.
I am very angry and tired to visit Hyundai service endlessly becuase I already visited 4 times to Hyundai service after purchase 2009 new Genesis 4.6, and could not use the for almost 30 days.
I think this Genesis 4.6 has more fundamental problem in engine or transmission.
I am considering to ask arbitration at BBB autoline or contact to lemon lawer.
Please give me an advice do you think which choice would be better (arbitration or lemon lawer)?
Any advice would be welcome. Thanks a lot.
From unlucky genesis 4.6 owner

 

[Sayantsi]

I think arbitration is your warranty option per the sales conditions, but a vibration that only manifests at certain speeds sounds like a classic case of a wheel that is not perfectly balanced.

I'm surprised your dealership has not had the tires rebalanced and re-aligned. I'd start by suggesting that in hopes it will fix the issue, otherwise, you'll need to request to start arbitration, in which case Hyundai NA gets involved and the dealership gets dinged on its service issues with you.

 

[TimeOut]

A bent RIM can cause vibration that only manifests at certain speeds. With a bent RIM, you can balance the wheels all you want and you'll never fix the vibration. Ask me how I know.

Has the dealer tried replacing wheels and tires?

 

[LLT]

If the vibration is only felt in the rear - move the rear tires to the front. If the vibration moves with it, it is definitely the tires and the OEM Dunlop tires on the Genesis are junk, so it wouldn't be surprising.

If it doesn't change the position of the vibration - does the vibration go away if you let off the accelerator and/or put the vehicle in neutral?

There's a few other possible causes... rear axle and differential for example. Was the driveshaft indexed and balanced when it was replaced? If not, insist that this happen... though this wouldn't account for a clicking/tapping noise, whereas a rear axle could.

Everyone knows how I feel about Hyundai not standing behind their products, so I won't bother... but, I had a lemon 2007 Cadillac Escalade ESV -- I gave the dealer over a month to fix it, then I politely contacted GM and without hesitation, the regional manager authorized a brand new one from the factory (and threw in a couple of upgrades.)

I would be very courteous and polite -- contact HMA, explain that you are dissatisfied and ask for their preferred next step. Chances are, they will send an area rep out to inspect the vehicle. Most competent dealerships have what are called chassis ears. If the dealer is claiming NPF, insist that they humor you, mount the chassis ears on your vehicle, then do the same with a like-vehicle on the lot and compare.

If you still get no satisfaction after the sugar vs vinegar method - then proceed to the next level.... Some states disallow mandated arbitration, some provide their own (versus the crooked "Dispute resolution" services the manufacturers fund), check your local lemon laws. Generally, you'll have to notify the manufacturer and provide them with one last repair attempt anyway. A vibration is somewhat subjective, so you may have difficulty going this route - I'd start with respectfully contacting HMA.

Good luck!

 

[Dimitry]

Consult your state laws on lemon vehicles, as all states have varying degrees of when you can invoke the clause. Some states will require arbitration before you submit a lemon claim in a court of law (assuming the manufacturer has not refunded or given you a new vehicle) - In your case, I would see how it is for the next few months and if you experience any issues, visit your service department and make sure to document everything. If the problems still persist, contact a lemon attorney for a consultation.

As LLT stated, be polite and courteous. Write a letter to HMA. Good luck, keep us updated!

 

[ShawShank]

I say go for the GUSTO! Get a new vehicle for what you owe on the current one. I bought a Brand New XG300 and it gave me so many problems. I almost went blow for blow with the service rep and then it got tho the point whre, i was at the dealership at least every two weeks. They gave me the run around and they seem to be doing the same thing to you. And that is the one thing that concerns me about hyundai is their employes lack of knowledge on the vehicles and the sevice dept nasty slacky attitudes. UGHHH! but I say; get as much as you can for the hassle and feel no remorse for the new car replacement. GO GET 'EM!

 

[Sayantsi]

Fwiw, I've never found a dealership service department with quality mechanics, no matter the cost of the car. Seasoned mechanics open their own independent shops, leaving the dregs to the dealerships, but thats my jaded view.

I like the advice about moving the rear wheels forward - give a dealer mechanic these instructions and ask to watch the process, even if you have to stand outside the garage door, you should be able to. Start working to isolate the issue since the dealership is obviously not doing an adequate job.

 

[DanTheMan]

If the vibration is only felt in the rear - move the rear tires to the front. If the vibration moves with it, it is definitely the tires and the OEM Dunlop tires on the Genesis are junk, so it wouldn't be surprising.

If it doesn't change the position of the vibration - does the vibration go away if you let off the accelerator and/or put the vehicle in neutral?

There's a few other possible causes... rear axle and differential for example. Was the driveshaft indexed and balanced when it was replaced? If not, insist that this happen... though this wouldn't account for a clicking/tapping noise, whereas a rear axle could.

Everyone knows how I feel about Hyundai not standing behind their products, so I won't bother... but, I had a lemon 2007 Cadillac Escalade ESV -- I gave the dealer over a month to fix it, then I politely contacted GM and without hesitation, the regional manager authorized a brand new one from the factory (and threw in a couple of upgrades.)

I would be very courteous and polite -- contact HMA, explain that you are dissatisfied and ask for their preferred next step. Chances are, they will send an area rep out to inspect the vehicle. Most competent dealerships have what are called chassis ears. If the dealer is claiming NPF, insist that they humor you, mount the chassis ears on your vehicle, then do the same with a like-vehicle on the lot and compare.

If you still get no satisfaction after the sugar vs vinegar method - then proceed to the next level.... Some states disallow mandated arbitration, some provide their own (versus the crooked "Dispute resolution" services the manufacturers fund), check your local lemon laws. Generally, you'll have to notify the manufacturer and provide them with one last repair attempt anyway. A vibration is somewhat subjective, so you may have difficulty going this route - I'd start with respectfully contacting HMA.

Good luck!

This is EXCELLENT advice! I ran into similar problems, albeit with older cars. In one case, it was determined the tires were the culprit (Continentals on a Toyota, don't remember the series...too many years ago), and in another case, it was internal to the crankshaft in the car (a Mazda). Neither car was new, but developed problems similar to what was previously described.

Like others have said...keep us posted...I'm curious!

Curious George!

 

[CanukV6]

The OEM Dunlop tires are known to flatspot when sitting overnight. I almost always get a slight vibration for the first few miles until the tire regains its normal 'roundness'. It is worst when temeratures are cold and takes longer to recover. Balancing will not help this problem, it is a characteristic of the OEM tires.

 

[DanTheMan]

The OEM Dunlop tires are known to flatspot when sitting overnight. I almost always get a slight vibration for the first few miles until the tire regains its normal 'roundness'. It is worst when temeratures are cold and takes longer to recover. Balancing will not help this problem, it is a characteristic of the OEM tires.

That may be true in colder climates. I live in East Tennessee and haven't experienced that at all in my 30K miles so far. Having lived in Chicago, I remember tires doing that (especially the old bias ply tires), but like you said, once they warmed up, the flat spot issue was gone.

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[Gen46Tech]

If the vibration is only felt in the rear - move the rear tires to the front. If the vibration moves with it, it is definitely the tires and the OEM Dunlop tires on the Genesis are junk, so it wouldn't be surprising.

If it doesn't change the position of the vibration - does the vibration go away if you let off the accelerator and/or put the vehicle in neutral?

There's a few other possible causes... rear axle and differential for example. Was the driveshaft indexed and balanced when it was replaced? If not, insist that this happen... though this wouldn't account for a clicking/tapping noise, whereas a rear axle could.

Everyone knows how I feel about Hyundai not standing behind their products, so I won't bother... but, I had a lemon 2007 Cadillac Escalade ESV -- I gave the dealer over a month to fix it, then I politely contacted GM and without hesitation, the regional manager authorized a brand new one from the factory (and threw in a couple of upgrades.)

I would be very courteous and polite -- contact HMA, explain that you are dissatisfied and ask for their preferred next step. Chances are, they will send an area rep out to inspect the vehicle. Most competent dealerships have what are called chassis ears. If the dealer is claiming NPF, insist that they humor you, mount the chassis ears on your vehicle, then do the same with a like-vehicle on the lot and compare.

If you still get no satisfaction after the sugar vs vinegar method - then proceed to the next level.... Some states disallow mandated arbitration, some provide their own (versus the crooked "Dispute resolution" services the manufacturers fund), check your local lemon laws. Generally, you'll have to notify the manufacturer and provide them with one last repair attempt anyway. A vibration is somewhat subjective, so you may have difficulty going this route - I'd start with respectfully contacting HMA.

Good luck!

Dear LLT,
I appreciate your very informative reply.
According to the repair report, Hyundai servive detected the noise from driveshaft channel by chassis ears, and then they repaced the new driveshaft assembly.
Until now Hyundai dealership did not show any evidence that which part of the old drive shaft assembly was defective.
This morning I heard the tapping noise again several times when I accelerate the car at about 30 MPH and also when I deccelete car at the same low speed ranges. I also felt prominent vibration on my back seat too. It seemed like that the noise came from the right rear side of the car.
I have a question. Is the rear axle is usually included in drive shaft assembly or not?
When I visit the Hyundai Service next time, I will ask checking with chassis ears, drive shaft balancing, and rear axle.
If you have some more useful information, please let me know.
Thanks.

 

[LLT]

The driveshaft connects the transmission in the front of the vehicle to the differential in the rear of the car. The driveshaft turns the gears in the differential and the differential turns the rear axle, and thus, the rear wheels. To answer your question, no the driveshaft is not part of the axle assembly. If the noise and vibration is isolated to the right rear of the vehicle, I'd suspect the right rear axle shaft or bearing. Sometimes it's difficult to isolate to one side of the vehicle or another. Resonance through the stabilizer bar, frame, etc. can make it seem like the problem is on one side, when it's in fact, on the other.... this is where chassis ears are helpful.

Is it for sure just a tapping noise? Is there any drone, humming or growling noise?

I wouldn't give up just yet. I'd start by finding a new dealership. "Techs" at any dealer aren't known to be the most competent in the industry and this is especially true for a Hyundai dealership. Just because they have fancy tools and equipment they don't know how to use and alleged factory training, does not mean they know your vehicle. In fact, I had a service advisor at a Hyundai dealer come out to the waiting room and say "for the life of me, the tech and I can't get the vehicle started, before we tow it in the shop, is there anything special you have to do?" I said "Yes, hold your foot on the brake and push the button." Mind numbingly stupid.

 

[Gen46Tech]

Dear LLT,
Thanks for such a quick anwser.
The character of noise is low-pitched tapping sound "d-d-d-d-d-d-d" usually for several seconds, and no humming or growling sound.
My concern is that Hyundai service cound not find the real cause of vibration and noise.
They said that the noise diappeared after the replacement of drive shaft assembly,
however the noise still happen.
Because the noise occurrs intermittently in certain conditions, it is hard to reproduce the symptom on demand.
The reason why I consider sue HMA is that not only Hyundai dealership technicians but also HMA regional service manager do not listen to my words.
That makes me really angry and frustrated.
I already asked HMA regional customer service manager to replace the vehicle with other one in a courteous letter.
However they refused. And they repeatedly saying there was no noise during testdrive without any further effort to find out the cause of problem. What should I do next?

 

[CanukV6]

Did the dealer replace the Driveshaft, or a "Half-Shaft"?

The Half-shaft connects the rear wheel to the Differential and has a Constant Velocity Joint (CVJ) at either end to allow for articulation between the rear suspension and the fixed differential. If either of these joints is defective or the half-shaft is out of balance, then this could be a source of your noise & vibration.

 

[krunchy]

Re: Forgettable driving experience and Terrible Consumer Affairs and Delership experi

After almost decades of owning premium / luxury cars, I made the regrettable decision to buy a Hyundai. All my friends and family were skeptical. I have spent the past several months working with dealers and HMA Consumer Affairs to address the problems. Every time they tell me they DO NOT see the problems. Is anyone else having these problems? The whole experience has been extremely disappointing.

1. Rattling / grinding sound: This is mostly when driving at lower gears (0-40mph). The rattling becomes faint when the car is in cruise mode.

2. Jerky transmission: the car jumps a gear very often while accelerating and decelerating

3. Squeaking / cranking sound from the rear seat when driving over a rough / bumpy road. Sometimes the noise is so loud, I am worried something may fall off.

4. Loud rumbling noise when starting the car first thing in the morning

5. Vibrations while driving, this got progressively worse and I noticed the passenger seat shaking back and forth.

6. The horizontal defog elements on rear wind screen give a hazy view at night

7. Tires are wearing off and tread is low at only 30k miles.

8. The cabin lights flicker when switched ON or the door is opened.

TROLL! You tried posting this same response in another thread today about tires and were asked to start your own thread. Your response has nothing to do with this thread. Start your own thread and people will respond politely.

 

[dataguy]

Re: Forgettable driving experience and Terrible Consumer Affairs and Delership experi

7. Tires are wearing off and tread is low at only 30k miles.

8. The cabin lights flicker when switched ON or the door is opened.

Re: #7, the OEM Dunlops are soft, performance-oriented tires. Depending on your driving habits and roads, they may wear out quickly. That's true for most sport tires. In fact, you'll usually see a disclaimer in the footnote of sales materials. For example, most Lexus cars state, "....performance tires are expected to experience greater tire wear than conventional tires. Tire life may substantially be less than 15,000 miles, depending upon driving conditions."

Tire life > 30K miles is pretty rare...either they put really cheap conventional tires on a car, or they put tires that have soft rubber on the performance options.

I'm at about 18K miles on my Genesis and the tread is down between 1/8 and 1/4 from new. I drive very conservatively. There have been others here who have replaced theirs in the teens.

Re: #8, had the same problem. My dealer replaced the dome light switch assembly and the problem completely went away, along with the probably related problem of my LED courtesy and plate bulbs burning out at an abnormally fast rate.

 

[3 tons]

I had a similar problem and it ended up being a not so detectable tire tread (from belt)seperation.

 

[Chief]

The OEM Dunlop tires are known to flatspot when sitting overnight. I almost always get a slight vibration for the first few miles until the tire regains its normal 'roundness'. It is worst when temeratures are cold and takes longer to recover. Balancing will not help this problem, it is a characteristic of the OEM tires.

I live in Florida. I have a 2011 4.6 with 1000 miles on the clock. The Dunlops are flat spotted for 10 miles before they round out. Still not perfect but what can you do?