Battery pre conditioning

[wolverine]

I can tell you on my car I've seen the battery conditioning light on my car turned several times on when the SOC was down around 10%.

Had a similar experience just a few minutes ago. We arrived at an EA charger with a 13% SOC and the conditioning indicator was on. But it had been on the whole time since before we went below 20%.

 

[upa]

A little more cold weather pre conditioning experimenting yesterday and today. Went on a 280 km highway trip yesterday at -8C ambient. My initial range calculation at highway speeds was suggesting at 100% charge would barely get me there. Since I don't like to visit less than 10% SOC in the winter I decided I needed to get at least a 15% top up at a DC charger 70 km into the journey. I plugged in the DC charger's destination in NAV and the battery warmer started right up upon departure and ran a total of 52 minutes prior to arriving at the DC charger. Cabin climate was set for 22C. The coldest pack was -8C prior to departure and was at 8C when I arrived at DC charger. A total battery temperature gain of 16C and 4.5 kW( or around 14km of battery range) used to warm the battery.

Today prior to departure I started preconditioning stationary with no cabin heat under similar conditions. Coldest pack temperature was -5C and it took only 35 minutes to reach the same 16C temperature delta as yesterday and a total 54 minutes to reach 21C (where the preconditioning turned itself off) or 26C degree delta . Today's 16C temperature delta used 3 kW of energy and 26C degree temperature delta used 4.5 kW . While subsequently driving on the highway for 30 minutes with no preconditioning but climate on I lost 8C in the coldest battery module. Not clear to me if the battery temperature loss is due to just ambient loss or if there was some scavenging loss effect for cabin heat from the heat pump/battery coolant loop. Nonetheless if the plan was a longer trip you probably want to keep the preconditioning going and factor in a relative continuous 4-5 kWh range loss for just battery heating.

So my take away from this experiment is that in very cold weather seriously consider preconditioning your battery prior to departure and then recharging those heating losses on your level 2 prior to leaving. Paying 20-30 cents at residential rates to precondition prior to departure is still much cheaper(efficient) than a dollar or more to replace those heating losses at the destination DC charger. Not to mention the significant DC charging savings if you pay by the minute. Second point is the battery heats up much quicker stationary with no cabin heat on( according to my experiment as much as 32% faster) . Third takeaway when its really cold keep your precondition on while on the highway, you will have battery heat losses no matter what but this will mitigate them significantly.

 

[Looney100]

Some good info, thanks. My experience monitoring pack temps while driving in cold weather is that the motion of the vehicle cools substantially, and the heater has trouble making any significant progress against it.

 

[harveye]

A little more cold weather pre conditioning experimenting yesterday and today. Went on a 280 km highway trip yesterday at -8C ambient. My initial range calculation at highway speeds was suggesting at 100% charge would barely get me there. Since I don't like to visit less than 10% SOC in the winter I decided I needed to get at least a 15% top up at a DC charger 70 km into the journey. I plugged in the DC charger's destination in NAV and the battery warmer started right up upon departure and ran a total of 52 minutes prior to arriving at the DC charger. Cabin climate was set for 22C. The coldest pack was -8C prior to departure and was at 8C when I arrived at DC charger. A total battery temperature gain of 16C and 4.5 kW( or around 14km of battery range) used to warm the battery.

Today prior to departure I started preconditioning stationary with no cabin heat under similar conditions. Coldest pack temperature was -5C and it took only 35 minutes to reach the same 16C temperature delta as yesterday and a total 54 minutes to reach 21C (where the preconditioning turned itself off) or 26C degree delta . Today's 16C temperature delta used 3 kW of energy and 26C degree temperature delta used 4.5 kW . While subsequently driving on the highway for 30 minutes with no preconditioning but climate on I lost 8C in the coldest battery module. Not clear to me if the battery temperature loss is due to just ambient loss or if there was some scavenging loss effect for cabin heat from the heat pump/battery coolant loop. Nonetheless if the plan was a longer trip you probably want to keep the preconditioning going and factor in a relative continuous 4-5 kWh range loss for just battery heating.

So my take away from this experiment is that in very cold weather seriously consider preconditioning your battery prior to departure and then recharging those heating losses on your level 2 prior to leaving. Paying 20-30 cents at residential rates to precondition prior to departure is still much cheaper(efficient) than a dollar or more to replace those heating losses at the destination DC charger. Not to mention the significant DC charging savings if you pay by the minute. Second point is the battery heats up much quicker stationary with no cabin heat on( according to my experiment as much as 32% faster) . Third takeaway when its really cold keep your precondition on while on the highway, you will have battery heat losses no matter what but this will mitigate them significantly.

Great detail and research (though I need to do C to F conversions :-( ) However, one thing went over my head. Where do you monitor and get data regarding temperature of "coldest pack," etc.??

 

[upa]

Great detail and research (though I need to do C to F conversions :-( ) However, one thing went over my head. Where do you monitor and get data regarding temperature of "coldest pack," etc.??

I use a OBD bluetooth dongle and app called carscanner.

 

[UKGV60]

My UK preconditions absolutely fine and it appears to make a big difference to charging speeds. Unfortunately because of the distance between work and the closest fast charger, it doesn't get to precondition (it appears). My friends BMW i4 seems to let him precondition remotely, seems a good idea. He might be confusing battery precondition with cabin heating etc potentially.

 

[GRHM]

My previous ev (iPace) had separate controls (both in-car and remote) for preconditioning. There is no mention of preconditioning in the UK GV60 manual and no facility in the app. Does anyone know if you can actually set preconditioning in a UK GV60 or can you only do this by charging the car upto your departure time?

 

[upa]

My previous ev (iPace) had separate controls (both in-car and remote) for preconditioning. There is no mention of preconditioning in the UK GV60 manual and no facility in the app. Does anyone know if you can actually set preconditioning in a UK GV60 or can you only do this by charging the car upto your departure time?

I am not sure how the UK GV60s are optioned, but as long as you have a battery heater you have the capacity for battery preconditioning. If you go in the EV menu and see something like the following you have battery heater and the preconditioning software.

 

[GRHM]

Thanks upa, I can see that option for the in-car controls and I'll have to check out how it works. With the iPace, before a long journey in cold conditions, I could let the car charge overnight and then remotely switch the pre-conditioning on a short time before departure so that both the range and the operating temperature were both optimised. There's no remote option with the GV60 but, the truth is that, where I live the temperatures are rarely so cold that this is a must-do requirement.

 

[upa]

Thanks upa, I can see that option for the in-car controls and I'll have to check out how it works. With the iPace, before a long journey in cold conditions, I could let the car charge overnight and then remotely switch the pre-conditioning on a short time before departure so that both the range and the operating temperature were both optimised. There's no remote option with the GV60 but, the truth is that, where I live the temperatures are rarely so cold that this is a must-do requirement.

Requirements for pre-conditioning to start are:

• Battery Pre-Conditioning has to be enabled in the EV menu( just tick the box)
• DC FAST CHARGER set as a destination in the native satnav (select a DC charger as destination from EV Chargers in NAV points of interest menu)
• high voltage battery temp below 21°C
• high voltage battery SOC at least 24%
• time to reach optimal temperature LESS THAN/ = travel time to charger(basically if you are much further than 30-40 minutes from your destination charger it will wait until you closer before it turns on the heater)
• distance to destination less than available range

if you meet all these conditions within 30-60 seconds you should see a brief message pop up indicating that preconditioning has started and the battery icon in the left lower corner of your driver's binnacle will change to a battery with a red coil in it. You can further verify the battery heater is on by checking the energy usage sub menu in EV menus, it should indicate 4-6kW being used by battery care.

If you have access to relatively fast high power DC chargers, say over 150KW+ its totally work running the preconditioning even in relatively warmer/cool temperature 10-15C as it will get you to the magic 25C threshold that will allow max charging right away. In the very least you will save alot of time at the expense of a modest amount of energy to heat the battery. If you have to pay for DC charge by the minute like in Canada it will also save a significant cost related to DC charging

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[pairadux]

One thing I haven't seen mentioned in regards to setting a DC fast charger into the NAV.... does the charger at the destination need to be green on the listed map? When I pull up the "chargers near me list (and I'm working on how to tweak what shows up on the list), some are grey and others are green. I thought I saw that being a requirement on a video I saw a little while ago.

EDIT: figured it out.... the green on icon on some of the charging stations just indicates whether or not the GV60 is getting information about availability or status of chargers. Looks like any of them should work.

 

[fredf]

A little more cold weather pre conditioning experimenting yesterday and today. Went on a 280 km highway trip yesterday at -8C ambient. My initial range calculation at highway speeds was suggesting at 100% charge would barely get me there. Since I don't like to visit less than 10% SOC in the winter I decided I needed to get at least a 15% top up at a DC charger 70 km into the journey. I plugged in the DC charger's destination in NAV and the battery warmer started right up upon departure and ran a total of 52 minutes prior to arriving at the DC charger. Cabin climate was set for 22C. The coldest pack was -8C prior to departure and was at 8C when I arrived at DC charger. A total battery temperature gain of 16C and 4.5 kW( or around 14km of battery range) used to warm the battery.

Today prior to departure I started preconditioning stationary with no cabin heat under similar conditions. Coldest pack temperature was -5C and it took only 35 minutes to reach the same 16C temperature delta as yesterday and a total 54 minutes to reach 21C (where the preconditioning turned itself off) or 26C degree delta . Today's 16C temperature delta used 3 kW of energy and 26C degree temperature delta used 4.5 kW . While subsequently driving on the highway for 30 minutes with no preconditioning but climate on I lost 8C in the coldest battery module. Not clear to me if the battery temperature loss is due to just ambient loss or if there was some scavenging loss effect for cabin heat from the heat pump/battery coolant loop. Nonetheless if the plan was a longer trip you probably want to keep the preconditioning going and factor in a relative continuous 4-5 kWh range loss for just battery heating.

So my take away from this experiment is that in very cold weather seriously consider preconditioning your battery prior to departure and then recharging those heating losses on your level 2 prior to leaving. Paying 20-30 cents at residential rates to precondition prior to departure is still much cheaper(efficient) than a dollar or more to replace those heating losses at the destination DC charger. Not to mention the significant DC charging savings if you pay by the minute. Second point is the battery heats up much quicker stationary with no cabin heat on( according to my experiment as much as 32% faster) . Third takeaway when its really cold keep your precondition on while on the highway, you will have battery heat losses no matter what but this will mitigate them significantly.

how do you turn on preconditioning while it's charging in your driveway?

 

[upa]

how do you turn on preconditioning while it's charging in your driveway?

You can't do it while charging, you have to turn the car on, select a nearby DC charger as a destination . Once your battery is warmed up, plug in your EVSE( charger) and get back the juice you lost preconditioning.

 

[Artie Shane]

You can't do it while charging, you have to turn the car on, select a nearby DC charger as a destination . Once your battery is warmed up, plug in your EVSE( charger) and get back the juice you lost preconditioning.

Surprisingly complicated process. I assume that after pre-conditioning (about 20-30 min.) you need to turn the car off before plugging in to charge... no?

 

[Absolut Sinno]

Thank you so much @upa and others for the valuable information on something that should have been explained in a straightforward manner by Genesis, one way or another. I just got the car here in Toronto 3 days ago and I travel a decent amount to go visit people and go skiing in and around Montreal and Quebec City, so coming up with a strategy to maximize range during cold winters is essential.

A few things I'm still scratching my head about:

1. You can't seem to be able to pre-condition remotely. You need to initiate it from inside the car. Am I supposed to turn the car on, set a DC destination then leave the car on and leave it outside unattended? (I don't have a garage)

2. You can't AC charge and battery pre-condition at the same time? What's the point of the status for battery pre-conditioning in the attached screenshot from the Canadian Genesis Connect app? It almost feels like they intended or be useful somehow.

3. I have read that the US version of the app allows to set a DC destination remotely, hence also initiating battery pre-conditioning, even though the filters are not optimal. Sounds like at least half a solution is available in the US. Should we push Canada side for something similar at the very minimum?

This car is AMAZING in sooooo many ways. I didn't take delivery of the model y ordered 3 years ago when they delivered it to me, once I realized what little I was receiving for what I was paying for. I'm beyond happy with what I received when I bought the GV60. The only issue is range, which I was able to justify with insanely fast charging. In cold winters, that's not the case, hence why finding a practical and reasonable solution using battery pre-conditioning is essential.

Any information that helps with this issue is very welcomed. Relying on Genesis dealer is close to useless, since they way less experience that any of us do. Does reaching out to Genesis Canada/USA help at all?

Thanks.

 

[upa]

Surprisingly complicated process. I assume that after pre-conditioning (about 20-30 min.) you need to turn the car off before plugging in to charge... no?

Yes I agree its cumbersome and less than ideal

Thank you so much @upa and others for the valuable information on something that should have been explained in a straightforward manner by Genesis, one way or another. I just got the car here in Toronto 3 days ago and I travel a decent amount to go visit people and go skiing in and around Montreal and Quebec City, so coming up with a strategy to maximize range during cold winters is essential.

A few things I'm still scratching my head about:

1. You can't seem to be able to pre-condition remotely. You need to initiate it from inside the car. Am I supposed to turn the car on, set a DC destination then leave the car on and leave it outside unattended? (I don't have a garage)

2. You can't AC charge and battery pre-condition at the same time? What's the point of the status for battery pre-conditioning in the attached screenshot from the Canadian Genesis Connect app? It almost feels like they intended or be useful somehow.

3. I have read that the US version of the app allows to set a DC destination remotely, hence also initiating battery pre-conditioning, even though the filters are not optimal. Sounds like at least half a solution is available in the US. Should we push Canada side for something similar at the very minimum?

This car is AMAZING in sooooo many ways. I didn't take delivery of the model y ordered 3 years ago when they delivered it to me, once I realized what little I was receiving for what I was paying for. I'm beyond happy with what I received when I bought the GV60. The only issue is range, which I was able to justify with insanely fast charging. In cold winters, that's not the case, hence why finding a practical and reasonable solution using battery pre-conditioning is essential.

Any information that helps with this issue is very welcomed. Relying on Genesis dealer is close to useless, since they way less experience that any of us do. Does reaching out to Genesis Canada/USA help at all?

Thanks.

You don't have to pre condition the battery before you leave, you can just simple do it enroute. I just find if the car is parked outdoors overnight and its colder than -15C there is some advantage to warming the battery before you leave. I find if its really cold the battery heater has a hard time overcoming the large temperature differential from -15C to 21C in a reasonable amount of time and overall keeping it warm at highway speeds. It has no problem heating up your battery while stationary. I guess if time is not a factor the most efficient way to preheat in very cold would be to just drive to you first DC charger , park before you get to the charger, and start preheating 20-30 minutes before you plug in. After your first DC charge you can just simply continue to precondition enroute as the battery will stay reasonably warm for the remainder of your trip.

 

[rickcinyyc]

Yes I agree its cumbersome and less than ideal



You don't have to pre condition the battery before you leave, you can just simple do it enroute. I just find if the car is parked outdoors overnight and its colder than -15C there is some advantage to warming the battery before you leave. I find if its really cold the battery heater has a hard time overcoming the large temperature differential from -15C to 21C in a reasonable amount of time and overall keeping it warm at highway speeds. It has no problem heating up your battery while stationary. I guess if time is not a factor the most efficient way to preheat in very cold would be to just drive to you first DC charger , park before you get to the charger, and start preheating 20-30 minutes before you plug in. After your first DC charge you can just simply continue to precondition enroute as the battery will stay reasonably warm for the remainder of your trip.

I'm going to use this information in my business case to my wife on why we need to get a garage heater.

 

[Artie Shane]

I'm going to use this information in my business case to my wife on why we need to get a garage heater.

That's a GREAT idea!

 

[nuku]

Yes I agree its cumbersome and less than ideal



You don't have to pre condition the battery before you leave, you can just simple do it enroute. I just find if the car is parked outdoors overnight and its colder than -15C there is some advantage to warming the battery before you leave. I find if its really cold the battery heater has a hard time overcoming the large temperature differential from -15C to 21C in a reasonable amount of time and overall keeping it warm at highway speeds. It has no problem heating up your battery while stationary. I guess if time is not a factor the most efficient way to preheat in very cold would be to just drive to you first DC charger , park before you get to the charger, and start preheating 20-30 minutes before you plug in. After your first DC charge you can just simply continue to precondition enroute as the battery will stay reasonably warm for the remainder of your trip.

Hello upa, we just picked up a slightly used ev60. We were testing out the battery preconditioning this weekend and even though the message popped up, the battery icon did not have a coil show up on it. Rather, the bolt symbol that was there, disappeared. We are in Toronto and the weather was around 0 degrees and could only get up to 180 max on the Petro Canada super fast 350 chargers. Does the coil symbol always appear when preconditioning kicks in?

 

[Looney100]

Hello upa, we just picked up a slightly used ev60. We were testing out the battery preconditioning this weekend and even though the message popped up, the battery icon did not have a coil show up on it. Rather, the bolt symbol that was there, disappeared. We are in Toronto and the weather was around 0 degrees and could only get up to 180 max on the Petro Canada super fast 350 chargers. Does the coil symbol always appear when preconditioning kicks in?

180 kW is certainly nothing to be disappointed about. What battery percentage were you at when you started? You could also have been limited by the charger...

The car tops out at ~240 kW, and that is only available for a limited period of time and with a SOC below ~50%.
Given the additional heat at 240 kW, the car may need to slow the charge even sooner. I've seen some videos that would suggest that the 10-80% time on a 150 kW charger is <5 minutes longer than on a 350 kW charger.