Brake job - Have dealer do it, find an independent shop, or do it myself?

[orange260z]

Great info regarding moisture brake fluid. As mine is 6 years old now, it's definitely due! As for changing rear pads, I just made sure the parking brakes were not engaged and the rear rotors came right off. As I never use the parking brake, my parking brake shoes were like new and did not need adjusting or replacing.

@lobewiper1 , I'm going to qualify my comments to follow by noting that I do not know how a shift-by-wire/park-by-wire system works, and am assuming that mechanically they are still the same as the old mechanical versions.

I'd highly recommend making a habit of regularly using the parking brake for a couple of reasons:
(1) use it or lose it - unless it's used somewhat regularly, things tend to seize up and the brake may not be functioning when you need it; and
(2) usage reduces wear/damage to your automatic transmission's "parking pawl" that locks the transmission when you put it into park.

Ever put a transmission into "park" on a slope and have to put extra effort into shifting it out? That's because the weight of the vehicle is being supported by the parking pawl (pin), which isn't really what it's designed for. Even the mild slope on your driveway causes extra wear to your transmission that can be avoided by use of the parking brake. On a steep slope or just from repeated use on mild slopes this can cause significant damage to an automatic transmission.

Now I'm, not 100% sure if this car automatically engages the parking brake when P is pressed, but I don't think so.

In my family we've made it a habit to engage the parking brake every time we park a car, that way it just becomes natural. I come to a stop, and engage the parking brake before removing my foot from the brake. I let the car rest onto the parking brake, then shift into Park. That way the transmission is completely unloaded. I do this in our manual and automatic transmission cars for consistency.

One of my biggest peeves with my new G70 is that the parking brake automatically releases if you shift from Neutral into R or D; even after a few months I occasionally find myself shifting the car into R after I've already engaged the brake and pressed P, just out of ~37 year habit and switching between cars with normal shifters.

 

[Volfy]

In over 60 years of doing my own wrenching, I've never had rotors turned. I'd be surprised that a dealer would suggest that since the warranty for that work falls on them if there is an issue. If the rotors need turning (only needed if you ignore the pad warning lights and run the pads down to metal so you have metal-to-metal contact) - then they actually need replacement. Turning used rotors will likely bring them to close to or under the manufacturer's minimum specified thickness. I know there are scads of alternative rotors (and pads) available for Porsches, given the number of vehicles Genesis is selling I imagine the same is true for your G70.

K. I'm gonna call BS on both statements.

This is the set of front rotors my local O'Reily's turned for $25 a corner.


They had some 7-8k miles on them prior to getting them turned, so they had some wear already. The factory standards are:

(per factory service manual: https://www.kstinger.com/disc_brakes_and_pads-351.html )

- Standard : 30 mm (1.18 in.)
- Service limit : 28.4 mm (1.11 in.)

Below is measured right after resurfacing. So taking into account the wear that my 7-8k miles incurred, the resurfaces removed at most 0.1-0.2mm per side. The result is nowhere close to the service limit.


Even more than the cost savings vs. buying brand new rotors, resurfacing can actually have performance benefits. Unlike brand new rotors, a good set of used rotors has gone through enough heat cycles to have relieved any remaining post-machining residual stresses. As a result, used rotors can be more dimensionally stable than a set of "green" rotors. Racers quite often prefer rebuilding from used engine blocks, instead of "green" blocks for this very reason.

So, is resurfacing necessary? Not always. I didn't turn the rear rotors on this very same car. However, to say that resurfacing is unnecessary just because you've never done it in your 60yrs is ignorant at best.

Not everybody drives their cars the same way. Not all rotors are worn the same either. There will be some that might be cupped and/or grooved worse than others. If you don't resurface a set of rotors that really needed it, and you turn around to go run a track day, you're gonna have uneven partial contact of the wearing surfaces , which could cause heat spots and possibly brake fade. And you don't need to run track to work your brakes hard. Running down mountain passes can be just as taxing - and potentially far more dangerous.

Just like not flushing brake fluid regularly, most folks get away with it because they don't drive their vehicles all that hard, so the brakes never got tested severely enough for these issues to rear their ugly heads. If that's your own car and that's how you want to continue to operate, more power to you. But to give such uninformed advice to others without knowing how they might run their car?! Especially in a forum talking about a 368HP SPORT SEDAN?! That's a big no-no.

 

[srobak]

Even if you did use your parking brake - unless you are doing so for emergency/non-function of main brakes - the parking brake should never wear or require replacement. It only engages when the vehicle is stopped.

 

[srobak]

If the rotors need turning (only needed if you ignore the pad warning lights and run the pads down to metal so you have metal-to-metal contact)

Huh? First - that's not what the warning light means or is for. 2nd - rotors warp (run-out) due to excessive heat generation. This can be done on rotors/pads with as little as 5 miles on them, fully-bedded pads & rotors with 5k on them, or a highway queen with 50k on them. It largely depends on how you use your brakes - and if you abuse them... until they start getting up in age, or if the wheels were torqued improperly (and then combined with high heat).

Turning used rotors will likely bring them to close to or under the manufacturer's minimum specified thickness.

Flatly false. An unabused set of factory rotors on just about everything can accommodate at least 1 turn before falling under spec. Also - it is a violation for any shop to release turned rotors which then measure under spec after the turn. Unless it is some good-ol-boy shop down south - you are not going to find many shops who are willing to risk the liability or the mechanics ticket to release an unsafe vehicle with thinned rotors.

 

[Volfy]

Flatly false. An unabused set of factory rotors on just about everything can accommodate at least 1 turn before falling under spec. Also - it is a violation for any shop to release turned rotors which then measure under spec after the turn. Unless it is some good-ol-boy shop down south - you are not going to find many shops who are willing to risk the liability or the mechanics ticket to release an unsafe vehicle with thinned rotors.

Correct.

The first thing any shop would do before chucking the rotor on the lathe... is to measure the rotor thickness at several places. If the measurements don't show enough for resurfacing, they won't even do it.

When they do turn the rotor, they will shave off just enough to true up the wearing surfaces. Not only is this in the best interest of the customer, it is also in their own best interest to spend as little time doing as little work as necessary to get the job done right.

 

[JCtx]

my parking brake shoes were like new, and did not need adjusting or replacing.

I'm almost sure our G70s (and most other cars, except high-end ones with mono-block 4+ piston calipers) use the rear calipers as parking brake, so it's the same pads as the brakes. An electric motor 'screws' (for lack of a better word) an actuator over the piston, to mechanically clamp the pads onto the rotor. If you have any wear on the pads, you wouldn't be able to squeeze the new pads in place unless you fully retract the actuator, and that requires a scanner. Unless you can see a 2nd caliper thru your rear wheels, you don't have a dedicated parking brake caliper. My '24 20T Sport Prestige does NOT have one, and I doubt 3.3Ts have either, since they have the same rear brakes, I believe (only the fronts are different). Check thru your wheels, and report rack.

And there's absolutely no need to engage the parking brake often at all. It's a sealed system, so it's not going to rust or anything... although the rotors might.

 

[lobewiper1]

@lobewiper1 , I'm going to qualify my comments to follow by noting that I do not know how a shift-by-wire/park-by-wire system works, and am assuming that mechanically they are still the same as the old mechanical versions.

I'd highly recommend making a habit of regularly using the parking brake for a couple of reasons:
(1) use it or lose it - unless it's used somewhat regularly, things tend to seize up and the brake may not be functioning when you need it; and
(2) usage reduces wear/damage to your automatic transmission's "parking pawl" that locks the transmission when you put it into park.

Ever put a transmission into "park" on a slope and have to put extra effort into shifting it out? That's because the weight of the vehicle is being supported by the parking pawl (pin), which isn't really what it's designed for. Even the mild slope on your driveway causes extra wear to your transmission that can be avoided by use of the parking brake. On a steep slope or just from repeated use on mild slopes this can cause significant damage to an automatic transmission.

Now I'm, not 100% sure if this car automatically engages the parking brake when P is pressed, but I don't think so.

In my family we've made it a habit to engage the parking brake every time we park a car, that way it just becomes natural. I come to a stop, and engage the parking brake before removing my foot from the brake. I let the car rest onto the parking brake, then shift into Park. That way the transmission is completely unloaded. I do this in our manual and automatic transmission cars for consistency.

One of my biggest peeves with my new G70 is that the parking brake automatically releases if you shift from Neutral into R or D; even after a few months I occasionally find myself shifting the car into R after I've already engaged the brake and pressed P, just out of ~37 year habit and switching between cars with normal shifters.

Hi orange,

I almost never park on inclines, so I don't think I've damaged my transmission. Thanks for nice explanation of the need to use parking brake in conjunction with PARK on drive selector, though.

 

[blnewto]

I pretty much always use my parking brake in every vehicle whenever I park the car, it's just a habit that I've gotten into. With the new electronic brake levers it's even easier to pretty much give it no thought lol.

 

[orange260z]

I'm almost sure our G70s (and most other cars, except high-end ones with mono-block 4+ piston calipers) use the rear calipers as parking brake, so it's the same pads as the brakes. An electric motor 'screws' (for lack of a better word) an actuator over the piston, to mechanically clamp the pads onto the rotor. If you have any wear on the pads, you wouldn't be able to squeeze the new pads in place unless you fully retract the actuator, and that requires a scanner. Unless you can see a 2nd caliper thru your rear wheels, you don't have a dedicated parking brake caliper. My '24 20T Sport Prestige does NOT have one, and I doubt 3.3Ts have either, since they have the same rear brakes, I believe (only the fronts are different). Check thru your wheels, and report rack.

And there's absolutely no need to engage the parking brake often at all. It's a sealed system, so it's not going to rust or anything... although the rotors might.

@JCtx ,

As you can see from the attached Hyundai/Genesis parts diagram, at least the 2023 G70 3.3 SP uses a "drum within a disc" style parking brake. There is no dedicated parking brake caliper in these systems, it is a drum brake system hidden within the disc hub.

Although I know that the type of system you're referring to is on some cars, most (all?) cars I've worked on with rear disc brakes have used a system similar to the G70 except with the EPB, instead of having a long cable system from the front brake lever to the rear brakes we have electric actuators that pull a shorter cable to engage.

Perhaps in Southern US states corrosion is not a concern, but here in the north parking brakes definitely seize up (cables, springs, sliding components, etc) from lack of use.

 

[Andyj]

@JCtx ,

As you can see from the attached Hyundai/Genesis parts diagram, at least the 2023 G70 3.3 SP uses a "drum within a disc" style parking brake. There is no dedicated parking brake caliper in these systems, it is a drum brake system hidden within the disc hub.

Although I know that the type of system you're referring to is on some cars, most (all?) cars I've worked on with rear disc brakes have used a system similar to the G70 except with the EPB, instead of having a long cable system from the front brake lever to the rear brakes we have electric actuators that pull a shorter cable to engage.

Perhaps in Southern US states corrosion is not a concern, but here in the north parking brakes definitely seize up (cables, springs, sliding components, etc) from lack of use.

The same with our 2015 Genesis sedan. The rear brakes consist of a traditional drum and shoe parking brake system within the rotor.

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[onecrappie]

See dealer quote below.

Just the brake job is close to $2000. I've done full pad/rotors on my other vehicles so I'm not too worried about doing this myself. The rotors still look amazing so I don't feel like they need any work done to them. Just replacing pads.

What are your thoughts? Would a dealer doing it be any better than an independent shop? Is that price wild?

View attachment 56951

I changed mine to stop tech rotors and pads. Takes about 30 mins per wheel. They are 4 wheel disk brakes, two pins to remove and replace on each wheel. If you change rotors, the only booger was the mounting screw. Some idiot had used an impact on the fronts and stripped them out.

 

[lobewiper1]

To whichever of you is planning to do their own brakes: At least on my 2018 G80, the front calipers have 4 pistons. The use of a spreader tool makes it much easier to retract the pistons. See:

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B086H2R1B5?ref=ppx_yo2ov_dt_b_product_details&th=1

See dealer quote below.

 

[JCtx]

at least the 2023 G70 3.3 SP uses a "drum within a disc" style parking brake.

I MUCH prefer the 'drum in a disc' parking brake system (which also needs an actuator), than the actuator on the rear calipers. Most modern vehicles are switching to the latter due to cheaper cost, so I'm afraid my '24 2.0T SP might have that one. With the former system, there's zero need to do anything to the rear calipers to change pads, other than just retract the pistons enough to fit new ones. But the newer systems with an actuator on the rear caliper, which actually uses the same caliper piston to mechanically (rather than hydraulically, like when using the brakes) clamp the rear rotors by 'screwing' the piston onto the rotors, it needs to get retracted first. It's easy to tell if you have that system, since an electric actuator is attached to the caliper. I haven't seen where the actuator is on the 3.3T G70s, but it should be inside the drum area, where it needs to push both shoes against the inner drum. The only advantage of the rear caliper actuator is it's more powerful. The drum-in-disc is weaker, and sometimes it can slip on steeper inclines, although a second application of the switch should clamp harder, I believe. Thank you for your input. Will check my 2.0T SP tomorrow, and report back what I saw.

 

[JCtx]

I'm happy to report my '23 2.0T SP has the same 'drum-in-disk' parking brake as my ex-'22 G70 3.3T SP. The rear brakes are identical; only the fronts are different. Wheels, tires, and everything else outside (except the dual fake exhaust tips) is the same on the 2.0T SP than the 3.3T SP. Wish my less powerful 2.0T would have come with all-season tires though, so will have to replace them soon. Oh well. I know the AWD version comes with A/S tires, but didn't want AWD, plus I don't like how the skinny 225s look at the back (AWDs have 225s all around).

 

[blnewto]

I'm happy to report my '23 2.0T SP has the same 'drum-in-disk' parking brake as my ex-'22 G70 3.3T SP. The rear brakes are identical; only the fronts are different. Wheels, tires, and everything else outside (except the dual fake exhaust tips) is the same on the 2.0T SP than the 3.3T SP. Wish my less powerful 2.0T would have come with all-season tires though, so will have to replace them soon. Oh well. I know the AWD version comes with A/S tires, but didn't want AWD, plus I don't like how the skinny 225s look at the back (AWDs have 225s all around).

Rear brakes are similar? Brembo fixed calipers vs. the non-Brembo floaters? Or are you just referring to the parking brake (or is there a Brembo option for the 2.0??) Our 23 G70 AWD 2.0 Sport Prestige had floating calipers fwiw.

 

[orange260z]

I'm happy to report my '23 2.0T SP has the same 'drum-in-disk' parking brake as my ex-'22 G70 3.3T SP. The rear brakes are identical; only the fronts are different. Wheels, tires, and everything else outside (except the dual fake exhaust tips) is the same on the 2.0T SP than the 3.3T SP. Wish my less powerful 2.0T would have come with all-season tires though, so will have to replace them soon. Oh well. I know the AWD version comes with A/S tires, but didn't want AWD, plus I don't like how the skinny 225s look at the back (AWDs have 225s all around).

AWD 3.3T SP can come with staggered Michelin summers, they do in Canada at least.

 

[FirstTurbo]

I could have said the same at one time. Then your body gets older and you find it is easier to write a check than to pull wheels off,.

I'm close to your sentiments. Even worse, braking parts during the repair or dealing with frozen nuts. No not living in Alaska,,,

 

[FirstTurbo]

Brake fluid absorbs moisture, so it's always better to change it, even if it still looks relatively clear. As far as changing the rear pads, we reportedly have to do some kind of electronic parking brake retraction first, via a scanner, right? The issue is that most scanners (at least not the stupid expensive ones) only cover vehicles like 4 to 5 years old. Fortunately, my car shouldn't need it before that age, but just curious, like if you want to change pads or something. Thanks.

A sealed brake system shouldn't take on too much moisture. I've gone 10-15 on 2 Xterras and 20 years on Infin FX45. Never an issue Keep the cap closed.

 

[srobak]

That's not a very good maintenance practice. After that many years the hydraulic fluid has to be pitch black from heat and viscosity loss. Should flush that every 3-5 years or so.

 

[Volfy]

A sealed brake system shouldn't take on too much moisture. I've gone 10-15 on 2 Xterras and 20 years on Infin FX45. Never an issue Keep the cap closed.

Except, no brake system is sealed from ambient air. For a hydraulic brake system to function, it must allow for expansion/contraction of the working fluid, as well as volumetric change from worn pads. So, it is almost always vented to atmosphere. Heck, even "sealed" brand new brake fluid bottles - if left unused long enough - will eventual absorb enough moisture and darken. I've learned this the hard way and so I no longer buy brake fluid unless I'm ready to use it.

Most drivers get away with old wet brake fluid because most drivers don't really push their cars all that hard, so the brakes don't get hot enough to boil even old wet fluid with reduced boiling point. But... if you chance upon a situation where the brakes do need to work hard - like down steep long descents through mountain passes - you're taking a big risk of vapor locking your brake system, with some potentially deadly consequences. This guy was originally sentenced to 110yrs for killing 4 people when his truck's brakes failed.

Truck driver's sentence reduced from 110 years to 10 by Colorado governor in fatal crash

Gov. Jared Polis commuted Rogel Aguilera-Mederos’ sentence by 100 years, calling the 2019 accident a “tragic but unintentional act.”

www.nbcnews.com

Don't be like him.