Brakes Failed

[Seejay]

I just don't get this guy. How can you empty the back seat, and still feel like the car's not stopping up short? I'm more worried about the guy behind me stopping in time if I really stomp on the brakes. From most any speed.

I had my leg completely into the pedal and it was nearly to the floor. I am very strong in the legs. The tires made no noise, the ABS was not engaged and i got no pressure assist. The car did stop straight though. Under no circumstances was it an experience i would call normal.

@nickpike I am not sure we get that for North America in the ultimate package. I just have the signature package.

 

[jsmit86]

It sounds like you have an issue, but generally speaking, the Genesis is reasonably competitive in braking performance:

Genesis V8 Braking, 70-0 mph: 171 ft
Others
Lexus GS350 70-0 mph: 165 ft
Audi A6 Braking, 70-0 mph: 175 ft
2014 BMW 535i xDrive 172 FT
2014 Cadillac CTS 3.6 158 FT
2014 Mercedes-Benz E350 175 ft
Lexus ES 350 175 ft

The Cadillac is a standout in the class. I think the V6 G2 should perform a bit under the 171 ft mark since it weighs less.

My brakes are fine, and they have a reasonably linear feel. If anything, I find they bite a bit hard at the beginning of the pedal until they warm up, but that's just a nit pick.

The best brakes I've had were on a 2003 Infiniti G35. 153 FT from 70-0. IIRC, they out-performed just about everything on the road at the time except a Ferrari Enzo. The downside, they went through pads well before 20K miles, and that's with normal driving. Also lots and lots of dust on the wheels.

 

[kn5owa]

My brakes are fine, and they have a reasonably linear feel. If anything, I find they bite a bit hard at the beginning of the pedal until they warm up, but that's just a nit pick.

Agreed - mine seem to engage quickly at first until warm-up -- probably rust build-up. Overall they are hard and firm - the way brakes should be.

Warped rotors: Two reasons

1. Kids with impact wrenches - the biggest contributor to warped rotors in my experience.

2. Hosing off hot wheels/rotors with water. Cold water is not nice to a hot rotor.

 

[Seejay]

Wow, yes, the best brakes I can recently remember was a 1996 Nissan Altima of all things. The pads had to be replaced every 25k miles, made lots of red dust, but they were outstanding. Outstanding pedal feedback.

After a long talk on the phone with an agent, it seems like I might be getting somewhere with HMA consumer affairs. I can keep forum members apprised of the situation as it develops, if you want. The thing that clinched it for him that something was not right was me telling him that i pumped the pedal once before i fully applied the brake to stop. I have developed that habit from 3000 miles of driving. That's how bad they are.

 

[Alwaysforward]

Did you follow the break in process for the brakes:

No special break-in period is needed.
By following a few simple precautions
for the first 600 miles (1,000
km) you may add to the performance,
economy and life of your vehicle.
• Do not race the engine.
• While driving, keep your engine
speed (rpm, or revolutions per
minute) between 2,000 rpm and
4,000 rpm.
• Do not maintain a single speed for
long periods of time, either fast or
slow. Varying engine speed is
needed to properly break-in the
engine.
• Avoid hard stops, except in emergencies,
to allow the brakes to seat
properly.

 

[jsmit86]

Wow, yes, the best brakes I can recently remember was a 1996 Nissan Altima of all things. The pads had to be replaced every 25k miles, made lots of red dust, but they were outstanding. Outstanding pedal feedback.

After a long talk on the phone with an agent, it seems like I might be getting somewhere with HMA consumer affairs. I can keep forum members apprised of the situation as it develops, if you want. The thing that clinched it for him that something was not right was me telling him that i pumped the pedal once before i fully applied the brake to stop. I have developed that habit from 3000 miles of driving. That's how bad they are.

That is definitely NOT normal. Let us know how you make out.

 

[Genentec]

stupid dealer gonna f u up man. get a lawyer asap. i had to deal with these idiet dealers when they damaged my paint....they wanted to use touch up paint. i was like what ? they gonna screw u. get a lawyer

 

[jsmit86]

I'll add a comment:

If you have been consistently having to pump the brakes like that, and the dealer cannot fix it, and/or says that is normal, I'd get to another dealer pronto. If that was normal, every review of this car would have panned it.

AFAIK, I have not seen any negative reviews of the brakes. Certainly not to this degree.

 

[MikeyTG]

Having to pump the brakes to make the pedal firm is a sign of a bad master cylinder, at least it was in the olden days. Needless to say this should be fixed ASAP, if it fails further the pedal may one day go to the floor and stay there.

 

[Seejay]

Thanks everybody for your replies and advice. I've been told by consumer affairs to expect communication from a zone manager in 3-4 days.

As Mikey pointed out, pedal pumping was the clue to a bad master cylinder in the olden days. An EBU modifies the situation somewhat. If the EBU releases too much pressure (it does this during anti-lock and stability control transitions), it could cause the same effect. I've noticed that the brakes are somewhat better when i turn all the "nannies" off.

And while i wasn't crazy about how the brake pedal felt on the other Genesis sedans i test drove (slightly vague and electronicky--par for the course nowadays), they all exhibited a nice firmness about 2 inches in and conveyed to the driver a sense of confidence that the car would stop when you used them.

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[Gunkk]

What Seejay described (originally and above) is akin to the problems the 1G had when the HECU's corroded and the valves stuck open. The pucker factor effect happened to me with my '09 and my dealer replaced the HECU (mine was before the 1G recall).

Before that HECU failure in my '09 and after the fix, and again with my 2012, the brake pedal was and remains always consistently firm. And as others have said, if I stomp on the brake pedal it tries to put me through the windshield. I found a 2G V6 to be similarly firm and confident when I test drove one. When functioning properly, the Genesis has excellent brakes.

Seejay, you obviously have a fault somewhere, and my money is on the HECU. Tell the zone manager that if they don't fix it correctly your next stop is NHTSA. They do accept near miss complaints.

 

[Seejay]

Well, i got the issue resolved. An aggressive shakedown (I am too nice to brakes) and bleeding of the system fixed the problem.

During test drives with my car, a "benchmark" demo, and a v6 ultimate with the customer care rep, I noticed that the brake pedal on the ultimate v6 was very much like the 2016 Sonata Turbo I test drove. Much much better than what i have and the customer care rep said "Yep, that's true, it's a different brake system."

I could not get the rep or the service manager to understand what I was talking about until i put a small styrofoam cup weighted with a paper napkin soaked with water on the dash and it didn't move once while I drove around in heavy traffic.

Other than this issue with the brake pedal, I have zero complaints about the car. It's been great. It took me quite a while to adjust my driving from front to rear drive.

 

[sub780lime]

Wait, so a brake line bleed fixed the issue?

 

[Seejay]

I think it was more a system bleed down than just the lines. That's what I was told by the service manager.

 

[DRV2WIN]

After Reading this thread it's helpful info I'll use when I see the dealer this Friday. I'm also having brake fad on my 2012 Genesis 5.0 R Spec.

Thxs
Ken

 

[homeofstone]

After Reading this thread it's helpful info I'll use when I see the dealer this Friday. I'm also having brake fad on my 2012 Genesis 5.0 R Spec.

Thxs
Ken

Brake fade can be caused by the type of brake pads or very worn brake pads.

 

[DRV2WIN]

I'm planning to have them replaced hope it's that simple!!

 

[glennk]

How many miles? Are you getting any grinding or squealing sound?

 

[BillZ]

The wheels do not have to be removed to install the mud guards, so unless they were looking for extra work, that's probably not when the problem occurred.