Can some one make it clear? Responsiveness?!

[Cobra]

Hi all, watched few reviews of cars including Genesis, well the guys talk about few things that i can get it like ( responsive steering, road feel.. Etc) what do they mean by that? Whats meant if a car has no responsive steering? Cant get it!!!

 

[OneFunGenesis]

Interesting question. If you have to ask this, then you probably aren't concerned about it.

Basically, it is how much feedback about the road do you feel in the steering wheel? Over years of technology and power steering inventions, there has become less and less direct road feel in the steering wheel. Some people like this and some people don't.

Back in the days of no power steering, you used to be able to feel every single crack in the road right through the steering wheel. This also aided in the responsiveness of the steering as it comes to moving the car. Because of direct contact with the steering wheel in the days of no PS (power Steering) when you turned the wheel, the car turned too.

Now, PS is not a bad thing. Some people complain that there isn't enough road feedback in the steering wheel and that they would like to feel it a bit more to know exactly what the wheels are doing.

Also, you question might ALSO be related to suspension. As, you see, you can have a well responding car to the inputs of the wheel, just to have that motion robbed by body roll. If you have a car that has a lot of body roll, then the steering will seem to be sluggish and like you are driving a boat. Some cars have tighter suspensions than others, allowing them to handle, or "respond", better than others.

There is a drawback to a tighter suspension, however. You will begin to lose ride quality. You will start to feel more of the road in your seat. Bumps can become annoying and getting over road imperfections become something to avoid.

I hope this answers your question as I was not 100 on what exactly your question was.

OFG

 

[WowCool]

A good generalization of steering feel, Over & Under steer are another matter.
Various marques specialize in agile/feel steering response:- Lotus, Porsche, Ferrari and Beemer M's plus a few more..
The average driver accepts how it is on their current car.. B U T - drive a higher end sportier marque and the difference is amazing.. Try a Lotus or even a Caterham7, now that's a steering with F E E L...

 

[Cobra]

Interesting question. If you have to ask this, then you probably aren't concerned about it.

Basically, it is how much feedback about the road do you feel in the steering wheel? Over years of technology and power steering inventions, there has become less and less direct road feel in the steering wheel. Some people like this and some people don't.

Back in the days of no power steering, you used to be able to feel every single crack in the road right through the steering wheel. This also aided in the responsiveness of the steering as it comes to moving the car. Because of direct contact with the steering wheel in the days of no PS (power Steering) when you turned the wheel, the car turned too.

Now, PS is not a bad thing. Some people complain that there isn't enough road feedback in the steering wheel and that they would like to feel it a bit more to know exactly what the wheels are doing.

Also, you question might ALSO be related to suspension. As, you see, you can have a well responding car to the inputs of the wheel, just to have that motion robbed by body roll. If you have a car that has a lot of body roll, then the steering will seem to be sluggish and like you are driving a boat. Some cars have tighter suspensions than others, allowing them to handle, or "respond", better than others.

There is a drawback to a tighter suspension, however. You will begin to lose ride quality. You will start to feel more of the road in your seat. Bumps can become annoying and getting over road imperfections become something to avoid.

I hope this answers your question as I was not 100 on what exactly your question was.

OFG

Thanks alot your answer is very informative i understand it very well now!! So what about genesis!! According to your explanation and my feels from genny, i think genesis is not too bad its responsive, may be not too responsive but not bad at same time!! Right?

 

[Cobra]

A good generalization of steering feel, Over & Under steer are another matter.
Various marques specialize in agile/feel steering response:- Lotus, Porsche, Ferrari and Beemer M's plus a few more..
The average driver accepts how it is on their current car.. B U T - drive a higher end sportier marque and the difference is amazing.. Try a Lotus or even a Caterham7, now that's a steering with F E E L...

thanks , if i can take a lotus to a test drive definitely i will get exact meaning of steering feel

 

[GenesisCaptain]

thanks , if i can take a lotus to a test drive definitely i will get exact meaning of steering feel

Go test drive a Mini or a Mazda MX-5. Those two are accessible to the world and well known for their awesome responsiveness. Then, if you have time, check out a BMW 128i or BMW 328i. The 128 has crazy-awesome responsiveness. The 328i is also outstanding and is the best balance of comfortable ride (though it is harsh by Toyota Avalon standards) and responsiveness.

Then you will have a frame of reference for the Genesis.

 

[CC4.6]

Example of un-responsive steering:

 

[OneFunGenesis]

Thanks alot your answer is very informative i understand it very well now!! So what about genesis!! According to your explanation and my feels from genny, i think genesis is not too bad its responsive, may be not too responsive but not bad at same time!! Right?

In my opinion, the Genesis has the perfect mixture of ride comfort and responsiveness. I came from a lowered sports car that was extremely responsive and then I drove my Genesis and I like it. Much more comfortable, but still itsn't afraid to steer.

An example of something afraid to steer would be a Lexus GS/ES line. or the Acura RL. Those are boats and handle very much like them.

A mini is on rails. That thing will turn if you sneeze.

 

[PMCErnie]

"Lack of responsiveness" is when you pick up a new Playboy mag and turn to the celebrity interview section first.

 

[Mark_888]

An example of something afraid to steer would be a Lexus GS/ES line. or the Acura RL. Those are boats and handle very much like them.

I don't think that is true of their latest models. Lexus has changed in the last few years, and most models (except maybe ES) now offer F Sport versions that handle quite well. Acura RL is improved also.

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[mikec]

Ever try to take an action picture with a slow digital camera? And ended up missing the action? That's slow/poor response. A car with slow response steering will "lag" your steering wheel inputs for a moment in time, just like a slow camera. For basic highway driving, or slow around-town driving, you'd probably never notice - it doesn't take long for your brain to adapt and learn to compensate by moving the steering wheel a little earlier. However, if you were trying to aim at a precise spot on a curving road, at high speeds (i.e. sports car driving) that lag would drive you nuts. A responsive car turns quickly and is in general more predictable when "having fun" driving.

Lots of things slow steering response in a vehicle. ANY rubber part in the steering system, suspension, and obviously the rubber tires will flex a bit when forces on it change. When you turn the steering wheel, rubber couplings in the steering column may flex, leading to a slight delay between your steering wheel input and the twist/movement of whatever is on the other side of that coupler. The suspension parts of road cars attach via rubber "bushings" to the bolts and other suspension parts; these bushings soften the ride a little and really filter out road vibrations... but they squish a bit when you ask the vehicle to turn... adding delays again. The tire also twists - between the rim and the "contact patch" on the pavement. That's why you find "low profile" tires on sports cars and tires with lots of road isolating rubber between the rim and contact patch on cushy riding vehicles.

Pure race cars pretty much have NO rubber bushings anywhere. They'd rattle your teeth out on all but pool-table smooth roads... but the steering is RIGHT NOW crisp. Cars with worn or by-design soft bushings (prioritizing ride quality over handling) often have magnified steering issues: you make a steering input, the bushings squish or deform, then - being rubber - they rebound and change shape, screwing up your steering input. So besides delaying your inputs, bushings can actually cause minor oscillations in the actual steering angle at the tires. VERY disconcerting when trying to maneuver quickly.

And, as OneFunGenesis posted, any motions the car body makes will detract from the steering a bit. You move the steering wheel, commanding the front wheels to aim differently. Yet as soon as the car begins to respond, the body rolls (leans) instead of yawing (rotating in the direction you want to turn) until the suspension springs & anti-roll bar stiffnesses build up and stop the roll.

Another factor totally unrelated to time delays: the gearing ratio between the steering wheel and the front tires. Some cars, especially large "boats" and pickups, make you turn the steering wheel further to make a normal turn compared to a sports car. It's physically hard to crank the steering wheel a long ways, especially when you're trying to drive fast. Of course the gearing ratio can be too bad the opposite way too; then the steering may be "touchy" as it becomes difficult to actually steer where you want to - the steering wheel inputs become too small to reliably do. Race car drivers are used to this... street car drivers would over-control the vehicle and end up in a ditch. Imagine the gas pedal moving only half an inch... you'd never find the right spot to maintain a desired MPH.

Suspension design can affect steering response too. The idea of a suspension is to allow wheels to move up/down over bumps and dips and remain in contact with the ground. Ideally with the tread FLAT against the ground. This is actually quite hard to do consistently. Hold your right arm straight out from your shoulder and make a fist. Pretend the fist is the tire, your shoulders are the car body. Move your fist up and down and watch the motion. Notice your fist is really moving in a shallow arc? And that the bottom of your fist does not stay parallel to the floor? That's bad for tire traction and steering response. Fancy multi-link suspensions, or double-A arm designs, can reduce the arc effect. Such suspensions are often large (gobbling up trunk space or not fitting under the hood along with the engine) and generally are more expensive to design and build. This is where the Lotus and BMW types show their stuff: they know how to a) control wheel tilting/angling, b) tune the bushings to be softer for ride quality motions but firmer for steering inputs, c) and choose a good combination of springs, shocks, and anti-roll bars to work well on streets or tracks... with 1 driver or 1 driver+full load of passengers and a full trunk. Not easy.

mike c.

 

[WowCool]

I think I will just "Steer Clear"

 

[Cobra]

Ever try to take an action picture with a slow digital camera? And ended up missing the action? That's slow/poor response. A car with slow response steering will "lag" your steering wheel inputs for a moment in time, just like a slow camera. For basic highway driving, or slow around-town driving, you'd probably never notice - it doesn't take long for your brain to adapt and learn to compensate by moving the steering wheel a little earlier. However, if you were trying to aim at a precise spot on a curving road, at high speeds (i.e. sports car driving) that lag would drive you nuts. A responsive car turns quickly and is in general more predictable when "having fun" driving.

Lots of things slow steering response in a vehicle. ANY rubber part in the steering system, suspension, and obviously the rubber tires will flex a bit when forces on it change. When you turn the steering wheel, rubber couplings in the steering column may flex, leading to a slight delay between your steering wheel input and the twist/movement of whatever is on the other side of that coupler. The suspension parts of road cars attach via rubber "bushings" to the bolts and other suspension parts; these bushings soften the ride a little and really filter out road vibrations... but they squish a bit when you ask the vehicle to turn... adding delays again. The tire also twists - between the rim and the "contact patch" on the pavement. That's why you find "low profile" tires on sports cars and tires with lots of road isolating rubber between the rim and contact patch on cushy riding vehicles.

Pure race cars pretty much have NO rubber bushings anywhere. They'd rattle your teeth out on all but pool-table smooth roads... but the steering is RIGHT NOW crisp. Cars with worn or by-design soft bushings (prioritizing ride quality over handling) often have magnified steering issues: you make a steering input, the bushings squish or deform, then - being rubber - they rebound and change shape, screwing up your steering input. So besides delaying your inputs, bushings can actually cause minor oscillations in the actual steering angle at the tires. VERY disconcerting when trying to maneuver quickly.

And, as OneFunGenesis posted, any motions the car body makes will detract from the steering a bit. You move the steering wheel, commanding the front wheels to aim differently. Yet as soon as the car begins to respond, the body rolls (leans) instead of yawing (rotating in the direction you want to turn) until the suspension springs & anti-roll bar stiffnesses build up and stop the roll.

Another factor totally unrelated to time delays: the gearing ratio between the steering wheel and the front tires. Some cars, especially large "boats" and pickups, make you turn the steering wheel further to make a normal turn compared to a sports car. It's physically hard to crank the steering wheel a long ways, especially when you're trying to drive fast. Of course the gearing ratio can be too bad the opposite way too; then the steering may be "touchy" as it becomes difficult to actually steer where you want to - the steering wheel inputs become too small to reliably do. Race car drivers are used to this... street car drivers would over-control the vehicle and end up in a ditch. Imagine the gas pedal moving only half an inch... you'd never find the right spot to maintain a desired MPH.

Suspension design can affect steering response too. The idea of a suspension is to allow wheels to move up/down over bumps and dips and remain in contact with the ground. Ideally with the tread FLAT against the ground. This is actually quite hard to do consistently. Hold your right arm straight out from your shoulder and make a fist. Pretend the fist is the tire, your shoulders are the car body. Move your fist up and down and watch the motion. Notice your fist is really moving in a shallow arc? And that the bottom of your fist does not stay parallel to the floor? That's bad for tire traction and steering response. Fancy multi-link suspensions, or double-A arm designs, can reduce the arc effect. Such suspensions are often large (gobbling up trunk space or not fitting under the hood along with the engine) and generally are more expensive to design and build. This is where the Lotus and BMW types show their stuff: they know how to a) control wheel tilting/angling, b) tune the bushings to be softer for ride quality motions but firmer for steering inputs, c) and choose a good combination of springs, shocks, and anti-roll bars to work well on streets or tracks... with 1 driver or 1 driver+full load of passengers and a full trunk. Not easy.

mike c.

Hey dude your explanation is very informative i can say now i completely understand what do we mean by responsive steering. Thanks alot for that great reply

 

[OneFunGenesis]

I don't think that is true of their latest models. Lexus has changed in the last few years, and most models (except maybe ES) now offer F Sport versions that handle quite well. Acura RL is improved also.

I was obviously not talking about the F-Sport. That thing is a beast and I would sell my gf to own that.

 

[Top Gear]

Go test drive a Mini or a Mazda MX-5. Those two are accessible to the world and well known for their awesome responsiveness. Then, if you have time, check out a BMW 128i or BMW 328i. The 128 has crazy-awesome responsiveness. The 328i is also outstanding and is the best balance of comfortable ride (though it is harsh by Toyota Avalon standards) and responsiveness. Then you will have a frame of reference for the Genesis.

Or drive a Genesis Coupe (R-Spec/Track model), which has crazy-awesome responsiveness on par or better than any of those you mentioned

 

[GenesisCaptain]

Or drive a Genesis Coupe (R-Spec/Track model), which has crazy-awesome responsiveness on par or better than any of those you mentioned

Now you got my curiosity. I have never driven the coupe, and I may give it a try. I have lots of miles in the other other cars I mentioned, and the Mini (non-S) is my world standard for responsiveness. It is not the quickest, but it is the most immediate-feeling car I have ever touched. If the Coupe tops the Mini, then they have truly achieved awesomeness. (The Genny Coupe is more than 1,000 lbs. heavier, more than a foot longer wheelbase, almost 3' longer overall; however it does have a 6" wider track to offset some.)

 

[OneFunGenesis]

IMHO, the coupe will NEVER best the mini in handling and responsiveness. The mini's are on rails and the gen coupe just doesn't have that yet.

 

[Top Gear]

Wha?? The mini is just a small car, OneFunGenesis. All small cars have "responsive" steering. The Coupe is a true sports car, and yes, it rides on rails (that's not just the steering but the track-tuned suspension). As I said, make sure the Coupe you drive is an R-Spec or Track, as the Base, Premium and GT have much softer suspension.

 

[OneFunGenesis]

dupe

 

[Sal Collaziano]

dupe

Duplicate?