Consumer Reports - April 2013

[Mark_888]

I'm sure nobody here disputes the fact that Hyundai has major audio problems with the Genesis. However, your point that they are unwilling, or unable, to fix these problems is something I cannot agree with. You bought a car with superior warranty coverage and, yet, now you are telling us that, in your mind, it is meaningless and moot. I'm much more hopeful. Let's hope that this consumer reports coverage wakes Hyundai up a bit and gets them in gear. I don't expect a recall on the audio system, but every customer who has promblem should be cared for.

I never said they are unwilling to fix the problems. As far as I can tell Hyundai has replaced head units at $3,000 a pop without many arguments, so I never said the warranty was meaningless. But if someone is buying a used car and CR wants to advise them on reliability, the audio system warranty is only 3 years or 36K miles (unless an extended warranty is purchased) and obviously the warranty (even for the 10/100 drivetrain warranty) doesn't come into play when CR rates the vehicles for reliability.

If you are saying that CR should take the warranty into account when rating used cars for reliability, that is an interesting point, but might get a little complicated if added to the CR rating system.

Regarding whether Hyundai has the ability to fix it, auto-makers don't manufacture as many parts as people think, and in this case we know that the audio system is made by Harman International.

 

[Vince2]

No one actually "repairs" much these days. Items (assemblies) are exchanged. A roof pod in my 2006 Toyota Tundra carries the built in garage door opening remote (the name escapes me just now) and the button indication leds stopped glowing. The unit still worked (it opened the garage door if you pressed the button) but my warranty was about to elapse and since this device was covered and the buttons are much easier to find with an illuminating led I decided to take it Toyota to repair the leds. Nope "We'll have to change the unit out!" That's right. They replaced the entire unit ( $1,000 list cost plus labor) instead of replacing the burned out leds. I think this is the model for "repairs": if the assemblies are bought whole (i.e. complete) from a supplying company, said company also warranties the item, why would Hyundai (or Toyota) pay a technician (assuming someone was available who could actually diagnose the problem) to trouble shoot and repair said "assemblies"? I live in Las Vegas where there are thousands of slot machines in huge hotels with slot mechanics on staff...no one ever repairs a bad slot machine. They simply switch out a faulty pc board (most common problem) for one that works (Today's slot machines are just low end computers with most of the essential parts on a small pc board.) I attended an electronics class with several wanna be slot mechanics and they joked that the should really be called board changers and not mechanics.

I think if the audio issues hits critical mass (lets hope the Consumer Reports ratings are just that) then Hyundai will have to take a bigger/public profile with this issue. I think that the change of head units from the pre 2013 units is a silent acknowledgement of the reliability problem PLUS that the pre '13 head units aren't exactly cutting edge. It's Hyundai's reputation that's taking a hit.

 

[YEH]

It's not like Hyundai is the one making changes to the audio system, that's on Harmon Kardon (which is the parent company of Lexicon).

If the problem is that widespread and continues to persist, Hyundai would be better off if they went w/ a different audio company as a supplier for the next Genesis, Equus, etc.

Actually, Hyundai's in-house audio system (Dimension) has been getting pretty good reviews on its mainstream models, so it probably wouldn't be too difficult for Hyundai to develop a higher end sound system, but then you'd those who would complain that it's not a "name" audio system.

 

[Mark_888]

If the problem is that widespread and continues to persist, Hyundai would be better off if they went w/ a different audio company as a supplier for the next Genesis, Equus, etc.

I read something about 6-12 months ago where Harmon said they have been selected to supply the audio system for the next generation of Genesis.

 

[Vince2]

Default Re: Consumer Reports - April 2013

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It's not like Hyundai is the one making changes to the audio system, that's on Harmon Kardon (which is the parent company of Lexicon).

If the problem is that widespread and continues to persist, Hyundai would be better off if they went w/ a different audio company as a supplier for the next Genesis, Equus, etc.

Actually, Hyundai's in-house audio system (Dimension) has been getting pretty good reviews on its mainstream models, so it probably wouldn't be too difficult for Hyundai to develop a higher end sound system, but then you'd those who would complain that it's not a "name" audio system

*How do you know that Hyundai isn't requesting/initiating changes in the audio system?


*They should go to another audio company.

*Really? Hyundai owners are name conscious about our automobile audio system! Hyundai owners...laughable. I hadn't heard of Lexicon until I bought this vehicle.

Yeh are you pained by owners complaining about the audio?...Consumer Reports complaints?...or just a WAY interested non owner?

 

[bmbutler]

I'm sure nobody here disputes the fact that Hyundai has major audio problems with the Genesis. However, your point that they are unwilling, or unable, to fix these problems is something I cannot agree with. You bought a car with superior warranty coverage and, yet, now you are telling us that, in your mind, it is meaningless and moot. I'm much more hopeful. Let's hope that this consumer reports coverage wakes Hyundai up a bit and gets them in gear. I don't expect a recall on the audio system, but every customer who has a problem should be cared for.

If you go back and read Hyundai reliability problems and Hyundai's lack of response, you will see this has been going on with this company since they began selling cars here! This is also why I do not believe they will be successful as a brand in the luxury market. Too much negativity assigned to the Hyundai name whether the car is good or not. Will be going elsewhere when lease is up.

 

[Qbedobedoo]

I drive a baseline model 2012 V6 Sedan. No tech or premium..

I absolutely love the audio system - it's more than sufficient for me, the sound is awesome, very crisp (best word I could think of to describe it) and it has never once given me any issues.

 

[homeofstone]

Never had a problem with my 2011 tech pkg 4.6. though I have read a number of post where the sytem freezes, or shows odd messages. As I recall many of the problems happen when using an ipod or other aux. device. I wonder if sometimes the aux. devices have corrupted files or a virus that gets into to Genesis software and somehow causes the problems.

 

[veed]

slight aside - i've never been particularly impressed with Consumer Reports' ability to be objective. altho i've only had mine for ~3 mos i have yet to see/hear anything that makes me regret buying the car.

FWIW, YMMV, standard disclaimers apply, etc etc etc ...

 

[Mark_888]

slight aside - i've never been particularly impressed with Consumer Reports' ability to be objective. altho i've only had mine for ~3 mos i have yet to see/hear anything that makes me regret buying the car.

FWIW, YMMV, standard disclaimers apply, etc etc etc ...

When the Genesis first came out as a 2009 model, it was (subjectively) rated by CR as best in class (entry level luxury, I believe). The only negative thing they said was that the suspension was a bit jittery (and it definitely was in 2009).

The CR reliability ratings are calculated based on subscriber feedback (they send out a form each year to every subscriber asking them to rate various products they own in terms of needed repairs). The returned surveys are read by a machine into a computer to gather the stats. But I don't exactly know about the original point raised, where apparently one "much worse than average" rating on the audio system can drag the whole car down to a "worse than average" used car buy. But I haven't seen the report myself.

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[veed]

sure - all i know is i subscribed for a couple of yrs out of curiosity. it was a waste of $$ IMO ... their recommendations never matched my experience on anything ... ever.

think the best advice is to be an educated buyer - check the audio system before you buy, and get in writing from the dealer that they'll address issues within X time (or just buy the warranty like OFG seems to prefer )

back to work ...

 

[Vince2]

From Mark 888

But I don't exactly know about the original point raised, where apparently one "much worse than average" rating on the audio system can drag the whole car down to a "worse than average" used car buy

There's nothing apparent about the ratings. Certainly not that one (instance or portion of the survey?) can drag down the overall rating. Does Consumer Reports publish their survey's raw data or methodology? Can a reader ferret out or read how many respondents rated the car either positive or negatively and in which area? I imagine that a publication with as much weight and reputation to protect would have a fairly nuanced approach to a survey and it would be rather easy to discover disgruntled owners who's entire aim is simply to hurt the brand. This sounds a little like blaming the messenger. Listen I like this car. A lot...but there are problems.

From veed

... their recommendations never matched my experience on anything

Really now that's a bit of an over statement! Of course I don't know how many times you took their recommendations to heart and were subsequently disappointed but Consumer Reports gets everything wrong?

 

[veed]

From veed

Really now that's a bit of an over statement! Of course I don't know how many times you took their recommendations to heart and were subsequently disappointed but Consumer Reports gets everything wrong?

i don't find them reliable. "wrong" is subjective; it didn't work for me. if you find them useful /trustworthy, good on you.

 

[Mark_888]

There's nothing apparent about the ratings. Certainly not that one (instance or portion of the survey?) can drag down the overall rating. Does Consumer Reports publish their survey's raw data or methodology? Can a reader ferret out or read how many respondents rated the car either positive or negatively and in which area? I imagine that a publication with as much weight and reputation to protect would have a fairly nuanced approach to a survey and it would be rather easy to discover disgruntled owners who's entire aim is simply to hurt the brand. This sounds a little like blaming the messenger. Listen I like this car. A lot...but there are problems.

I will have to admit that I read you post about 5 times and still don't understand what you are saying. I did not criticize CR.

I don't know the CR formula for rating the reliability of used cars. I doubt that they are biased and I have no reason to question them. Maybe there is a flaw in their reliability ratings, but I don't have any evidence to claim that. If someone wanted to know why a single "much worse than average" rating for audio would drag down the whole overall rating, they should contact CR. Personally, I don't really care.

Once when I gave performance ratings to my employees, I had someone get upset that I only gave them an "above average" rating, instead of "outstanding." Some people think that average people can be rated "above average" and above average people should automatically be rated as "outstanding." But "above average" means better than the average person doing the same or similar job at the same company, and for each person rated above average there should usually be another person who is "below average."

So in the case of the Genesis, even though it is overall a reliable car in most all respects, it can still have below average reliability if most other cars of the same model year have better reliability. Cars are a lot more reliable now than in years past, and bar keeps getting raised each year.

 

[Mark_888]

i don't find them reliable. "wrong" is subjective; it didn't work for me. if you find them useful /trustworthy, good on you.

There are two different kinds of ratings in CR.

One is where the rate new products. The ratings are based on certain criteria that may be different than my criteria, so I always check to see how CR weighted the criteria that determined the overall ratings (which they usually do a good job of explaining). The choice of which CR criteria counts the most in the overall rating is subjective on their part, but otherwise the ratings are at least somewhat "useful" in most other respects if you see how they rate each individual category (fuel economy, comfort, power, breaking, etc).

The other kind of CR rating is reliability statistics (I explained earlier how they get these from subscriber surveys). I have absolutely no reason to doubt the objectivity of the stats CR publishes for reliability for each category of the vehicle (engine, transmission, audio, etc). That doesn't mean they are perfect, since stats "could be" sabotaged by competitors who are also CR subscribers. But since we all know the Genesis audio has had issues, doesn't sound like (no pun intended) that was the case here.

 

[Platgen]

A comment on the below average rating for the 2012 Genesis from Consumer Reports. Consumer Reports compares the reliability of a car to other cars of the same year. Therefore, even though there is only one much below average circle for the 2012 Genesis, many other 2012 cars do not have any "much below average" rating. If a 2009 Genesis had only one "much below average" circle, then a 2009 Genesis would likely have an overall rating of much better than average. The rationale behind the highly rated 2009 Genesis in this example is that many 2009 cars have several weak spots.

Consumer Reports reliability ratings do not take warranty coverage into effect. However, a reader may choose to give a lower rating to a problem if the owner had to pay for a repair instead of the problem being covered for free under warranty.

It would be helpful if the Consumer Reports survey separated the ratings based on the three types of radios that had been available for the Genesis. However, this would be difficult. Consumer Reports subscription online does supply more detailed information than the printed magazine.