Depreciation

[carguy75]

This continued myth about Genesis allegedly having poor resale value is completely baseless, and from the few posts above, seems to be derived based almost exclusively on falsely projecting personal feelings or perception toward the Hyundai parent brand and how much someone feels that the brand is personally worth.

I've said it time and again, but Genesis's resale values are some of the best among luxury cars second only to Lexus. For example, here's the most recent measurement from J.D. Power based on 3-year values.

2020 U.S. Resale Value Awards

TROY, Mich.: 4 Nov. 2020 — The J.D. Power 2020 U.S. Resale Value Awards, recognizing the best resale value across 25 model-level vehicle segments following three years of ownership, were announced today. This is the third year J.D. Power has given these awards, which are based transaction data...

www.jdpower.com

2017 G90 had the highest resale value in its segment, and the G80 was second only to the Lexus GS.

Obviously, luxury brands won't hold their values as well as regular brands. If anyone is buying this segment of cars with the intention of having them retain their value, they're in the wrong segment. Go buy a Camry.

I agree with you that the Genesis brand holds its value in par with other luxury brands outside of Lexus. I feel that the Genesis brand is more reliable than many BMW and Audi models which also lose value at a very high rate; if not more so than Genesis.

My point is that Genesis can build a strong reputation for reliability and be on par with Lexus as a reliable luxury car that gives mostly trouble free ownership, hence become more desirable as second hand cars. A few hiccups with the 2.0T engine is keeping the resale value lower than what this brand deserves I believe, however it seems that the message that Genesis are built well has already been made by JD power; so in a few years the Genesis brand will be what it should be and have the reputation that it deserves.

Most luxury cars has terrible resell values due to unreliability outside the warranty period and excessive repair cost over normal brands which lowers the demand for them by many used car shoppers. Lexus has proven itself an exception to the rule and Genesis is as well it seem by the JD power ranking.

However, for whatever reason I can still buy a used low mileage three year old Genesis model for about half the price as a new one. BMW and Audi models can be found cheap as well after a few year of age with low miles. Not so much with a Lexus GS or any Lexus model in my area. Lexus only lose half the value when over 100k miles or about 5 years on a low mileage one.

Prime examples

2017 Genesis models

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2017 Lexus models

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2017 BMW models

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[Trixie86]

I agree with you that the Genesis brand holds its value in par with other luxury brands outside of Lexus. I feel that the Genesis brand is more reliable than many BMW and Audi models which also lose value at a very high rate; if not more so than Genesis.

My point is that Genesis can build a strong reputation for reliability and be on par with Lexus as a reliable luxury car that gives mostly trouble free ownership, hence become more desirable as second hand cars. A few hiccups with the 2.0T engine is keeping the resale value lower than what this brand deserves I believe, however it seems that the message that Genesis are built well has already been made by JD power; so in a few years the Genesis brand will be what it should be and have the reputation that it deserves.

Most luxury cars has terrible resell values due to unreliability outside the warranty period and excessive repair cost over normal brands. Lexus has proven itself an exception to the rule and Genesis is as well it seem by the JD power ranking.

However, for what ever reason I still buy a used low mileage three year old Genesis model for about half the price as a new one. Not so much with a Lexus GS.

It's nice to have the best warranty in the business.

 

[Backslack]

I agree with you that the Genesis brand holds its value in par with other luxury brands outside of Lexus. I feel that the Genesis brand is more reliable than many BMW and Audi models which also lose value at a very high rate; if not more so than Genesis.

My point is that Genesis can build a strong reputation for reliability and be on par with Lexus as a reliable luxury car that gives mostly trouble free ownership, hence become more desirable as second hand cars. A few hiccups with the 2.0T engine is keeping the resale value lower than what this brand deserves I believe, however it seems that the message that Genesis are built well has already been made by JD power; so in a few years the Genesis brand will be what it should be and have the reputation that it deserves.

Most luxury cars has terrible resell values due to unreliability outside the warranty period and excessive repair cost over normal brands which lowers the demand for them by many used car shoppers. Lexus has proven itself an exception to the rule and Genesis is as well it seem by the JD power ranking.

However, for whatever reason I can still buy a used low mileage three year old Genesis model for about half the price as a new one. BMW and Audi models can be found cheap as well after a few year of age with low miles. Not so much with a Lexus GS or any Lexus model in my area. Lexus only lose half the value when over 100k miles or about 5 years on a low mileage one.

The 2.0T is irrelevant because the only model that has it is the G70, which has only been out since 2019. The G70 itself has never had any manufacturing issues with the 2.0T because it was built in South Korea, not the Alabama plant where the issues took place. The engine itself is very robust and used in the Veloster N, also built in South Korea. As far as I'm concerned, it's got nilch to do with Genesis's resale values, which remain generally excellent.

Resale value has many factors outside of reliability. Average maintenance cost, customization similarities, mechanical changes over the generation, how much the lease was subsidized prior to entering the used market, how many cars are available in the used market, and so on. The Jeep Wrangler is by no means reliable, but it has the highest resale value of almost any SUV.

Lexus has good resale value primarily because most of their lineup is very old and shares major components with much cheaper Toyotas. ES's and RX's are almost mechanically identical to the Camry/Avalon and Highlander, respectively. The GX and Land Cruiser date back to the 2000's mechanically. They also don't incentive their leases that much like the Germans. Even then, not all Lexus's hold their resale value the same. The LS for instance has less than stellar resale value. Notice how the 2017 model didn't make the JD Power list, yet the G90 did.

I can see why Genesis would hold its value compared to others. Their leases aren't as heavily subsidized as the Germans or Infiniti, their vehicles don't have a-la-carte options making them all very similar in their packaging, and maintenance costs are lower. Having decent reliability helps, but it's not the end-all-be-all. Reliability itself is not a consistently measurable metric like the other factors that go into depreciation.

 

[Backslack]

It's nice to have the best warranty in the business.

Unfortunately doesn't translate to the second owner unless you buy CPO. Still, even the chopped-off warranty is better than the measly 4 years that the Germans offer.

 

[Bill K]

Genesis is not the best car to buy if you trade cars every three or so years. I'm driving a 2013 Genesis, with 30,000 miles, in pristine shape. I might start looking for a new G80 at the end of 2023...(Don't think that I can quite swing a G90)

 

[mikemu30]

It's nice to have the best warranty in the business.

Until you try to make a claim

 

[Trixie86]

Until you try to make a claim

Bad experience?

 

[carguy75]

The 2.0T is irrelevant because the only model that has it is the G70, which has only been out since 2019. The G70 itself has never had any manufacturing issues with the 2.0T because it was built in South Korea, not the Alabama plant where the issues took place. The engine itself is very robust and used in the Veloster N, also built in South Korea. As far as I'm concerned, it's got nilch to do with Genesis's resale values, which remain generally excellent.

Resale value has many factors outside of reliability. Average maintenance cost, customization similarities, mechanical changes over the generation, how much the lease was subsidized prior to entering the used market, how many cars are available in the used market, and so on. The Jeep Wrangler is by no means reliable, but it has the highest resale value of almost any SUV.

Lexus has good resale value primarily because most of their lineup is very old and shares major components with much cheaper Toyotas. ES's and RX's are almost mechanically identical to the Camry/Avalon and Highlander, respectively. The GX and Land Cruiser date back to the 2000's mechanically. They also don't incentive their leases that much like the Germans. Even then, not all Lexus's hold their resale value the same. The LS for instance has less than stellar resale value. Notice how the 2017 model didn't make the JD Power list, yet the G90 did.

I can see why Genesis would hold its value compared to others. Their leases aren't as heavily subsidized as the Germans or Infiniti, their vehicles don't have a-la-carte options making them all very similar in their packaging, and maintenance costs are lower. Having decent reliability helps, but it's not the end-all-be-all. Reliability itself is not a consistently measurable metric like the other factors that go into depreciation.

I agree that consumer demand is based on various factors specific to many vehicles such as performance, styling, rarity that affects a vehicle desirability in the used car market not related solely to engine reliability.

A person looking for a used performance car like Mustang will not be attracted to a Toyota Camry no matter how reliable Toyota may be. Hence why used Jeeps still command a decent price in the used market even if they are not very reliable compared to a Toyota product. Off road owners just love Jeeps for its rugged durability and overall fun factor.

The JD power list do not always translate to real world buying experience in all areas. As per my posting, the fully loaded 2017 G90 Ultimate sells much cheaper than the 2017 LS with similar features and mileage. Both cars cost about $70-80k new, with the G90 being a tad cheaper.

JD Power list or not; the G90 still sells a lot cheaper than the LS460 in my area, because Lexus still has a better reputation overall than Genesis for making a very reliable luxury ride that will run without many repair visits. The Lexus badge still carries more weight than a Genesis which also influence buyers looking for prestige over practicality. However, the G90 lower prices will attract more buyer based on the good press from publications like JD Power that is helping the Genesis brand gain traction as a true luxury car that is also reliable to own outside of the warranty period. Lexus biggest selling point over other luxury makes is its reliability in my opinion. Genesis is right on its heels.

The 2.0T issue matters to Genesis because many consumers will equate a defective engine from one model in a brand with the other engines as well. If Hyundai made a defective engine in one model, will the same level of quality migrate to others engine produced by the company in its various brands will be the question many consumers may ask when looking for a car out of warranty, hence the lowered demand that affects deprecation of the brand.

Luckily for Genesis, the 2.0T engine issue has been addressed and only appeared on older 2011-2016 models so it stigma is becoming an issue that Hyundai can put behind it by keeping up the good work on the latest models.

 

[Backslack]

The JD power list do not always translate to real world buying experience in all areas. As per my posting, the fully loaded 2017 G90 Ultimate sells much cheaper than the 2017 LS with similar features and mileage. Both cars cost about $70-80k new, with the G90 being a tad cheaper.

JD Power list or not; the G90 still sells a lot cheaper than the LS460 in my area, because Lexus still has a better reputation overall than Genesis for making a very reliable luxury ride that will run without many repair visits. The Lexus badge still carries more weight than a Genesis which also influence buyers looking for prestige over practicality. However, the G90 lower prices will attract more buyer based on the good press from publications like JD Power that is helping the Genesis brand gain traction as a true luxury car that is also reliable to own outside of the warranty period. Lexus biggest selling point over other luxury makes is its reliability in my opinion. Genesis is right on its heels.

The 2.0T issue matters to Genesis because many consumers will equate a defective engine from one model in a brand with the other engines as well. If Hyundai made a defective engine in one model, will the same level of quality migrate to others engine produced by the company in its various brands will be the question many consumers may ask when looking for a car out of warranty, hence the lowered demand that affects deprecation of the brand.

Luckily for Genesis, the 2.0T engine issue has been addressed and only appeared on older 2011-2016 models so it stigma is becoming an issue that Hyundai can put behind it by keeping up the good work on the latest models.

Sorry, not buying it. The JD Power list is not some hypothetical or simulation that you can wave off with some personal anecdotes and a couple of links to individual vehicles. The list uses hundreds of thousands of data points (to quote the article: "592,000 transactions with an average of 2,200 data points assessed on each vehicle"), which far surpass your meager examples. The 2017 G90 has better resale value as of 2020 than the 2017 Lexus LS. This is not up for debate.

Your explanation of the 2.0T makes zero sense. According to your logic, a Jeep product should have terrible resale value because it's in the same family of products as Maserati under FCA, even though they mechanically have almost nothing in common. And yet, Jeeps hold their value very well.

Again, these are your biases at play. You simply have a hard time accepting that Genesis holds their value, even compared to Lexus. Without the facts to back up your claim, your presumptions are based on nothing more than the personal biases I mentioned before.

 

[carguy75]

Sorry, not buying it. The JD Power list is not some hypothetical or simulation that you can wave off with some personal anecdotes and a couple of links to individual vehicles. The list uses hundreds of thousands of data points (to quote the article: "592,000 transactions with an average of 2,200 data points assessed on each vehicle"), which far surpass your meager examples. The 2017 G90 has better resale value as of 2020 than the 2017 Lexus LS. This is not up for debate.

Your explanation of the 2.0T makes zero sense. According to your logic, a Jeep product should have terrible resale value because it's in the same family of products as Maserati under FCA, even though they mechanically have almost nothing in common. And yet, Jeeps hold their value very well.

Again, these are your biases at play. You simply have a hard time accepting that Genesis holds their value, even compared to Lexus. Without the facts to back up your claim, your presumptions are based on nothing more than the personal biases I mentioned before.

This is a forum, everything is up for debate.

Same here. I am not buying your opinion about Lexus having a worst resale value to Genesis. I explained that Jeeps resale value is based on the vehicle popularity formed on recreation desire not reliability. I cannot help that you seem to be taking this topic personally, but when a company gets the reputation for selling engines that lock-up on you out of the blue due to poor quality control issues; it does affect a brand desirability until it proves itself to be better. Hyundai has been doing better so it may not be an issue for most consumers anymore.

Remember, Hyundai was never really known for putting out high quality products until recently. However, I must admit that many people may not draw a correlation to Genesis and Hyundai products so the 2.0t engine issue may not be a factor for most when it comes to buying a Genesis. I personally had that concern until I did some research and discovered the Hyundai designed 5.0 engine to be very dependable after 2013.

I own a Genesis myself, but I know that it is not a car to sale for a strong resale price compared to what it costed when new. However, I love my car so its non-stellar resale value is not that big of deal to me since I bought it at a discount used due to its high rate of depreciation.

I only posted what the brands are actually selling for in my area. Sometimes real world data trumps data points of what it should be based on statistical data. Car prices do vary by region and local demand. Lexus is popular in my area and hold its value better than other luxury makes including Genesis.

I would never buy a used FCA product based on the horrid reviews, so I would never buy a used Jeep product based on reliability or lack of. Nor would I purchase a used BMW for the same exact reason.

However, I agree that reliability is not a factor to many people buying used cars. Some people just buy what they like or can afford without doing any research on the car before they purchase it. I do a lot of research before I buy a car, and incorrectly think most other people do the same as well.

Note: I still think that Genesis is best used car deal of any luxury make like I demonstrated in the used car listing post. Hell, I am actually considering buying the 2017 G90 Ultimate for $30k in my post.

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[Backslack]

It sounds personal because all of your claims are based on your personal opinion, rather than actual data. Therefore, I have no choice but to refer to you specifically, as you are the sole source of your claims. There's nothing wrong with having opinions and generalizations, but they will never have the same weight of actual statistical data.

The G90 having better resale than the Lexus isn't my opinion, it's what the collected sales data literally shows. Your example of the 2.0t is your opinion, because it asserts a (however questionable) causation, but the 2017 G90 having the best resale value in its class is a fact- the result of numerical data collection of transactions that have already taken place. Personal anecdotes are nothing compared to the collected sales data. As recent real life events have shown, I'm well aware that some people don't want to accept the facts and think that everything is "up for debate" unless it validates their opinion, no matter how unfounded on actual facts that opinion may be.

What you basically admitted is that you didn't have a high personal opinion of Hyundai, which translates to Genesis (as you said in the last page, you wouldn't have bought your Genesis if it was over $55k, because it was made by Hyundai), and thus they have poor resale value. You are projecting your personal biases and alleging them as fact. Unless you have a better factual source or a different way of interpreting the data collection method, there's nothing substantial to back up your claims.

Also, the logical basis don't make much sense. You claim that Genesis has poor resale value (which is false, but that's beside the point) because Hyundai made some allegedly crappy engines (that never went into any Genesis product until the G70). You then proceed to claim that people don't buy cars like Jeeps for reliability, yet they do for Genesis despite your contradicting claim that these people don't believe Genesis is reliable. Which is it? Either way, you will need something more substantial than "I think" to support these claims.

 

[carguy75]

It sounds personal because all of your claims are based on your personal opinion, rather than actual data. Therefore, I have no choice but to refer to you specifically, as you are the sole source of your claims. There's nothing wrong with having opinions and generalizations, but they will never have the same weight of actual statistical data.

The G90 having better resale than the Lexus isn't my opinion, it's what the collected sales data literally shows. Your example of the 2.0t is your opinion, because it asserts a (however questionable) causation, but the 2017 G90 having the best resale value in its class is a fact- the result of numerical data collection of transactions that have already taken place. Personal anecdotes are nothing compared to the collected sales data. As recent real life events have shown, I'm well aware that some people don't want to accept the facts and think that everything is "up for debate" unless it validates their opinion, no matter how unfounded on actual facts that opinion may be.

What you basically admitted is that you didn't have a high personal opinion of Hyundai, which translates to Genesis (as you said in the last page, you wouldn't have bought your Genesis if it was over $55k, because it was made by Hyundai), and thus they have poor resale value. You are projecting your personal biases and alleging them as fact. Unless you have a better factual source or a different way of interpreting the data collection method, there's nothing substantial to back up your claims.

Also, the logical basis don't make much sense. You claim that Genesis has poor resale value (which is false, but that's beside the point) because Hyundai made some allegedly crappy engines (that never went into any Genesis product until the G70). You then proceed to claim that people don't buy cars like Jeeps for reliability, yet they do for Genesis despite your contradicting claim that these people don't believe Genesis is reliable. Which is it? Either way, you will need something more substantial than "I think" to support these claims.

What?

Read my posts again. I admit my posts contains personal bias like most posts made on a forum, however you just glazed over my points and made your own generalization that I dislike Hyundai or that I believe that reliablity is the only reason why every person buys a car. I do believe many people take reliability and cost of ownership into consideration when buying used cars, but not all.

I will not buy Genesis or any other new car make due to deprecation since I swap cars about every three or four years. Even Lexus which I favor over most other luxury makes depreciates in value as well. Most cars loses value over time except for a few that gain value as they age based on various reasons from rarity to desirability for whatever reason that increase their demand.

Jeeps has always been a popular brand based on their function and off road reputation; so Jeep resale values is based more on that. Furthermore, not all Jeep products has good resell value. The Wrangler does has high resale value for its class for the reason I addressed, but not a Grand Cherokee or Compass which depreciates poorly based off their reliability issues I believe. However, even Jeep Wrangler prices deprecates as well; it just has more demand that help its resell value over other Jeep models.

I actually like Hyundai products. Reliable and a great value. My next car will be a Hyundai(Genesis) product most likely. I do not have any delusions that my current 2015 Genesis will be worth much when I do trade up, because I am realist who have owned many brand of cars over the years purchased new and used. Genesis is not a brand to buy new if you like to sell or trade after a few years. Waste of capital due to the diminished return from the cost of a new purchase no matter what JD power states.

You should focus less on what JD Power predicts and look on Auto Trader at actually used car prices in your area. Genesis still goes for cheap even with low miles compared to some other luxury cars with similar mileage and options. However, that could change in the future.

 

[Backslack]

You should focus less on what JD Power predicts

Times like this make me wish this board had a proper facepalm emoji.

It's obvious that no matter what I tell you or what the facts are, you will continue sticking to your own unsubstantiated presumptions. So be it.

 

[carguy75]

Times like this make me wish this board had a proper facepalm emoji.

It's obvious that no matter what I tell you or what the facts are, you will continue sticking to your own unsubstantiated presumptions. So be it.

Again look at what the cars are actually selling for in real time on dealer lots. Nuff said. I posted actual used car listings of both 2017 Lexus and 2017 Genesis models. Used Lexus models are selling for more.

I am done participating in a pointless argument. You can easily look up used car prices on both Lexus and Genesis in your area to see the truth. When you try to trade it your Genesis make sure to bring the JD Power article with you to argue that the car is worth more than the crap price they will offer you for it.

 

[Backslack]

I will not buy Genesis or any other new car make due to deprecation since I swap cars about every three or four years. Even Lexus which I favor over most other luxury makes depreciates in value as well. Most cars loses value over time except for a few that gain value as they age based on various reasons from rarity to desirability for whatever reason that increase their demand.

lol, that's definitely not what you said before. You clearly did not have a high opinion of Hyundai/Genesis as a brand.

However, I really do not think I would have bought it new for $55k over other luxury brands before I owned it since it is made by Hyundai.

 

[Backslack]

Again look at what the cars are actually selling for in real time on dealer lots. Nuff said. I posted actual used car listings of both 2017 Lexus and 2017 Genesis models. Used Lexus models are selling for more.

I am done participating in a pointless argument. You can easily look up used car prices on both Lexus and Genesis in your area to see the truth. When you try to trade it your Genesis make sure to bring the JD Power article with you to argue that the car worth more than the crap price they will offer you for it.

It's a pointless argument because you aren't using any facts to support your claim, going against actual facts as presented in the JD Power measurement (not prediction, no matter how badly you want to pretend that it is). Indeed, I'm getting tired of your unsubstantiated claims that you keep changing by moving the goalpost every time.

At the end of the day, you have absolutely nothing to prove that Genesis has poor resale value as you initially claimed outside of your personal biases and anecdotes. Show me something substantial like the JD Power measurement to back up your claim, and we will have much more to work with to foster a more constructive discussion.

 

[carguy75]

lol, that's definitely not what you said before. You clearly did not have a high opinion of Hyundai/Genesis as a brand.

Yes, I did not originally think that the Genesis was a true luxury car until I actually test drove and owned one myself. My current 2015 Genesis has impressed me so far that I would actually spend a bit more money on my next Genesis model. Not a new one, but maybe a used one a little newer.

 

[Lgb0250]

Some real world numbers Used Lexus LS 460s for Sale: Buy Online + Home Delivery | Vroom

 

[carguy75]

Times like this make me wish this board had a proper facepalm emoji.

It's obvious that no matter what I tell you or what the facts are, you will continue sticking to your own unsubstantiated presumptions. So be it.

Per JD power own website. It resale ratings are "expected" resell values based on information it gathers on previous models performance. Hence why I call it an "prediction".

Car Ratings and Awards | J.D. Power Awards and Ratings

See the best-rated cars of 2021 Get real car insights from real owners. J.D. Power has the world's most trusted consumer ratings.

www.jdpower.com

Note: Your beloved JD power gave the crown to Lexus in 2017 and 2020 for best resale in many categories.

2017 Resale Awards and Ratings | J.D. Power

The 2017 Resale ratings and awards for cars, trucks, and SUVs from verified owners. J.D. Power has the world's most trusted consumer ratings.

www.jdpower.com

2020 Resale Awards and Ratings | J.D. Power

The 2020 Resale ratings and awards for cars, trucks, and SUVs from verified owners. J.D. Power has the world's most trusted consumer ratings.

www.jdpower.com

However, I admit that was wrong about the 2.0T engine issue keeping Hyundai/KIA resale values low since the KIA Optima is on the JD Power best resale list in both 2017 and 2020.

 

[carguy75]

Some real world numbers Used Lexus LS 460s for Sale: Buy Online + Home Delivery | Vroom

The G90 resale value is less compared to similar a year LS460 in your link, but the G80 sport resale value seems to be very good compared to a similar Lexus GS350 and even Genesis own G90 models.

Vroom does not seem to have many LS460 models on hand compared to having many available G90 models.