• Car enthusiast? Join us on Cars Connected! iOS | Android | Desktop
  • Hint: Use a descriptive title for your new message
    If you're looking for help and want to draw people in who can assist you, use a descriptive subject title when posting your message. In other words, "I need help with my car" could be about anything and can easily be overlooked by people who can help. However, "I need help with my transmission" will draw interest from people who can help with a transmission specific issue. Be as descriptive as you can. Please also post in the appropriate forum. The "Lounge" is for introducing yourself. If you need help with your G70, please post in the G70 section - and so on... This message can be closed by clicking the X in the top right corner.

Does Hyundai mind K&N Filters?

SoCalGen

Been here awhile...
Joined
Sep 27, 2014
Messages
244
Reaction score
2
Points
18
Location
Los Angeles
If my engine blows up before 100k miles will the service department give me any hassles about having a K&N drop in filter? I know K&N explicitly states use of their filter wont void a warranty and they go on to say they will deal with service departments directly who claim it does. But has anyone here had any real world experience with it?

I installed mine last night and stuck the K&N logo sticker on the air box. In the past they used to give you a sticker that said "Stop! This vehicle is equipped with a reusable air filter" or something like that but mine didn't come with one so I just used the regular sticker.
 
So far they haven't even questioned me about it.
 
They cannot void your warranty unless they can definitively prove the aftermarket part caused the issue.

http://www.dummies.com/how-to/content/keeping-your-mods-warranty-intact.html

Keeping Your Mod's Warranty Intact
You'll often hear this myth regarding hacking or modding your car: it automatically cancels your warranty. Don't believe it as gospel. Sure, changing the windshield wiper blades can't cause the transmission to break, but your warranty won't allow you to do whatever you want to your car.

Warranty requirements
When it comes to new car warranties, automotive owners and enthusiasts have a very important lobbying body on their side, namely SEMA (the Specialty Equipment Market Association). SEMA represents the aftermarket manufacturers, wholesalers, retailers, and distributors in North America. Because this association of aftermarket parts suppliers has a vested interest in the continued sale of aftermarket parts, it has helped to keep new car manufacturers in check by successfully lobbying for legislation that prevents new car dealership service providers from denying warranty coverage, for example in a seized motor, because you chose to use those snazzy aftermarket carbon fiber windshield wipers instead of the OEM (Original Equipment Manufacturer) parts sold through their parts/service departments.

Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act
The relevant legislation here, the Magnuson-Moss Warranty - Federal Trade Commission Improvement Act of 1975, protects consumers from being wrongfully denied warranty coverage by new car dealers.

The Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act states, in part, in Title 15, United States Code, Section 2302, subdivision (c):
No warrantor of a consumer product may condition his written or implied warranty of such product on the consumer's using, in connection with such product, any article or service (other than article or service provided without charge under the terms of the warranty) which is identified by brand, trade, or corporate name; except that the prohibition of this subsection may be waived by the [Federal Trade] Commission if —

(1) the warrantor satisfies the Commission that the warranted product will function properly only if the article or service so identified is used in connection with the warranted product, and

(2) the Commission finds that such a waiver is in the public interest. The Commission shall identify in the Federal Register, and permit public comment on, all applications for waiver of the prohibition of this subsection, and shall publish in the Federal Register its disposition of any such application, including the reasons therefore.

Under this federal statute, a manufacturer who issues a warranty on your motor vehicle is prohibited from requiring you to use a service or maintenance item, unless such item is provided, free of charge, under your warranty or unless the Federal Trade Commission (FTC) waives this prohibition against the manufacturer.

Further, under the act, aftermarket equipment that improves performance does not automatically void a vehicle manufacturer's original warranty, unless the warranty clearly states the addition of aftermarket equipment automatically voids your vehicle's warranty, or if it can be proven that the aftermarket device is the direct cause of the failure.

Specifically, the rules and regulations adopted by the FTC to govern the interpretation and enforcement of the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act are set forth in the Code of Federal Regulations, Title 16 - Commercial Practices, Chapter I - Federal Trade Commission, Subchapter G - Rules, Regulations, Statements and Interpretations under the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act, Part 700 - Interpretations under the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act. Contained within these rules and regulations is Section 700.10, which states:
No warrantor may condition the continued validity of a warranty on the use of only authorized repair service and/or authorized replacement parts for non-warranty service and maintenance. For example, provisions such as, "This warranty is void if service is performed by anyone other than an authorized 'ABC' dealer and all replacement parts must be genuine 'ABC' parts," and the like, are prohibited where the service or parts are not covered by the warranty. These provisions violate the Act in two ways. First, they violate the section 102(c) ban against tying arrangements. Second, such provisions are deceptive under section 110 of the Act, because a warrantor cannot, as a matter of law, avoid liability under a written warranty where a defect is unrelated to the use by a consumer of "unauthorized" articles or service. This does not preclude a warrantor from expressly excluding liability for defects or damage caused by such "unauthorized" articles or service; nor does it preclude the warrantor from denying liability where the warrantor can demonstrate that the defect or damage was so caused.

Under the Magnuson-Moss Act, a dealer must prove, not just vocalize, that aftermarket equipment caused the need for repairs before it can deny warranty coverage. If the dealer cannot prove such a claim — or it proffers a questionable explanation — it is your legal right to demand compliance with the warranty. The Federal Trade Commission administers the Magnuson-Moss Act and monitors compliance with warranty law.

That being said, if you choose to modify your car, and suddenly the fancy new electronic control boxes that you added to your car make it run rough, not start when cold, or buck like a bronco, the dealer can and will charge a diagnostic fee to find out what is wrong with your car. If it turns out that your modifications are the cause of the problem, the dealer has every right not only to charge you for the diagnosis and repair, but to also void the portion of the warranty that has been compromised by the use of those aftermarket parts. Likewise, a dealer may refuse to service your car if it is adorned with aftermarket parts to the extent that its technicians cannot reasonably be expected to diagnose what is wrong with your car. As an example, all cars manufactured after 1994 are equipped with OBDII (On Board Diagnostics II) ports that dealers use to read engine diagnostic codes for everything from an engine vacuum leak to a malfunctioning emissions system. If your chosen modification has compromised the dealer service center's ability to scan for these codes (aftermarket ECUs generally do not support OBDII), then there is a strong probability that the dealer service center will

Deny warranty coverage
Refuse to service the car
Note with your factory field representative for your region/district that your car has been "modified"
Your car's manufacturer notes are your car's "permanent record." Above all else, avoid compromising these notes. This is nearly always connected with your vehicles' VIN (Vehicle Identification Number) and will

Ensure that your car will not have its warranty honored at any dealer service center in your area.
Dramatically reduce the resale and/or trade-in value of your car.
Event participation
Some recent controversy surrounds car manufacturers' monitoring of SCCA (Sports Car Club of America) and NHRA (National Hot Rod Association) events and noting license plates and VINs as a justification for denying warranty coverage and either voiding out the warranty, or placing it on "restricted" status.

The legality of these tactics by automobile manufacturers, in particular where the car is marketed with SCCA membership or literature or advertised in race-modified form, is questionable. To protect yourself, be aware of this trend and take the appropriate precautions in listing critical identifying information when participating in regional autocrosses, tracks days, and drag races.

If you believe that your warranty has been wrongly canceled or placed on restriction either because of modifications made to your car, or because of your membership in, affiliation with, or participating in sanctioned club events or gatherings, consult with an attorney and use SEMA as a resource to fight the denial of coverage.

When it comes to legality and warranty concerns, neither proceed based solely on slick advertising and marketing by parts manufacturers and resellers, nor allow yourself to be cowed into paranoia. Information is power, and knowing your rights and obligations is the foundation to any thoughtfully modified car.
 
It is true that if the transmission blows up, they can't blame the engine air filter, but if something goes wrong with the engine then things get more complicated, depending on what the problem is.

If a warranty claim is made for an engine problem, they could initially deny the claim based on the K&N filter. Hyundai has issued a TSB about these type of air filters and they do not conform to specs. Whether or not a warranty claim denial would withstand a legal challenge, or an arbitration panel, is another question. They don't have to prove that the K&N filter caused your specific problem (which is probably impossible), just that it could cause a problem like you had in some cases based on expert witness testimony.

I would recommend using the OEM air filter.
 
It is true that if the transmission blows up, they can't blame the engine air filter, but if something goes wrong with the engine then things get more complicated, depending on what the problem is.

If a warranty claim is made for an engine problem, they could initially deny the claim based on the K&N filter. Hyundai has issued a TSB about these type of air filters and they do not conform to specs. Whether or not a warranty claim denial would withstand a legal challenge, or an arbitration panel, is another question. They don't have to prove that the K&N filter caused your specific problem (which is probably impossible), just that it could cause a problem like you had in some cases based on expert witness testimony.

I would recommend using the OEM air filter.



I think I'm going to keep an OEM filter around. If the engine ever blows I'll have the car towed to my house, remove the filter/sticker and replace with the original. Then have it towed to the dealer. Seems like a good way to avoid a potential headache.

I once bought a used Ford Taurus (cause I was stupid and in desperate need of a car) not even a week after purchasing it while on my lunch break pulling into a parking lot I heard a loud pop then the engine idled very rough and had virtually no power. I limped it home and to the dealership. The Ford dealer tore the engine apart, determined that there was a broken rod. Then they tried to say that I OVER-REVVED the engine and that's why it broke and the service contract I purchased wouldn't cover it. I said "how do you over rev an engine that's computer controlled and with an automatic transmission?" and they didn't really have an answer for me. Long story short they ended up fixing it after I wrote a nasty e-mail to Ford headquarters and upon further investigation it was determined a carbon buildup in the engine caused the problem. Not me not over revving it. Cost me $0 for the re-build.

Not sure if Hyundai dealers are that scummy but I'd like to avoid another situation like that.
 
It is on the dealer or mfg. to prove that an aftermarket part caused the problem, not the other way around. In 20+ years of using K&N on everything from dirt bikes to race cars, I've never had to argue the point. Ever.
 
I just can't figure out why people want to use a K&N filter (at least the oil wetted ones). I guess it's the desire to "mod." As an engineer that spent years with engines and applying engines to vehicles, I would never use an air filter that did not meet OEM specs.

The Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act is not a defense if you use something on your car that does not meet OEM specs. It just says you don't have to buy service parts from the OEM manufacturer.

If your engine fails, and they find a K&N filter, you may well have tough going. Remember that the only way for more power to be produced is if there is less air restriction------------and that means less filtering unless the filter area is significantly increased.

While a different engine, the fundamentals remain the same for oil wetted filters as shown in this independently run test.


http://www.billswebspace.com/AirFilterTest.htm


In particular, note the statement from the test report:

In 60 minutes the AC Filter accumulated 574gms of dirt and passed only 0.4gms. After only 24 minutes the K&N had accumulated 221gms of dirt but passed 7.0gms. Compared to the AC, the K&N “plugged up” nearly 3 times faster, passed 18 times more dirt and captured 37% less dirt. See the data tables for a complete summary of these comparisons.
 
It is on the dealer or mfg. to prove that an aftermarket part caused the problem, not the other way around. In 20+ years of using K&N on everything from dirt bikes to race cars, I've never had to argue the point. Ever.


No they don't------all "they" need to do is deny the claim. Then you will need to hire a lawyer and find an expert witness ($$$) that will lie about air filtering and its affects on an engine.
 
They can deny all they want, there are plenty of attorney's that will go after this kind of stuff, I've been there and done that over something unrelated.

I'm not here to start another K&N discussion, so for the last time:

They do not filter as well as some other filters, no argument period. They do however, outflow almost anything else. While these tests are scientifically accurate, I don't IMEHO, believe they replicate actual use conditions....

I would guess that the drop in for our cars flows significantly better than the stock filter while it's ultimate filtering ability is slightly less than the stock filter, but you only buy it once. The old give and get. The addition of just a K&N filter and carb or EFI tuning can make a significant difference for some cars (and bikes especially). Even more with exhaust.

Does this translate into any power increase for our cars? With the limited adjustments the stock ECU can make and small flow increase, possibly. BUT, the few HP that might result are also probably within the range of error on any dyno and it's operators. It's hard to consistently repeat say, a 4-5 HP increase.

Unless it's ruined by improper cleaning, an oiled K&N works fine for hundreds of thousands of miles. I had this old Land Cruiser you see..........
I just cleaned my drop in for the first time at 23K (13K on the filter). There was no trace of any dust that I could wipe away downstream of the filter. It appeared as clean as it was when it was installed at 10K. The filter was quite dirty (much more than I expected), with most of the dirt and bugs where the intake air is directed.
That being said, I would not run a K&N filter on a piece of farm machinery that will live in a dust bowl all its life where maximum run hours are the end game.

Now back to our cars. Does this "mod" give anyone a reason to worry about a warranty claim? Very doubtful, unless you somehow screw up installing it or destroy it by cleaning it wrong during the 100K warranty period, which I have definitely seen happen. I'm not planning to keep my car for 100K+ miles. After all, it's not a collectable 'vette or anything...........;)
 
The best filtering that a K&N does is when it is loaded up with bugs and crud. Of course, the performance gain is long gone then.

You mentioned properly oiling the K&N filter. Too little is bad and too much means a fouled MAF sensor. It's not worth the trouble or cost.

Also, unlike carbureted cars, a dirty paper filter does not hurt mpg in a computer controlled fuel injected system-------maybe hp, but not mpg.
______________________________

Help support this site so it can continue supporting you!
 
No they don't------all "they" need to do is deny the claim. Then you will need to hire a lawyer and find an expert witness ($$$) that will lie about air filtering and its affects on an engine.
Correct.
 
Not sure if Hyundai dealers are that scummy but I'd like to avoid another situation like that.
After reading this forum for the last 6 years, I think it would be wise to assume that Hyundai dealers are the same, even if there are exceptions.
 
When I got home last night the garbage man still hadn't came so I grabbed the K&N box with the OEM filter in it back out of the bin. I'll keep it in the garage and if the day ever comes I'll change back to the OEM filter and reverse the flapper door mod before taking it to the dealership. A lot less hassle than dealing with lawyers.
 
I'll stick with fresh WIX filters as needed.
 
In my case, no sticker on air filter box, the 'new' OEM filter always goes back in either car prior to any dealer service.. . :D
 
In my case, no sticker on air filter box, the 'new' OEM filter always goes back in either car prior to any dealer service.. . :D


So what do you gain with using the K&N and all that monkey-business?
 
Yea, I don't know how Hyundai stands on aftermarket filters and their engine warranties but as an engineer that has specifically worked for an intake company in the past and still works in the performance auto market I would really recommend staying away from oiled filters such as K&N they load up on dirt quickly as it sticks in the oil which over time is pulled through the cotton anyway getting the dirt and oil in your engine or your intake tract sensors. As member 427435 was saying the only way to get more power out of your engine is to reduce the pressure drop in your intake which requires a larger filter and/or better piping. So a drop in K&N only allows more air to pass because it allows more of everything to pass initially and then they clog faster as a K&N actually is a smaller filter than you OEM due to the shallow pleats they use in all of their applications.
 
Yea, I don't know how Hyundai stands on aftermarket filters and their engine warranties but as an engineer that has specifically worked for an intake company in the past and still works in the performance auto market I would really recommend staying away from oiled filters such as K&N they load up on dirt quickly as it sticks in the oil which over time is pulled through the cotton anyway getting the dirt and oil in your engine or your intake tract sensors. As member 427435 was saying the only way to get more power out of your engine is to reduce the pressure drop in your intake which requires a larger filter and/or better piping. So a drop in K&N only allows more air to pass because it allows more of everything to pass initially and then they clog faster as a K&N actually is a smaller filter than you OEM due to the shallow pleats they use in all of their applications.


Interesting. Maybe I'll switch back.
 
I'll stick with fresh WIX filters as needed.
I would bet a ton of money that Wix does not manufacture a filter for the Genesis. They either source a cheap version from China, or they source one from Mahle, which is where Hyundai gets theirs (Hyundai does not make them either). So best bet it to get the OEM from a dealer. I believe that Mahle makes the entire oil filter module used on the Genesis.
 
I would bet a ton of money that Wix does not manufacture a filter for the Genesis. They either source a cheap version from China, or they source one from Mahle, which is where Hyundai gets theirs (Hyundai does not make them either). So best bet it to get the OEM from a dealer. I believe that Mahle makes the entire oil filter module used on the Genesis.

I actually do have the dealer change my oil, for a couple of reasons, so for the oil filter, I'm also OEM. For the air filter, well:
http://www.wixfilters.com/about/plantlocations.aspx

I'm still catching up on some of the old threads here about oil filters. Also some discussion here:
http://www.Genesis Coupe.com/general-discussion/111958-aftermarket-oil-filters.html
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2375885
 
Last edited:
Looking to update and upgrade your Genesis luxury sport automobile? Look no further than right here in our own forum store - where orders are shipped immediately!
Back
Top