Electrify America Sucks

[Looney100]

This morning is a perfect example of why we always want to have a backup plan, even it's only a 50kw charger. According to both the website and the app, about half of the EA locations are down. And I'm not talking about half of the chargers at one station, I'm talking all of the chargers at half the stations in the US.

Yup. Backup plans are ALWAYS needed. The broad nature of what you've described sounds more like a payments/networking problem than one with the chargers, themselves.

One of the reasons why Flo can advertise a 98% uptime is because their systems fail open. If the network goes down, drivers can still get a charge - and Flo hopes to capture the transactional data for billing once things are back up.

 

[Bob Foster]

This morning is a perfect example of why we always want to have a backup plan, even it's only a 50kw charger. According to both the website and the app, about half of the EA locations are down. And I'm not talking about half of the chargers at one station, I'm talking all of the chargers at half the stations in the US.

Wow I haven't seen it that bad, but I can say I have almost never been to one where all the stations are working. I also never get above 135 speed. I hope the Tesla adapters work well and can be used at most of their locations.

 

[Bob Foster]

Just checked, and while we seem to be OK on the west coast, a lot of stations mid-country (and NY State) are out. Curious.

I live in Alabama and usually travel to Orlando or Nashville. I have a lot less problems with the station when going to Nashville. On my way to Orlando last time, I watch a small fight between who was their first and one of the two drivers, the nasty guy, backed into the other car.

 

[ljnelson109]

We all agree that EA has its issues. But, sometimes I am not sure EA is the problem as much as the simple supply and demand is the issue. Today I went to a nearby EA location. They have 10 stations at this location. When I arrived, 9 were in-use and one was vacant. There was one person waiting because the 1 station was not working. I went ahead and pulled up to the unused station and started my call with EA. While their script is a bit annoying, their insistence of asking name, vehicle make, model and year, when they have my account listed by my phone #, they are most often successful in rebooting/resetting a stuck station. Once it was reset, I proceeded to get 58 kWh of energy in 27 minutes on the "150 kW" charger (174 actual cap) on a 55 degree day.

Of course, when I left, there were 7 available stations.

I really think that the EA system is decent. I would love to have more locations. I would love to have one closer to my house (my nearest locations are 10 and 12 miles away). My only question is whether their business model will support growth. With so many people charging for free and now the federal subsidies taken away, will they grow, or worse, maintain this infrastructure?

 

[Zcd1]

It has always absolutely been a supply and demand issue, exacerbated by unreliable hardware.

Replacing the unreliable hardware only addresses part of the issue, and that’s already happening, but until the actual number of chargers increases dramatically, EA is likely to continue to largely suck…

 

[berkeleysquirrel]

While EA does indeed suck in general, when things go right our cars charge super quick:

Agreed. It's been pleasantly warm up here the past few days and right at that sweet spot of battery temp. I was alone at a 350 kW balanced charger today for most of the session. Towards the end, a Tesla pulled in next door and plugged in, but even then, and even over 80% it was still pulling 160 kW:



Went from 21% to 83% in 15 minutes - one of my best EA experiences.

 

[Zcd1]

Agreed. It's been pleasantly warm up here the past few days and right at that sweet spot of battery temp. I was alone at a 350 kW balanced charger today for most of the session. Towards the end, a Tesla pulled in next door and plugged in, but even then, and even over 80% it was still pulling 160 kW:

View attachment 61889

Went from 21% to 83% in 15 minutes - one of my best EA experiences.

I’ve seen >130KW over 80%, but never 160, so that’s fantastic.

For reference, even my Plaid would be at less than <70KW at that SOC, and it charges faster than all other Teslas except the Cybertruck.

 

[brucek]

I was alone at a 350 kW balanced charger today for most of the session.

I have seen the term balanced charger and understand it somehow means shared power source. If I am at a six-charger station, does the balance happen between all six, or are they somehow split into pairs? Does it make parking next to a slow-charging car like a bolt better since they use less load in the balance?

 

[berkeleysquirrel]

I have seen the term balanced charger and understand it somehow means shared power source. If I am at a six-charger station, does the balance happen between all six, or are they somehow split into pairs? Does it make parking next to a slow-charging car like a bolt better since they use less load in the balance?

They're normally split into pairs next to each other. Each set of chargers will split the 350 kW if 2 cars are plugged in. Anecdotally, I think your example scenario is better for our cars. It still won't pull the full amount of power but you get more of the power share when plugged in next to a slow charging car, so if I have a choice, I usually will pick a Bolt to park next to. That, or a car that's wasting time trying to get to 100%. Last time I remember, I pulled in next to an ID4 that was at >90% and was only able to pull 30-40 kW, and when I plugged in, I was able to ramp up to 190-200 kW.

 

[Zcd1]

They're normally split into pairs next to each other. Each set of chargers will split the 350 kW if 2 cars are plugged in. Anecdotally, I think your example scenario is better for our cars. It still won't pull the full amount of power but you get more of the power share when plugged in next to a slow charging car, so if I have a choice, I usually will pick a Bolt to park next to. That, or a car that's wasting time trying to get to 100%. Last time I remember, I pulled in next to an ID4 that was at >90% and was only able to pull 30-40 kW, and when I plugged in, I was able to ramp up to 190-200 kW.

This is good information for me -thanks.

I knew about power sharing between chargers, but didn't know that it was demand-based - I thought it was a fixed 50% to each car.

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[TinsleyC]

But...go ahead and keep running your dinosaur juice machine. I hope you are taking good care of it because there won't be many more like it.

Thank you, I will keep driving my ICE G80 until it makes sense to buy an electric - if it ever does. Maybe I'm still a car or two away from that.

But I did take a small step - bought a new hybrid for my wife. But there's no way I'm going to put my trust into a charging station. At least not right now. Sounds like your situation is different, glad it works out for you.

 

[TinsleyC]

I really think that the EA system is decent. I would love to have more locations. I would love to have one closer to my house (my nearest locations are 10 and 12 miles away). My only question is whether their business model will support growth. With so many people charging for free and now the federal subsidies taken away, will they grow, or ...

Sorry for dumb questions but -

1) Is EA free? Like no cost to charge up your EV?

2) How many of you have invested in a home charging system that can quickly charge your car?

3) What would it cost to install a charger that would fully charge your car (say 90%) in 3-4 hours? Does a typical home even have enough juice to get there? (I'm no electrician)

A friend had a Chevy Bolt and he said it took pretty much two full days to fully charge his car. That's not practical, and he ended up selling the car, and drives his ICE Infiniti Q50 (that he kept) exclusively now.

If I was going to go to an all-electric car I would invest $2-3k into a charging system that would at least charge the car to >80% in six hours or less. Is that even possible? Why do people like EA so much, is it cheaper in the long run? I realize that only helps charging when you're in your hometown, but that's where I am 90% of the time.

 

[David-R]

Thank you, I will keep driving my ICE G80 until it makes sense to buy an electric - if it ever does. Maybe I'm still a car or two away from that.

But I did take a small step - bought a new hybrid for my wife. But there's no way I'm going to put my trust into a charging station. At least not right now. Sounds like your situation is different, glad it works out for you.

I own two ICE vehicles including a 2025 G70. I’ve learned a ton about electric vehicles from the members of this forum. Mostly it has convinced me that I’m not ready to buy an EV.

The vehicle specific problems like charging units and dead 12 volt batteries tell me the technology is underdeveloped and the charging infrastructure is in its infancy and has a long way to go before traveling is simple like it is with an ICE car. For a simple everyday commuter car I think an EV could work for me but that’s not my situation.

I really do admire the tenacity of you guys who work through all of the challenges. You are the pioneers of this technology!

 

[noremacnova]

Sorry for dumb questions but -

1) Is EA free? Like no cost to charge up your EV?

Correct. For three years.

2) How many of you have invested in a home charging system that can quickly charge your car?

Virtually everybody on here. (Yes, there are some exceptions. You know who you are!)

3) What would it cost to install a charger that would fully charge your car (say 90%) in 3-4 hours? Does a typical home even have enough juice to get there? (I'm no electrician)

The most powerful Lvl 2 “home” charger can deliver 11.5kW. That will charge you from 10-80% in less than five hrs. Installation costs vary, but figure on hardware and labor being $1-2k.

A friend had a Chevy Bolt and he said it took pretty much two full days to fully charge his car. That's not practical, and he ended up selling the car, and drives his ICE Infiniti Q50 (that he kept) exclusively now.

Your friend was using a Lvl 1, 120V charger. See above.

If I was going to go to an all-electric car I would invest $2-3k into a charging system that would at least charge the car to >80% in six hours or less. Is that even possible?

Yes. See above.

Why do people like EA so much, is it cheaper in the long run?

First, it’s a Lvl 3 service that’s ultra fast. It can charge from 10-80% in less than 20 min. And second, it’s not cheaper (unless you’re on the free plan)! Home charging will almost always be less expensive at market rates. But time is money, especially when you’re traveling away from home, so Lvl 3 becomes critical and is the topic of much discussion on this forum.

 

[Looney100]

If I was going to go to an all-electric car I would invest $2-3k into a charging system that would at least charge the car to >80% in six hours or less. Is that even possible? Why do people like EA so much, is it cheaper in the long run? I realize that only helps charging when you're in your hometown, but that's where I am 90% of the time.

Quick home chargers are overrated. Most of us simply don’t need one - especially with access to free L3 charging. The scenario described above of needing to go from 10-90% would suggest that somehow someone just drive long enough (over 300kms) to drain their full battery to 10%, returned home for five hours, and needed to then drive another >300 KMs. It just doesn’t happen enough to matter. The typical commute is less than 70km per day, this can be recovered overnight on a simple 120V charger. If you’re travelling a significant distance in a single day, you’ll be using a L3 charger, which will get the job done in about 20 minutes.

Think of charging like food preparation, in most instances, you’re not in a rush, so you take the time to prepare a meal at home. When you’re travelling and want to minimize your idle time, you grab take-out.

 

[Cabbage]

In many cases, you are right. A lot of people can get by with an L1 charger.

But what works best will depend on several variables. Number of electric cars, average number of miles driven during the day, number of hours available to charge, and amperage rating of the circuit being used for example.

I think a typical garage outlet is most likely a 15 amp circuit, but some houses may only be on a 10 amp circuit. Assuming 120 volts, that means as much as 1.44 kw or as little as .96 kw available. Assuming the car efficiency is between 3 and 3.5 miles/kw (4.8 - 5.6 kilometers/kw), that means an owner could add about 3 to 5 miles (5 to 8 kilometers) of range/hour. And assuming the car can be plugged in for 10 to 12 hours overnight, then if an owner drives less than 30 to 60 miles/day, then yes, they can likely get by with an L1 charge rate... in the summer. Winter would likely be limited to 20 to 40 miles/day.

Drive more miles than can be replenished overnight at that rate and an L2 charger sure comes in handy. Some of us don't get the free L3 charging because we got our cars after February of this year. And even if an owner does get the free charging, there is the convenience factor of not needing to stop at an L3 charger on the way home, let alone if there is a line waiting to get on the charger. And that free charging only applies to EA. No EA charger along the route home? More hassle.

I prefer to keep my L1 charger in the car for that emergency situation that will likely never happen. If an owner uses the L1 charger that came with the car, they have two choices: either take the cable out every night and put it back in the car every morning, or leave it at home so they don't have it with them.

Each owner will have to evaluate their situation to determine if installing an L2 charger is worth it.

 

[GreyGV60]

In many cases, you are right. A lot of people can get by with an L1 charger.

But what works best will depend on several variables. Number of electric cars, average number of miles driven during the day, number of hours available to charge, and amperage rating of the circuit being used for example.

I think a typical garage outlet is most likely a 15 amp circuit, but some houses may only be on a 10 amp circuit. Assuming 120 volts, that means as much as 1.44 kw or as little as .96 kw available. Assuming the car efficiency is between 3 and 3.5 miles/kw (4.8 - 5.6 kilometers/kw), that means an owner could add about 3 to 5 miles (5 to 8 kilometers) of range/hour. And assuming the car can be plugged in for 10 to 12 hours overnight, then if an owner drives less than 30 to 60 miles/day, then yes, they can likely get by with an L1 charge rate... in the summer. Winter would likely be limited to 20 to 40 miles/day.

Drive more miles than can be replenished overnight at that rate and an L2 charger sure comes in handy. Some of us don't get the free L3 charging because we got our cars after February of this year. And even if an owner does get the free charging, there is the convenience factor of not needing to stop at an L3 charger on the way home, let alone if there is a line waiting to get on the charger. And that free charging only applies to EA. No EA charger along the route home? More hassle.

I prefer to keep my L1 charger in the car for that emergency situation that will likely never happen. If an owner uses the L1 charger that came with the car, they have two choices: either take the cable out every night and put it back in the car every morning, or leave it at home so they don't have it with them.

Each owner will have to evaluate their situation to determine if installing an L2 charger is worth it.

I agree. However, regarding the comment that some don't need even a L2 charger because we have free L3 charging. I guess that depends. I have the 3 year free EA charging, however near my home all of the EA charging locations only have 3 to 4 chargers at each location most of the time they are all full and personally I don't want to wait +30 minutes for a charger to open up. I have heard that there are members of this forum that have EA stations that have many charging units at each location and that they do not have any issues finding an open charger. But that's not my case. My thought was that I spent $70k on the car, so spending $500 for a L2 charger was fine with me. But then again, each of our situations are different and it's whatever works best for each of us.

 

[GreyGV60]

I agree. However, regarding the comment that some don't need even a L2 charger because we have free L3 charging. I guess that depends. I have the 3 year free EA charging, however near my home all of the EA charging locations only have 3 to 4 chargers at each location most of the time they are all full and personally I don't want to wait +30 minutes for a charger to open up. I have heard that there are members of this forum that have EA stations that have many charging units at each location and that they do not have any issues finding an open charger. But that's not my case. My thought was that I spent $70k on the car, so spending $500 for a L2 charger was fine with me. But then again, each of our situations are different and it's whatever works best for each of us.

Also I thought I heard when buying a new Genesis in the U.S. they now do not offer the 3 year free EA charging but instead are offering a $500 credit for charging at EVGO, Charge Point etc or a L2 home charger. Maybe someone on the forum that recently purchased a GV60 can advise us.

 

[Cabbage]

Also I thought I heard when buying a new Genesis in the U.S. they now do not offer the 3 year free EA charging but instead are offering a $500 credit for charging at EVGO, Charge Point etc or a L2 home charger. Maybe someone on the forum that recently purchased a GV60 can advise us.

True statement. I got mine on March 6th.

Two choices: Free L2 charger but you have to pay to have it installed or $500 credit on your Chargepoint account.

Since I already have an L2 charger, I took the $500. I'm hoping I can use the credit on roaming partners too. That is, Chargepoint is a roaming partner with EVGO, Flo and a couple other networks. We are supposed to be able to start charging on any roaming partner from any other partner's app. My plan for road trips is to use the Chargepoint app to start charging at the GM EVGO charging stations found at the Pilot/Flying J stations along my route. I won't know until September though when we have plans for a trip that will afford the opportunity.

If not, I guess we'll be visiting a lot of Chargepoint chargers when appropriate.

 

[TinsleyC]

Great info, thanks everyone.

How many 20-80% L3 charges can you get for $500? Seems like free charging for 3 years is a better deal, assuming you can easily get to one.

Personally, if I bought an EV, putting in an L2 charger at home would be a no brainer, and I'd always carry my L1 with me. Gotta be ready for spontaneous travel, and lessen the chance of ever getting stuck somewhere on the road.