Ethanol Questions I haven't seen answered

[bsantelli]

No offense - but what an enormous waste of time. I guess it satisfies curiosity so go for it. Much easier to just not use it in the first place.

No Offense taken. The reason I bought it was so I can test different gas stations to see if they all are at or around 10%, AND to verify that the one and only ethanol free gas station is indeed ethanol free (at a $.60 premium, I want to be sure). plus, I feel the writing is on the wall for the one and only ethanol free gas station in my area - owner has already told me it is getting harder and harder for him to get the stuff - and there have been times, where I have seen he has run out and the pumps turned off (signs on the pump, for example on a sat, that say out of gas until tuesday).

PLUS - maybe I do just have too much time on my hands.

 

[QuantumRift]

For the benefit of others, I have found my question to #3. Gas Station owners do NOT know how much ethanol is in their gas, and it can range wildly from one gas station to the other, and even one batch to the other at the same gas station.

I bought an ethanol test kit here (http://www.shopeaa.com/alcoholtestkit.aspx) so that I can see if any of the local gas stations are more consistently under 10% than others.

That is correct. A station is NOT required to 'know' how much ethanol is in their fuel..only that the 10% stickers be posted on the pumps (and that requirement seems to be going by the wayside as well). Nowadays, all gasoline all comes from the distribution point, with the LAST stop being the 'additive' station....

and a good fuel tester is a must if you are concerned....here's another good site:

http://www.fuel-testers.com/

 

[QuantumRift]

No Offense taken. The reason I bought it was so I can test different gas stations to see if they all are at or around 10%, AND to verify that the one and only ethanol free gas station is indeed ethanol free (at a $.60 premium, I want to be sure). plus, I feel the writing is on the wall for the one and only ethanol free gas station in my area - owner has already told me it is getting harder and harder for him to get the stuff - and there have been times, where I have seen he has run out and the pumps turned off (signs on the pump, for example on a sat, that say out of gas until tuesday).

PLUS - maybe I do just have too much time on my hands.

As I've said here and on other forums, "pure" unadulterated fuel is becoming a thing of the past. The Feds mandate blended fuel be sold because they mandated in the 90's that ALL engines sold in the US be 10%-capable.

You can get pure gas at airports and marinas but road-use taxes have not been paid on it and you could get hammered if you put it in your tank. Also, AVGAS is pretty durned expensive.

You can probably buy pure gas at performance shops as well but at a very very high premium.

 

[Top Gear]

Hi bsantelli - I just joined this forum recently, and discussed this topic on another forum, so I'm late to this thread, but here's what I think...

1) Reason to Avoid Ethanol: The risk of fuel system and engine damage, and if not lesser performance, think of inadequate operation, such as being hard to start, sputtering, computer de-tuning, even "downstream" issues such as shifting smoothness, etc, etc. Warranties depend on your model's ratings. For the 2012 V6 Coupe, 87 E10 is the minimum standard, but that by no means implies that minimum is ideal. Far from it, if that 87 E10 is some low-end brand.

2) Impact/Benefits, even if Occasionally Used: If you use a "Top Tier" brand, then the additives and detergents in their gas will clean the system and help reduce or eliminate the threats from corn gunk that builds up from lower-end ethanol blends. If you use a no-name crap brand, it might not matter what grade or blend you use, because it's all crap If you use a Top Tier E10, you might not notice much performance/mileage difference with the ethanol-free version of the same, but the benefits are still there, unseen.

3) Station Percentages: It can vary as others said, but by late 2012 I think it was becoming pretty standardized at 10% corn alchohol. E15 is on the way, perhaps, and some cars run (barely) on E85. This is partly why the issue "snuck up" on a lot of us, even those of us who consider ourselves concientious buyers of premium gasolines for cars we care about, as most stations changed over from ethanol-free and/or light blends to E10 without warning, aside from the small stickers on their pumps. As time goes on, a not-small number of stations listed on Pure-Gas.org are already, or are converting to E10-only, and so "pure" Top Tier gas is becoming harder to find. Where I live, near lakes and the ocean, it's more common to find ethanol-free as a "regular" 87 grade no-name crap gas for the few who require it. So, in that case (say on a trip and stuck in the wilds), is it better to run a crappy 87 ethanol-free from one station on that interstate exit, or pop across the highway for a top-of-the-line premium E10??

Anyway, hope all that helps (even if it's more than a year later)

 

[Billfz1]

The fact is that ethanol was put into to replace other carcinogenic oxygenates. Mtbf was poisoning ground water on California. The sadest fact in the entire argument is that oxygenates DO NOT REDUCE POLLUTION ON FI CARS WITH AN O2 SENSOR! That is almost any car that will run closed loop and made in the last 15-20 years. The question posed by the op, has a qualifier that is non rational. Other than performance or mpg... I would say what else is there? My opinion is that given an opportunity to run non-ethanol fuel I would run NOTHING ELSE. You aren't protecting the environment, the engine computer increases the fuel until all the O2 is burned. While newer cars will tolerate ethanol, there is no positive effect from running it. I would also say that the "black soot" that many of the forum posters see on their bumpers is likely caused by alcohol combustion by products rather than incomplete combustion of the fuel. RUN REAL GAS WHENEVER YOU CAN. There is no reason at all to run a fuel containing ethanol.
Bill

 

[Mark_888]

The fact is that ethanol was put into to replace other carcinogenic oxygenates. Mtbf was poisoning ground water on California. The sadest fact in the entire argument is that oxygenates DO NOT REDUCE POLLUTION ON FI CARS WITH AN O2 SENSOR! That is almost any car that will run closed loop and made in the last 15-20 years. The question posed by the op, has a qualifier that is non rational. Other than performance or mpg... I would say what else is there? My opinion is that given an opportunity to run non-ethanol fuel I would run NOTHING ELSE. You aren't protecting the environment, the engine computer increases the fuel until all the O2 is burned. While newer cars will tolerate ethanol, there is no positive effect from running it. I would also say that the "black soot" that many of the forum posters see on their bumpers is likely caused by alcohol combustion by products rather than incomplete combustion of the fuel. RUN REAL GAS WHENEVER YOU CAN. There is no reason at all to run a fuel containing ethanol.
Bill

One of the main original arguments for using E10 (or for using ethanol in general) is to lessen our reliance on foreign oil supplies and to use a regenerative source of energy (crops). However, the use of crops for ethanol has raised food prices noticeably (for both crops and for meat, since most livestock feed uses large amounts of crops), so on balance its use is probably regrettable from an economic point of view. Given the power of the agriculture lobby in the US, the use of ethanol will likely continue since high crop prices are making farmers rich.

The vast majority of people in the US don't have any practical choice and must use E10.

 

[Top Gear]

Right, personally, I've always agreed with reducing our use of oil, even eliminating it, but corn gunk ethanol is not the answer. There isn't enough farmland world-wide to grow enough plant matter to produce enough non-oil fuel to get the US through a year of regular usage without using oil and coal, and even our unbelievably selfish lifestyles cannot sustain that kind of humanitarian abuse (we're already using 30% of the world's resources to keep 5% of the world's population fat and dumb). Eventually, because the oil and coal will run out, and because we need farmland to grow real food, we'll all be driving electric cars (like Tesla models) and using more public transport (like bullet trains), all on renewable grid energy. Ethanol was a promising idea long ago, but it came to market too late, doesn't work as intended, and creates more problems than it solves. The real answer is to get off of oil and coal entirely, but as history shows, that's not likely to happen in the US politically until there is no other choice, after whole sectors of the economy collapse, etc

 

[landtuna]

Hi - new owner of 2012 Genesis 3.8 (tech/prem pkg).

1) Disregarding performance or mpg - is there any reason to use non-ethanol fuel? for example, I know that in mowers, ethanol can cause premature aging/failure of rubber parts, and have seen warranties not honored due to the use of ethanol.

Brian

Vehicle fuel systems have been modified for ethanol use for more than a decade now so its use should not cause any problems for your hoses (they are not normal rubber any longer).

The reason that mowers had problems was primarily due to their age and the fact that when produced there was no such thing as ethanol.

 

[Billfz1]

As I've said here and on other forums, "pure" unadulterated fuel is becoming a thing of the past. The Feds mandate blended fuel be sold because they mandated in the 90's that ALL engines sold in the US be 10%-capable.

You can get pure gas at airports and marinas but road-use taxes have not been paid on it and you could get hammered if you put it in your tank. Also, AVGAS is pretty durned expensive.

You can probably buy pure gas at performance shops as well but at a very very high premium.

Quantum, Avgas is still LEADED fuel. Don't run it in your car or it will poison the converter. Not to mention expensive. Many of the available "race" fuels available at performance shops also have TE Lead additives. The FAA has been talking about switching to unleaded avgas for years but it hasn't happened yet. Many of the general aviation aircraft have engines designed in the 50's. They don't have the valve seats and guides compatible with unleaded fuels.
Bill