• Car enthusiast? Join us on Cars Connected! iOS | Android | Desktop
  • Hint: Use a descriptive title for your new message
    If you're looking for help and want to draw people in who can assist you, use a descriptive subject title when posting your message. In other words, "I need help with my car" could be about anything and can easily be overlooked by people who can help. However, "I need help with my transmission" will draw interest from people who can help with a transmission specific issue. Be as descriptive as you can. Please also post in the appropriate forum. The "Lounge" is for introducing yourself. If you need help with your G70, please post in the G70 section - and so on... This message can be closed by clicking the X in the top right corner.

Fuel Economy

My apologies. Yes you did and I missed it. So what does a moderately optioned M340i go for msrp?

No worries.

Depends on what options are important to people but one can spend ~55-57K and come away with quit a few popular options. Things like a sunroof, navigation, 16 speaker upgraded audio system, safety tech, etc.

I also try not to compare used to new as that is generally not a fair comparison. But there are also "loaded" 1-2 year old CPO 340i's to be had for around that same price as well.

I think Genesis needs to seriously consider all of these factors before it sets a price that shines a light on the G70's flaws.
 
Negative, ghostrider. The Stinger was underrated from the factory. Some guys over on that forum, which I'm a part of, see anywhere from 311-351whp. With the lowest figure, 311, and having a 17% powertrain lose (average), that gives you 372bhp. The 351 dyno gives the guy over 400bhp (This was claimed, I am not saying if this is true or not). It will be a mid 4sec to 60 sprint and clip the 1/2 in probably 13 flat. Car and Driver usually gets the better side of the tests and did the Stinger RWD 3.3 in 4.4 sec. It'll be close to the 340i xDrive and will probably trap a higher speed than it but a 12.7 is quick as h*ll. It will probably come down to the driver but AWD and automatics are pretty consistent even with different drivers at the wheel. Expect the 340i to have the majority and a few G70's beating the 340i. Edge will go to the 340i.

The G70 3.3T Sport should be quick. Obviously this isn't a magazine test but it looks promising. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CfXFlAzozUY
 
As far as the dyno readings go, take them all with a grain of salt. Dyno readings can vary wildly based on dyno type, correction factors, weather, etc. For example, people refer to the Mustang dyno as the heart breaker and the Dynojet as the dream maker. Dynos are good tools to measure performance gains after modifications. Were the delta is the most important value. They however, are not a good tool to determine "crank" engine power. A dyno run is not equivalent to the SAE certification process.

Lastly, no dyno needed to report that the 340i being rated at 320 hp is laughable.

That confirms my statement about a guy who did 311whp and the other at 351whp. Not very consistent.

The G70 3.3T Sport should be quick. Obviously this isn't a magazine test but it looks promising.

Looks promising indeed. I wonder what kind of tuning went into it. The weight is probably the most obvious here.
 
I think it wouldn't be impossible for the G70 to tie the current crop of Germans. Even vs. the next gen models, maybe less than half a second difference.

Half a second is not a small difference.
 
Half a second is not a small difference.

It is not. It means you are losing by more than a Greyhound bus length at the end of the 1/4 mile. But if I lose 3/10's in the 1/4 mile but save 20 grand, that might be math I can live with.
 
It is not. It means you are losing by more than a Greyhound bus length at the end of the 1/4 mile. But if I lose 3/10's in the 1/4 mile but save 20 grand, that might be math I can live with.

As a teenager I spent many Sundays at the drag strip and a half second is HUGE. That said, it has been a long time since I had even a serious stoplight drag race. Sure, I like a peppy car, but opted for the 3.8 rather than spend the extra for the 5.0. Adequate for my needs but if you want more, enjoy.
 
It is not. It means you are losing by more than a Greyhound bus length at the end of the 1/4 mile. But if I lose 3/10's in the 1/4 mile but save 20 grand, that might be math I can live with.


Is 10% (roughly) a small difference? It depends on how you look at it, of course. Being able to live with or without a feature doesn't mean it's insignificant in a broader quantitative sense. If the base time is 5.0 seconds, then a half-second faster is a 10% improvement. Consider a weight reduction from 4000 pounds to 3600, a gas mileage decrease from 25 mpg to 22.5 mpg, a top speed decrease from 150 to 135 mph, a cost reduction from $50,000 to $45,000 -- those are all 10% differences and I think many people would consider at least some of those differences important. Of course, not everyone would consider all of them important. I could live with any one of those -- the higher weight, lower gas mileage, the slower top speed (especially), or even the higher price. But I don't regard any of them as inconsequential. I certainly prefer a car that is quicker, lighter, faster, and less expensive by 10%.

The G70 has distinguished itself on differences of this magnitude. Its claim to fame is that it's a more affordable alternative to established prestige brands that are comparable with respect to performance and luxury. Take away some of the performance and some of the luxury, or increase the price, and that comparison is meaningless (or at least wrong). And you don't need to spend an additional $20,000 to get a luxury/performance sedan that is quicker than the G70. The Infiniti Q50 400 Red Sport with 400 HP does 0-60 in about 4.5 or a bit better, depending on which source you check. Its street price may well be less than the G70's (we don't know what that will be yet) but we can say with certainty that it won't cost $20,000 more to get those 0-60 times from a luxury/sport sedan. The Infiniti lacks some luxury features like a heads-up-display, and a few other tech amenities. Are those inconsequential? Depends on the buyer's priorities. I prefer what the G70 has to offer to what the Infiniti does. But I woudn't fault anyone with different priorities (like the availability of a top notch and fully established dealer network) for reaching the opposite conclusion. Now, I understand that for you, the 0-60 time difference isn't a consideration. But that doesn't mean that it's inconsequential or unimportant to others.

Virtually any attribute of any car that is lacking in some competitor can be dismissed as trivial and will be of no concern to some buyers. Every car is a trade-off.
 
Is 10% (roughly) a small difference? It depends on how you look at it, of course. Being able to live with or without a feature doesn't mean it's insignificant in a broader quantitative sense. If the base time is 5.0 seconds, then a half-second faster is a 10% improvement. Consider a weight reduction from 4000 pounds to 3600, a gas mileage decrease from 25 mpg to 22.5 mpg, a top speed decrease from 150 to 135 mph, a cost reduction from $50,000 to $45,000 -- those are all 10% differences and I think many people would consider at least some of those differences important. Of course, not everyone would consider all of them important. I could live with any one of those -- the higher weight, lower gas mileage, the slower top speed (especially), or even the higher price. But I don't regard any of them as inconsequential. I certainly prefer a car that is quicker, lighter, faster, and less expensive by 10%.

Virtually any attribute of any car that is lacking in some competitor can be dismissed as trivial and will be of no concern to some buyers. Every car is a trade-off.

My notion still holds true as I am not making a "theoretical" comparison. If I am expected to accept “less” in certain categories then if you want me to make a purchase you need to try to offset that by giving me an advantage in others. I am leaving out appearance, interior/exterior colors, etc. as they are all very subjective and can’t really be measured. So for things that can be measured. Fuel economy is set, it is not getting better. Performance is set, it is likely not getting better either. So you have amenities/options combined with price. Give the customer lots for little.

We can use our best “guess” of what the G70 will be vs. the current best in class. I will assume it equals the Stinger’s performance numbers at a minimum. Each of the categories vary wildly, with some much more than 10% and some much less than 10%.

C43 AMG: It is faster to 60 by 3 tenths, it is 2 tenths faster in the ¼ mile, it gets 15% better fuel economy, similar equipment level to the “loaded” G70 is ~70K. Missing: No rear heated seats. No Carplay or Android Auto if you get Nav.
340i xDrive: It is faster to 60 by 3 tenths, it is 2 tenths faster in the ¼ mile, it gets 25% better fuel economy, similar equipment level to the “loaded” G70 is~ 65K. Missing: No ventilated seats. No android auto.

Now, I am a little slower, get substantially worse fuel economy but I have MORE options. Maybe I don’t care about the additional options. So next we have price. Follow the standard Genesis model and make it as low as possible. If you don’t I suspect not many will make a purpose.

The G70 has distinguished itself on differences of this magnitude. Its claim to fame is that it's a more affordable alternative to established prestige brands that are comparable with respect to performance and luxury. Take away some of the performance and some of the luxury, or increase the price, and that comparison is meaningless (or at least wrong). And you don't need to spend an additional $20,000 to get a luxury/performance sedan that is quicker than the G70. The Infiniti Q50 400 Red Sport with 400 HP does 0-60 in about 4.5 or a bit better, depending on which source you check. Its street price may well be less than the G70's (we don't know what that will be yet) but we can say with certainty that it won't cost $20,000 more to get those 0-60 times from a luxury/sport sedan. The Infiniti lacks some luxury features like a heads-up-display, and a few other tech amenities. Are those inconsequential? Depends on the buyer's priorities. I prefer what the G70 has to offer to what the Infiniti does. But I woudn't fault anyone with different priorities (like the availability of a top notch and fully established dealer network) for reaching the opposite conclusion. Now, I understand that for you, the 0-60 time difference isn't a consideration. But that doesn't mean that it's inconsequential or unimportant to others. .

The G70 way well be faster in the ¼ mile and to 60 if it matches the Stingers’s performance (0-60 in 4.4, don't really care about that but 1/4 mile is in the 12.8 to 12.9 range. Q50 is 4.5 and 13 flat for both measures). The Q50 RS400 is around 62k with every option. The issue is there are a LOT of options missing vs. what we think the G70 will have:
No ventilated seats, no heated rear seats, no wireless charging, no HUD, no carplay, no android auto, lower tier audio system, no free 3 year maintenance, no App to control the vehicle, terrible stock rubber, etc. Plus you have to get DAP once you start adding on options. I have driven the Stinger and the Q50 RS400. If the G70 is similar to the Stinger it is much better than any DAP equipped model. I was just flying around an empty, locked parking lot in the Q50 and I think it was trying to kill me. So it has a lot less options, likely isn't faster and the MSRP will "hopefully" be a good bit more as well.
 
Looking to update and upgrade your Genesis luxury sport automobile? Look no further than right here in our own forum store - where orders are shipped immediately!
Back
Top