G70 to undergo 2nd refresh...

[YEH]

according to the KCB.

If accurate, not really surprised as the G70 has been a disappointment sale-wise, and unlike the G80 and G90, doesn't sell well in Korea.

Makes financial sense to limit expenditure by doing a 2nd refresh (like what Lexus has done) in order to direct more resources to an eventual EV model (remains to be seen if it remains a sedan) replacement.

 

[Slip_Angle]

It's a great car and proven platform already, so yeah why not just tweak it. Interested to see if the car gets more power or the 3.5T and 2.5T...

 

[Volfy]

If accurate,

That's a pretty big IF. Luxury sedans, even the G80 and especially G90, are not big sellers here in the US, but Hyundai knows they cannot be taken as a serious player in the luxury market if they do not have a solid presence in the sedan segment. This is especially true for luxury performance, of which the G70 is front and center in Genesis' portfolio. You only need to look at their concept cars to know how focused they are about luxury performance:

GENESIS Concept Car - Future of GENESIS Sedans & Coupes | GENESIS Worldwide GENESIS Concept Car - Future of GENESIS Sedans & Coupes | GENESIS Worldwide

Story of GENESIS concept car. Find out more information about GENESIS MINT, ESSENTIA, GV80, NEW YORK and GENESIS X concept cars | GENESIS Worldwide GENESIS Concept Car - Future of GENESIS Sedans & Coupes | GENESIS Worldwide

www.genesis.com

Once you get into the luxury segment, the numbers game works differently. Sales volume isn't always of prime importance. The halo factor is just as crucial, particularly for a marque like Genesis still trying to break into and legitimize itself in the segment. Maintaining the status quo isn't going to cut it, when the goal is to impress buyers away from long entrenched competitors.

Lexus might get away with staying the course... for a while. But if they don't up their game soon, they are going to "refresh" themselves into oblivion, like Infiniti finds itself now. Both of these brands' lineup are becoming increasingly stale. And their buyers are starting to bail. See here:

Brand Loyalty is Declining for Most Luxury Automakers

Brand loyalty has declined for most luxury automakers, but three brands—Tesla, Maserati, and Genesis—appear to have bucked the trend.

www.visualcapitalist.com

I think even if the G70 line won't see drastic changes, there will continue to infuse it with enough mojo to keep up the forward momentum.

 

[JCtx]

They should get the newer engines for sure; in fact, the Stinger already has the 2.5T. And also a freaking full digital dash, just like Hyundai put on the also old Kona platform. And finally, add the 'elite' package to the 2.5T so it can be equipped like a V6 model (except the Brembos and dual-exhaust, which is fine with me). So when is this happening, reportedly?

 

[Backslack]

G70 sales have went up quite a bit in the U.S. since the refresh, actually. Even higher than its first model year.

KCB has been wrong about so many things (how many times have they claimed each year that the Stinger would be cancelled again and again?) that I don't put any weight on their words. They never properly source their articles either.

What I do know is that 2025 is the year that Genesis claims they will start releasing new models as electric-only. The current G70's 6-year lifespan ends in model year 2024. And Hyundai just unveiled the Ioniq 6 sedan. Put two and two together, and it's pretty obvious what the future of the G70 will be.

 

[Volfy]

Genesis was very sneaky in the way they worded the 2025 announcement: Genesis announces all-electric future, ending new internal combustion models in 2025

If you listen to CEO Chang and Donkenvolke's own words, they didn't say the entire lineup in 2025 will be all EV, only ALL NEW MODELS will be EV. At the time of that announcement, G70/G80/G90/GV870/GV70 were all existing models and, therefore, not subjected to the "all new models will be EV" clause. I suspect Genesis deliberately obfuscated the wording. And sure enough, lots of automotive journalists and influencers retweeted their announcement into something like no more ICE vehicles after 2025... making it sound more sensational than it really was. The article I linked above is a perfect example. I'm sure that was Genesis' intent.

I highly doubt in 2 short years, Genesis - or any other major mfrs - will stop ICE vehicle production all together. Most markets around the world are nowhere near capable of hosting an all EV ecosystem with their infrastructure. Not in 2yrs.

ICE will be around a while.

 

[Backslack]

I highly doubt in 2 short years, Genesis - or any other major mfrs - will stop ICE vehicle production all together. Most markets around the world are nowhere near capable of hosting an all EV ecosystem with their infrastructure. Not in 2yrs.

They're not going to stop ICE production altogether, as the current M3 platform vehicles (crossovers and G80+G90) will last until the end of their natural 6-year lifespans and not be considered "new" until their next gen model. However, the current-gen G70 will be at the end of its 6-year lifespan and would be considered a new car with the next generation and thus be an EV when it's released in MY 2025.

It would make even less sense if it wasn't an EV because Hyundai has to recoup the develop costs on the Ioniq 6 the same way they did the Ioniq 5 by spinning off the GV60 and EV6. The Ioniq 6 will be spun off into the next G70 and Stinger.

 

[Volfy]

"Starting in 2025, all new vehicles launched will be pure electric vehicles... By 2030, Genesis will establish itself as a 100% zero-emissions vehicle brand that aims to reach sales of 400k cars..."

Even the 2030 goal technically does not preclude ICE vehicle production. However, the wording is nebulous enough to be read in many different ways.

At the end of the day, Genesis will mfr and sell what the motoring public wants to buy. Regardless of what the current EV hype is, there are hordes of car buyers that are not going to buy EV any time soon. I, for one, am not... not until I see EV infrastructure rises to a level near on par with ICE.

 

[tarhoosier]

I have mentioned this before in another conversation: There are many places in the world where vehicle sales are important to worldwide manufacturers, in volumes large and small, but where there is unreliable electricity service or only in central cities not the hinterlands and other such situations. Petrol can be portable or shared from vehicle to vehicle and electricity cannot. Much of Africa, many places in the third world, even China itself where deep in the countryside electric chargers are insufficient to supply significant numbers of vehicles. And hundreds of millions of people live in these places and depend on their vehicles, including agricultural ones. Internal combustion engines have a long run ahead of them yet.

 

[YEH]

That's a pretty big IF. Luxury sedans, even the G80 and especially G90, are not big sellers here in the US, but Hyundai knows they cannot be taken as a serious player in the luxury market if they do not have a solid presence in the sedan segment. This is especially true for luxury performance, of which the G70 is front and center in Genesis' portfolio. You only need to look at their concept cars to know how focused they are about luxury performance:

Not like Audi sells a lot of sedans here - like Lexus, the majority of their sales is w/ their CUVs.

Ultimately, what automakers care about is whether there will be enough sales to get ROI.

The G80 and G90 do that in large part from domestic sales.

My guess is that we'll probably see an EV replacement for the G70 in sedan form, esp if the Ioniq 6 is a sales success here (and in Korea).

The halo for Genesis is the G90 or maybe the upcoming GV90 or the higher-end coupe that supposedly is in the works.

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[YEH]

It's a great car and proven platform already, so yeah why not just tweak it. Interested to see if the car gets more power or the 3.5T and 2.5T...

They should get the newer engines for sure; in fact, the Stinger already has the 2.5T. And also a freaking full digital dash, just like Hyundai put on the also old Kona platform. And finally, add the 'elite' package to the 2.5T so it can be equipped like a V6 model (except the Brembos and dual-exhaust, which is fine with me). So when is this happening, reportedly?

This was probably the plan all along and why they eschewed the engine upgrades for the 1st refresh.

Still think the platform (tight rear) is the major reason why the ancient IS still outsells the G70.

The best sales month for the refreshed G70 is around 1.5k; the best sales month for the doubly refreshed IS is around 2.8k.

 

[JCtx]

Well, the Genesis G70 debuted in 2017, so it's already 7 years old. I think the ancient IS debuted in 2013, but no way I'd buy that car over the G70 (I considered it), especially being more expensive, so surprised it's doing better than the G70. Anyway, I don't think the sales will justify a 2nd G70 refresh, but we'll find out soon enough, I guess. Large sedans are disappearing fast, so curious how long the current G80 and G90 will fare as well.

 

[Backslack]

Lexus will always outsell any Genesis equivalent simply because they have the superior dealer network and inventory to match. The only time this wasn't the case was with the GS (compared to the G80), which was axed anyway because the ES cannibalized all its sales.

Compare Lexus to luxury brands with similar dealer networks (the Germans) and see how far behind the IS actually is in sales.

Well, the Genesis G70 debuted in 2017, so it's already 7 years old.

It made its debut year in MY 2018 and the 6 year lifespan ends with 2024. Hence why I said MY 2025 is when the next gen will debut.

This was probably the plan all along and why they eschewed the engine upgrades for the 1st refresh.

I don't buy that for a second when the Stinger has already received the 2.5T.

 

[Volfy]

Not like Audi sells a lot of sedans here - like Lexus, the majority of their sales is w/ their CUVs.

Ultimately, what automakers care about is whether there will be enough sales to get ROI.

The G80 and G90 do that in large part from domestic sales.

My guess is that we'll probably see an EV replacement for the G70 in sedan form, esp if the Ioniq 6 is a sales success here (and in Korea).

The halo for Genesis is the G90 or maybe the upcoming GV90 or the higher-end coupe that supposedly is in the works.

G90 may be at the top of the range, but it is basically just a limo that wealthy Koreans buy to be chauffeured around. Halo car of the brand it is not, especially when performance is considered. When most car guys think of BMW, what pops up first? The 7-series? I doubt it. It is cars like the M3 that folks associate with the Bavarian brand.

As for the Lexus IS, paleez... that poor thing is basically unchanged since 1999. It would be like Genesis still sells the same G70 largely unchanged in 2042. Infiniti is no better. The G-series or later renamed Q40/60 has its major redesign in 2007. They still sell because these are more established name brands and have far better dealer networks than the young upstart Genesis that was only formally branded in 2015.

The G70 line is as important to Genesis as the 3-series is to BMW. It might grow and expand, but it is most definitely not going away.

The real halo car for Genesis is yet to come - mostly likely in the form of a performance coupe, hinted at with the X-Concept. No detail on its powertrain, other than being "EV-based". That, to me, is the fun one to watch for in the near future.

 

[Slip_Angle]

Well, no matter what happens - watching Genesis (and Kia/Hyundai) announce new cars is exciting. I think as a brand they are the biggest movers and shakers in the industry.

 

[canucklehead604]

...Infiniti is no better. The G-series or later renamed Q40/60 has its major redesign in 2007. They still sell because these are more established name brands and have far better dealer networks than the young upstart Genesis that was only formally branded in 2015.

^ watching Infiniti piss away the momentum and recognition they built up between 2003~2012 is painful. i owned G35 and G37 6MT sedans. fantastic cars. and who didn't love the coupe versions? so much fun and great value, sort of like a japanese muscle car with old school RWD layouts. when the Q50 launched in 2014 it was a major disappointment and they haven't really done anything since then to correct their course in a meaningful way. the Red Sport Q50 in ~2017 made almost no waves since it was an underwhelming trim addition to a car that was essentially unchanged since 2014. and that remains to this day. i feel bad for the sales team at Infiniti...it is a sinking ship.

it is much the same for the Q80 and other Infiniti models. the lack of development is embarrassing for a once up-and-coming brand. sure, the QX50 has that variable displacement thing, but nobody except for gearheads and Mechanical Engineers really care.

 

[Volfy]

The V35 chassis and VQ engines were a fantastic platform for Nissan. But the lack of new product development is really a sad saga following the heydays of Japanese automotive dominance. Dunno if it's effects of Ghosn's ruthless cost cutting lasting till this day, or just the Japanese economic stagnation overall that lasted through the Lost Decades. Even a company as large as Toyota has had difficulty sparing R&D capital and had to settle for help from Subaru and BMW for the GR 86 and Supra.

At least the new Z looks promising, even though it can hardly be called "all new".

 

[JCtx]

It made its debut year in MY 2018 and the 6 year lifespan ends with 2024.

Nope. Missed math in High School? Ha ha. Here's proof: 2018, 2019, 2020, 2021, 2022, 2023. So the 6th year ends with 2023. And even if it made the debut as a 2018, that MY sold for almost 2 years, so in reality it's already over 6 years old . And the freaking half-a$$ dash gives it away as old IMO. With a fully digital dash like my 2022 SF Calligraphy, and the new engines, it'd still be competitive IMO. Oh, and the 4-banger available fully optioned, like the 2021 was.

 

[Backslack]

Nope. Missed math in High School? Ha ha. Here's proof: 2018, 2019, 2020, 2021, 2022, 2023. So the 6th year ends with 2023. And even if it made the debut as a 2018, that MY sold for almost 2 years, so in reality it's already over 6 years old . And the freaking half-a$$ dash gives it away as old IMO. With a fully digital dash like my 2022 SF Calligraphy, and the new engines, it'd still be competitive IMO. Oh, and the 4-banger available fully optioned, like the 2021 was.

That was a typo on my part. The G70 wasn't sold in the U.S. until MY 2019. And look at other existing Genesis vehicles:

Hyundai Genesis/Original G80: USA MY 2015-2020.
Genesis G90: USA MY 2017-2022.

And now the G70: USA MY 2019-2024 (presumably)- new model comes out 2025.

In South Korea, they always come out one MY ahead of the rest of the world, so for them it would be MY 2024. By the way, only in the U.S. do you not get a full digital dash, it is digital everywhere else in the world.

And forget the 4-banger being fully optioned when that isn't the case for any single Genesis vehicle sold in the U.S.

 

[JCtx]

The G70 2.0T was fully loaded HERE (in the US) in 2021, and THAT was my point. It had nappa, HUD, suede-like headliner, ventilated front seats, etc with the prestige and elite packages. After 2021, no more elite package, but at least ventilated seats were added for 2023 to the Prestige package, or I wouldn't have bought it. And yes, I know both the full digital dash and new engines could easily be fitted to it here, but Hyundai just didn't want to. And yes, Korea has always had more options there, be it Palisade, G70, or anything else.