G70 to undergo 2nd refresh...

[MrMegadeth]

The only way they'll get my out of my 2019 G70 is to put the 2.5 or 3.5t engines in the car. The technology isn't enough to suffer a higher monthly bill.

 

[Truck Norris]

The only way I'll get out of my 2019 G70 3.3t is if they remove that absolutely horrible half-gauge cluster....

Whoever signed off on that needs to be fired.

 

[Slip_Angle]

The only way I'll get out of my 2019 G70 3.3t is if they remove that absolutely horrible half-gauge cluster....

Whoever signed off on that needs to be fired.

I agree. I looked at some new 2022s yesterday and really liked some of them but that gauge cluster is so budget. Our daughters Honda civic cluster is far nicer.

 

[JCtx]

Yeah, even the freaking Kona got a fully digital dash, and it's as old as the G70. And the 'lesser' Stinger got the 2.5T. Frustrating.

 

[Ace Deprave]

The only way I'll get out of my 2019 G70 3.3t is if they remove that absolutely horrible half-gauge cluster....

Whoever signed off on that needs to be fired.

That's the way I felt until some jackass ran a red light and totaled my 2019.

It's actually not as bad in person as it was in photos/videos, but it's still not great. Maybe I've just talked myself into thinking so!

 

[YEH]

Lexus will always outsell any Genesis equivalent simply because they have the superior dealer network and inventory to match. The only time this wasn't the case was with the GS (compared to the G80), which was axed anyway because the ES cannibalized all its sales.

Biggest issue right now is supply, and think the new G90 will be another (at least for certain months) if Genesis can get enough inventory here.

When sold as the Genesis sedan (larger dealer network), it handily outsold the GS.

G90 may be at the top of the range, but it is basically just a limo that wealthy Koreans buy to be chauffeured around. Halo car of the brand it is not, especially when performance is considered. When most car guys think of BMW, what pops up first? The 7-series? I doubt it. It is cars like the M3 that folks associate with the Bavarian brand.

As for the Lexus IS, paleez... that poor thing is basically unchanged since 1999. It would be like Genesis still sells the same G70 largely unchanged in 2042. Infiniti is no better. The G-series or later renamed Q40/60 has its major redesign in 2007. They still sell because these are more established name brands and have far better dealer networks than the young upstart Genesis that was only formally branded in 2015.

The G70 line is as important to Genesis as the 3-series is to BMW. It might grow and expand, but it is most definitely not going away.

The real halo car for Genesis is yet to come - mostly likely in the form of a performance coupe, hinted at with the X-Concept. No detail on its powertrain, other than being "EV-based". That, to me, is the fun one to watch for in the near future.

G70 sales have nowhere been where HMG was hoping for.

Aside from scant sales in Korea (where it's the lowest selling model, handily getting outsold by the G90), here, the G70 still gets outsold by the ancient IS.

Furthermore, only until recently, the G70 was handily outsold by the Stinger, sold under a mass market brand and having a far less popular bodystyle (fastback).

While BMW is mostly known for the 3 Series, it's not its halo model) and the G70 is nowhere as important to HMG as the 3 Series is to BMW.

If HMG saw the G70 as being important, they wouldn't be doing a 2nd refresh like what ToyoCo has done for several Lexus models.

And instead, would be accelerating the development of the next gen model like what they have done for the Grandeur (which is facing stiff competitor from the K8).

Sight unseen, the new Grandeur already has 60k+ preorders (that's far more than the entirety of G70 sales worldwide).

Like I had said, the halo right now is the G90, and and maybe the GV90 when it arrives.

Other than that, it could be the midsize - door GT that has been in the works in various forms.

 

[Phastroh]

I see electric cars around sure but fro every electric car I see, I see 500 gas cars. Just because the idiots in government push electric and cause the manufacturers to fall all over themselves to not be the last brand doing electric does not mean they won't have lots full of over-priced cars that nobody can buy.

Let's be serious, a good 65%-75% of the population can't afford a cheap gas car and that is not a slight to them, it is just cars cost a lot and the electrics cost even more and where will people get to charge them efficiently. Friking takes fossil fuels to make the batteries and more to charge them.

It will be a long time before electric cars make it into the majority of homes.

I own a 20 G70 Sport and I just put rims, ADRO kit and other parts on it so not looking to get rid of it anytime soon, plus it has 18k miles on it in near 3 years of driving it so it is worth a lot more than I owe on it. Trading it is will not replace the $7500 I put into it so far either, however I suppose since I leased it I did make more than that back from not driving it the 15k miles I thought I was gonna.

They bother me for it often but they can kiss it if they think I am not gonna buy it for $23k Can you say "tiny payment" anyone

 

[Backslack]

When sold as the Genesis sedan (larger dealer network), it handily outsold the GS.

And the same would happen with the G70 if it was sold at the same old dealer network. That was my point- all Genesis sales are limited by their haphazard puny dealer network. That's why even the more niche Kia Stinger outsells the G70 in the U.S.

If HMG saw the G70 as being important, they wouldn't be doing a 2nd refresh like what ToyoCo has done for several Lexus models.

Again, that's only speculation from a site that has typically been very wrong with most of its predictions.

 

[Volfy]

It's laughable how many times KCB has reported the demise of the Kia Stinger. In some of their articles, they said Kia executives denied these reports, but KCB implied those executives lied in order to sell the remaining Stinger inventory. Well, apparently these executives were telling the truth. Not only is Kia already shipping 2023 models, they added two new packages - GT-Line Apex and GT2 Grand Touring.

Whatever happens to Stinger or G70, I'll believe it when it happens. Until then, it's rather pointless to argue based on hearsay.

 

[Ace Deprave]

Whatever happens to Stinger or G70, I'll believe it when it happens. Until then, it's rather pointless to argue based on hearsay.

It's pretty pointless to argue on internet forums in general!

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[YEH]

And the same would happen with the G70 if it was sold at the same old dealer network. That was my point- all Genesis sales are limited by their haphazard puny dealer network. That's why even the more niche Kia Stinger outsells the G70 in the U.S.

The decline in sales from the Genesis sedan to the G80 had more to do w/ the price increases than the # of dealerships where it was available.

The majority of lux sales are in the 12 largest metro areas and the vast majority of lux sales are in the top 20 metro areas (that's why Cadillac has been trying to get rid of several hundred of its dealerships as they sell less than 30-50 vehicles a year).

Genesis covers those markets; there are more Genesis "dealerships" than Lexus dealerships, so that isn't the reason behind lower than expected G70 sales.

The Genesis sedan sold b/c it offered value in 2 ways - lower price and more interior space than the competition.

The G70 doesn't offer the same value equation as it offers less interior space than the competition.

The GV70 is priced considerably higher than the G70 (even taking into account the CUV "tax") and yet Genesis has trouble meeting demand, resulting in the GV70 having one of the highest ADM in the industry.

There is adequate supply of the G70 and it is by far the heaviest discounted Genesis model.

The G70 was/is a poor seller in its domestic market, but HMG probably see promising prospects for an electric successor to the G70 based on Ioniq 6 sales (which have started w/ a bang) and the Model 3 selling very well in Korea.

 

[Backslack]

Genesis covers those markets; there are more Genesis "dealerships" than Lexus dealerships, so that isn't the reason behind lower than expected G70 sales.

Those "dealerships" are Hyundai ones, not Genesis ones. It's disingenuous to pretend that they have the room to carry the same inventory as a Lexus dealership or really have any sufficient inventory at all. Go look at the national inventory of any Genesis model, they are all far far lower than any equivalent German or Japanese rival.

GV70 and GV80 sales are nowhere near their rivals, despite how popular they are. This same principle applies to the sedans. You can try to come up with different speculative reasons as for why that is, but the universal constant is that they are both sold from the same pathetic dealer network. And that, time and again, has always been Genesis's Achilles heel in the U.S.

The decline in sales from the Genesis sedan to the G80 had more to do w/ the price increases than the # of dealerships where it was available.

This is completely false as the G80's decline started with the last generation, whose sales dropped like a fly the moment the Hyundai dealer spat began and Genesis became its own brand and shrank its dealer network. 2018 was the transition year, and you can clearly see the drop in sales of both the G80 and G90 as they shifted dealer networks.

 

[YEH]

^ H/G dealerships can carry greater Genesis inventory than what they are getting these days.

The problem is on the supply side, esp for the CUVs.

Point is, the fact that they are being sold out of a somewhat reduced # of Hyundai dealerships is not the impediment to greater sales.

If Genesis were offering the G80 at basically the same price as they offered the Genesis sedan, sales of the G80 would be significantly higher (lower G80 sales has little to do w/ the reduction in the# of dealerships where it is offered).

Genesis sales were never going to be as much as the FWD Japanese competition as it is at a different pricepoint (putting aside that Genesis has been outselling Infiniti, but that's more about Infiniti).

If Genesis had the supply, they might be able to match Audi in CUV sales (where the 2 compete); Benz and BMW are a totally other matter as they have far better supply and often better lease deals.

Last Q, buyers were able to get BMW CUVs on avg at 1% under MSRP.

 

[Backslack]

If Genesis were offering the G80 at basically the same price as they offered the Genesis sedan, sales of the G80 would be significantly higher (lower G80 sales has little to do w/ the reduction in the# of dealerships where it is offered).

No they wouldn't. Like I already mentioned, G80 sales sank way back in 2018, back when the price was still that of the Hyundai Genesis and the year the dealer restructuring took place.

It is true that Genesis is hurting on the supply side since unlike every other luxury brand they have to burden all their manufacturing on one factory, but the amount of dealerships is a major factor in how many vehicles Hyundai/Genesis decides to bring to the US, as demonstrated by the amount of dealerships that sold the Hyundai Genesis vs. Genesis G80. The fact remains- Genesis national inventory is significantly lower than any other luxury brand in the U.S. barring outliers like Jaguar or Polestar.

Genesis is willing to take the sales hit because their goal with Genesis has always been to establish standalone dealerships, and they have to do it slowly because of the burden of the Hyundai dealership lawsuits imposed on them.

 

[YEH]

The disastrous dealer restructuring took place in 2016 - hence only 6,166 G80s being sold that year as Genesis was working through state licensing.

W/ that mostly resolved by 2017, sales increased to 16,214.

That's not too far off the 2G Genesis sedan sales when it launched in 2014.

That year, a total of of 29,992 Hyundai Genesis were sold, of which 10,859 were for the coupe, so that makes 19,063 for the sedan.

The next year (full year of sales) was the height of Genesis sedan sales at 24,917 (31,374 total - 6,457 coupe sales).

A drop from around 25k/yr for its 1st full yr of sales to 16.2k for its 4th yr of sale is in line w/ expectations for a model that has hit its midpoint (there also was a not insubstantial price hike of a few thousand $$ to cover the cost of Genesis amenities like "complimentary maintenance" now applicable to the newly christened G80).

The next year, 2018, sales dropped sharply to 7,446 as the model continued to age and as buyers kept switching to CUVs/SUVs.

The Korean market saw a decline of sales from 42,754 in 2016 to 22,284 in 2019 (and that's for a market that still favors sedans).

But sales more than recovered w/ the new G80 w/ 59,464 sales in 2021.

In contrast, US sales have never come close to the 16.2k sales height of the 1G G80 - despite that being for a 4 yr old model.

Last year, there were only 6,031 G80 sales, which isn't even enough to best 1G G80 sales in its 5th and 6th yrs.

While some of the decline is the continuing switch to CUVs/SUVs (and even pickups), much of that is to the even greater price increase (and corresponding lease rates).

 

[Backslack]

You're getting your years mixed up. The G80 was officially MY 2017, so sales started back in August 2016. Prior to that it was the Hyundai Genesis for the 2016 MY, and in 2015 and 2016 the G80/Hyundai Genesis both sold around 30K units total per year.

In 2018 Genesis finally started withdrawing inventory from dealerships and shrinking the network, you'll see a massive drop in monthly sales in the middle of the year for both the G80 and G90. It's also why the G70 got delayed in the US. There was an article posted about this in the Genesis dealership lawsuit thread that I'm too lazy to pull up.

 

[Junkie4god]

Just chiming in here, I scanned quickly and did not see any mention of the G80 electrified. Granted there still is the ICE, but for a mere $30k more you can have an electrified G80. Anyone want 2?

IMHO, the biggest issue is affordability. Currently available luxury models easily top out over $100k US. With the issues in supply chain as well as supply and demand of deliverable vehicles, poaching by the dealers for add ones like full body clear film (2023 Ionic 5 added by dealer for a mere $12k)

With Cadillac on the cusp of launching what could be a $200k+ flagship EV, the prices are going to be a real issue unless you want electric and are ok with a basic Chevy Bolt EV.

One more note, Genesis and Hyundai, at least here in Texas, are requiring dealers to have separate facilities to make Genesis Standalone from their Hyundai and Kia franchises.

But we are also seeing the move to BTO, Build to Order. Kills that impulse buy. I will stick with my 22 G70 Sport Prestige 3.3T. It is a delightful ride, but, the X Concepts are pretty sick looking. So, time will tell.

 

[pulsar]

Just chiming in here, I scanned quickly and did not see any mention of the G80 electrified. Granted there still is the ICE, but for a mere $30k more you can have an electrified G80. Anyone want 2?

IMHO, the biggest issue is affordability. Currently available luxury models easily top out over $100k US. With the issues in supply chain as well as supply and demand of deliverable vehicles, poaching by the dealers for add ones like full body clear film (2023 Ionic 5 added by dealer for a mere $12k)

With Cadillac on the cusp of launching what could be a $200k+ flagship EV, the prices are going to be a real issue unless you want electric and are ok with a basic Chevy Bolt EV.

One more note, Genesis and Hyundai, at least here in Texas, are requiring dealers to have separate facilities to make Genesis Standalone from their Hyundai and Kia franchises.

But we are also seeing the move to BTO, Build to Order. Kills that impulse buy. I will stick with my 22 G70 Sport Prestige 3.3T. It is a delightful ride, but, the X Concepts are pretty sick looking. So, time will tell.

Have not seen a single stand alone Genesis dealer at least here in the DFW area yet. HMC has wanted the stand alone concept for a while, but dealers resisted so if now being forced upon Hyundai dealers to build separate facilities, be interesting what the time line is here and how many Hyundai dealers will just bail on their Genesis line altogether? My Dallas dealer bailed 2 years on his Genesis franchise.

 

[Volfy]

But we are also seeing the move to BTO, Build to Order. Kills that impulse buy.

I've heard that from some industry analysts. Right now, the increase in BTO is mainly due to the shortage. I'd be interested to see if that persists after supply catches up to the demand. My guess is unless mfrs do away with the dealership system entirely, the drive for a competitive edge is still going to push dealers to do speculative order en masse. Advantage will still go to whomever has the largest stock of shiny new cars to choose from and offers the potential of the customer driving one home same day. What's the point of having dealerships if they are all empty parking lots and nothing more than an order kiosk?

Companies like Tesla might have gotten some folks used to the BTO idea, but again that's because their mfg capacities continues to lag behind consumer demand. However, if more than one dealer have the car (color, trim level, options, etc.) you want sitting on their lot, with the same price - or discounted - why would anybody order one and wait 3 months? That's how the dealership system has always worked.

Principle of free economy will always drive supply and demand towards an equilibrium. The current supply chain issues that disrupts that equilibrium won't last forever.

 

[Junkie4god]

Have not seen a single stand alone Genesis dealer at least here in the DFW area yet. HMC has wanted the stand alone concept for a while, but dealers resisted so if now being forced upon Hyundai dealers to build separate facilities, be interesting what the time line is here and how many Hyundai dealers will just bail on their Genesis line altogether? My Dallas dealer bailed 2 years on his Genesis franchise.

@pulsar - Howdy Neighbor! DFW here as well. I was told that by Huffines Hyundai in McKinney. That was the closest dealer to me, over the summer, all the Genesis support staff and facilities were moved to Genesis of Plano; another Huffines dealer. There are references to the split retail model, but one thing is certain, Huffines McKinney cannot service my vehicle. I bought mine from a dealer in Oklahoma as the 2022 G70 Sport Prestige was not making its way to the area as I also definitely wanted AWD and Huffines told me they were no longer being made, allegedly. I stopped in for a check on the subwoofer issue some are seeing and they invited me to see a 2023 Ioniq5 SEL for only $69,000 and saw the 2023 Ioniq5 Limited for a mere $77,000 (previously mentioned full clear protectant installed for $12k).