Genesis 3.8 vs 4.6 throttle response(just test drove 3.8 and R-spec)

[mtrot]

Does anybody know how the 4.6 compares with the 3.8 in terms of throttle response off the line, as well as acceleration from the 20-25mph range?

I've been considering a Genesis purchase for the last month, and finally got around to test driving a couple today. I have to say, I was not that impressed with the power delivery from a stop, or from 20-25 mph with either the 3.8 or the R-Spec. Actually, and disappointingly, it seemed the 3.8 started to get into its power band a little quicker than the 5.0 did. With both of them there wasn't much immediate grunt off the line. And maybe you need to be on the Autobahn, but the R-spec sure didn't seem to me like it had 429hp. For everyday driving, albeit based on a very short duration of driving time, I might actually prefer the driving dynamics of the 3.8 better than the R-spec.

Also, with regard to the accelerator pedal itself, it seemed like after it bottoms out, there is an additional slight amount you can press the pedal which will then effect downshifts. Is that their design? But it takes so long for it to downshift. Honestly, my 2000 Buick Century with the 3.5L 175hp motor jumps off the line almost as well, and downshifts immediately when passing.

Anyway, does anybody know if the dynamics of the 4.6 are any different from the 3.8? I really like the idea of having a V8 engine, but I was kind of hoping it would be noticeably better than the 3.8 in terms of grunt, launch, and passing.

 

[zielritter]

Does anybody know how the 4.6 compares with the 3.8 in terms of throttle response off the line, as well as acceleration from the 20-25mph range?

I've been considering a Genesis purchase for the last month, and finally got around to test driving a couple today. I have to say, I was not that impressed with the power delivery from a stop, or from 20-25 mph with either the 3.8 or the R-Spec. Actually, and disappointingly, it seemed the 3.8 started to get into its power band a little quicker than the 5.0 did. With both of them there wasn't much immediate grunt off the line. And maybe you need to be on the Autobahn, but the R-spec sure didn't seem to me like it had 429hp. For everyday driving, albeit based on a very short duration of driving time, I might actually prefer the driving dynamics of the 3.8 better than the R-spec.

Also, with regard to the accelerator pedal itself, it seemed like after it bottoms out, there is an additional slight amount you can press the pedal which will then effect downshifts. Is that their design? But it takes so long for it to downshift. Honestly, my 2000 Buick Century with the 3.5L 175hp motor jumps off the line almost as well, and downshifts immediately when passing.

Anyway, does anybody know if the dynamics of the 4.6 are any different from the 3.8? I really like the idea of having a V8 engine, but I was kind of hoping it would be noticeably better than the 3.8 in terms of grunt, launch, and passing.

I can speak to my 3.8, but I think V8 guys are seeing similar behavior.

Yes, on all accounts. My 3.8l does not jump off the line quickly at all, but picks up steam quickly after it gets going. I figure if the throttle response was better I could get 5s flat 0-60 instead of the 5.4s I'm getting currently.

I've noticed from Youtube that even the new Azera catapults off the line whereas the Genesis creeps up to speed for a half second from a stop. My guesses are:
1) Drive train protection measures
2) Improved fuel Economy measures

Yes, there is a slight extra bit of travel in the pedal which will cause an instant downshift of 2-3 gears on the highway. It's a rocket on the highway, but I feel like it's being held back from a dig.

 

[mtrot]

I can speak to my 3.8.

Yes, on all accounts. My 3.8l does not jump off the line quickly at all, but picks up steam quickly after it gets going. I figure if the throttle response was better I could get 5s flat 0-60 instead of the 5.4s I'm getting currently.

I've noticed from Youtube that even the new Azera catapults off the line whereas the Genesis creeps up to speed for a half second from a stop. My guesses are:
1) Drive train protection measures
2) Improved fuel Economy measures

Yes, there is a slight extra bit of travel in the pedal which will cause an instant downshift of 2-3 gears on the highway. It's a rocket on the highway, but I feel like it's being held back from a dig.

Hey thanks for the quick reply. I've found a great deal on a 2012 Genesis 4.6, but I have not actually driven a 4.6. The one I found is a day's drive from here, so I'd like a bit of input before I make the drive.

 

[zielritter]

Hey thanks for the quick reply. I've found a great deal on a 2012 Genesis 4.6, but I have not actually driven a 4.6. The one I found is a day's drive from here, so I'd like a bit of input before I make the drive.

From what I've read from people's experiences you're not going to see a huge difference 0-60 between the 2012 3.8 and the 4.6l. Once up to high speeds though apparently the V8s are better able to sustain power.

That being said I think many will tell you that unless you are getting the base 3.8 or you really care about the extra 2-3 mpg highway, you're better off getting the V8. I think the loaded price difference is relatively minimal between the two engines.

 

[landtuna]

Does anybody know how the 4.6 compares with the 3.8 in terms of throttle response off the line, as well as acceleration from the 20-25mph range?

I'm confused. The R-spec is a 5.0 V8 not a 4.6 - two different engines.

I had a 3.8 V6 in my Santa Fe and it was very quick off the line (6 spd auto). In fact, it was too touchy and you had to be very careful when putting your foot in it moving away from a stop. The Genny (R-spec) is very different, especially in reverse. It required much more throttle movement to get going from a dead stop than did the SF. Once underway though it will move like the wind.

I only have 2,500 miles on the Genny and have only had one instance when it seemed as if I needed to apply much more throttle pedal than usual to move from a stop. I generally drive with a light foot so perhaps the adaptive mechanics are making adjustments for me. It was a bit unnerving when it happened but it hasn't happened again. It also comes to mind that both me and the wifey drive the Genny and she is much more forceful on the gas than I. We may have confused the adaptive technology with our very different driving styles.

Bear in mind that the Genny is a heavy sedan and will not shoot off the line like a sports car. If you are already rolling down the highway though it will pick up speed very quickly and smoothly. I have never needed to downshift when passing.

I actually thought long and hard about trading the SF for the Genny but I've come to the time in my life where I can afford a bit of plush and dazzle so I pulled the trigger on the Genny. The SF was a very responsive vehicle though and I would have been very happy with it had the Genny not been a temptation.

 

[Mark_888]

I'm confused. The R-spec is a 5.0 V8 not a 4.6 - two different engines.

The 5.0 is a bored-out Tau 4.6 with GDI added.

 

[Mark_888]

From what I've read from people's experiences you're not going to see a huge difference 0-60 between the 2012 3.8 and the 4.6l. Once up to high speeds though apparently the V8s are better able to sustain power.

That being said I think many will tell you that unless you are getting the base 3.8 or you really care about the extra 2-3 mpg highway, you're better off getting the V8. I think the loaded price difference is relatively minimal between the two engines.

The 3.8 is about 200 lbs lighter on the front end, so it handles better (better F/R weight ratio) and is a bit more nimble.

 

[mtrot]

I'm confused. The R-spec is a 5.0 V8 not a 4.6 - two different engines.

I had a 3.8 V6 in my Santa Fe and it was very quick off the line (6 spd auto). In fact, it was too touchy and you had to be very careful when putting your foot in it moving away from a stop. The Genny (R-spec) is very different, especially in reverse. It required much more throttle movement to get going from a dead stop than did the SF. Once underway though it will move like the wind.

I only have 2,500 miles on the Genny and have only had one instance when it seemed as if I needed to apply much more throttle pedal than usual to move from a stop. I generally drive with a light foot so perhaps the adaptive mechanics are making adjustments for me. It was a bit unnerving when it happened but it hasn't happened again. It also comes to mind that both me and the wifey drive the Genny and she is much more forceful on the gas than I. We may have confused the adaptive technology with our very different driving styles.

Bear in mind that the Genny is a heavy sedan and will not shoot off the line like a sports car. If you are already rolling down the highway though it will pick up speed very quickly and smoothly. I have never needed to downshift when passing.

I actually thought long and hard about trading the SF for the Genny but I've come to the time in my life where I can afford a bit of plush and dazzle so I pulled the trigger on the Genny. The SF was a very responsive vehicle though and I would have been very happy with it had the Genny not been a temptation.

Thanks, I was only able to drive the 5.0 and the 3.8, but I figure the 4.6 is closer to the 5.0 than the 3.8 in its driving dynamics. If anybody has experience with the 4.6 and can comment, I'd appreciate that very much.

Also, you mentioned "adaptive technology", which I assume "learns" how you like to drive the car. Since the cars I drove are brand new on the sales lot, perhaps the default settings are very non-aggressive mapping.

 

[landtuna]

Thanks, I was only able to drive the 5.0 and the 3.8, but I figure the 4.6 is closer to the 5.0 than the 3.8 in its driving dynamics. If anybody has experience with the 4.6 and can comment, I'd appreciate that very much.

Also, you mentioned "adaptive technology", which I assume "learns" how you like to drive the car. Since the cars I drove are brand new on the sales lot, perhaps the default settings are very non-aggressive mapping.

I might add that my cousin bought a 3.8 Genny about the same time as I bought mine. I loaned him my car during a visit a few months ago and he mentioned that the R-spec did appear to have more power although the 3.8 seemed satisfactory to him. He also noticed the difference in ride with the R-spec being a bit harsher than the 3.8.

Although the additional power intrigued me the main reason I bought the R-spec was the tighter suspension. My previous car, a Toyota Avalon, was more of a plush "floater" down the road and I prefer a tighter ride.

 

[BacktoHyundaibychoice]

Thanks, I was only able to drive the 5.0 and the 3.8, but I figure the 4.6 is closer to the 5.0 than the 3.8 in its driving dynamics. If anybody has experience with the 4.6 and can comment, I'd appreciate that very much.

Also, you mentioned "adaptive technology", which I assume "learns" how you like to drive the car. Since the cars I drove are brand new on the sales lot, perhaps the default settings are very non-aggressive mapping.

Experience with the 4.6:
Had it in my '09 Genesis and have it in my '11 Equus. No complaints, award winning engine, but I suspect that you'd find it lacking off the line. I'd suggest you go back and try the 5.0 or 3.8 in Sport mode. It's a world of difference from a dead stop. My 4.6 kicks ass in Sport too.

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[Jimmmmbo!]

mtrot:

I think you're just experiencing the incessant desire of Hyundai (and every other manufacturer) to try and post the highest MPG numbers that they can. Therefore, there are a lot of things going on that just isn't in our immediate control, and I doubt the 4.6 will be significantly different.

Yep, there is plenty of adaptive programming going on to adjust to the driver's style, probably mostly to appease the EPA testers driving the car.

On my '12 3.8, I find one the biggest annoyances to be the unwillingness of the car to shift into 1st upon rolling up to a stop sign or stoplight (yes, I'm readily admitting I don't always make a "full and complete stop" at stop signs). Unless you're literally crawling the car will stay in 3rd to try and maintain the gear for higher MPG. Annoying.

On the side, you mentioned your 2000 Century V6. There are many things that likely differentiate it from the Genesis (V6 or V8). I'll mention just two:
- Drive-by-wire: The computer today is in full control of all aspects of computer control of the car, including acceleration and deceleration
- Overhead Camshaft (OHC) vs Overhead Valve (OHV) engines: OHC is now the mainstream and typically lacks the low RPM torque ("head-snapping grunt") of OHV. However, once the engine gets up and going, the OHC typically performs better than the OHV (the OHV will "run out of breath" at higher RPMs). There are many more differences and ways that manufacturers try to deal with them in each specific application.

 

[mtrot]

Experience with the 4.6:
Had it in my '09 Genesis and have it in my '11 Equus. No complaints, award winning engine, but I suspect that you'd find it lacking off the line. I'd suggest you go back and try the 5.0 or 3.8 in Sport mode. It's a world of difference from a dead stop. My 4.6 kicks ass in Sport too.

Oh shoot. So there are different driving modes on the 2012 4.6? That's good to know, and I should have known that about the 3.8 and 5.0 I drove today! I wish I had tried sport mode, and also that the salesman had pointed it out, although he may not have even known.

 

[mtrot]

mtrot:

I think you're just experiencing the incessant desire of Hyundai (and every other manufacturer) to try and post the highest MPG numbers that they can. Therefore, there are a lot of things going on that just isn't in our immediate control, and I doubt the 4.6 will be significantly different.

Yep, there is plenty of adaptive programming going on to adjust to the driver's style, probably mostly to appease the EPA testers driving the car.

On my '12 3.8, I find one the biggest annoyances to be the unwillingness of the car to shift into 1st upon rolling up to a stop sign or stoplight (yes, I'm readily admitting I don't always make a "full and complete stop" at stop signs). Unless you're literally crawling the car will stay in 3rd to try and maintain the gear for higher MPG. Annoying.

On the side, you mentioned your 2000 Century V6. There are many things that likely differentiate it from the Genesis (V6 or V8). I'll mention just two:
- Drive-by-wire: The computer today is in full control of all aspects of computer control of the car, including acceleration and deceleration
- Overhead Camshaft (OHC) vs Overhead Valve (OHV) engines: OHC is now the mainstream and typically lacks the low RPM torque ("head-snapping grunt") of OHV. However, once the engine gets up and going, the OHC typically performs better than the OHV (the OHV will "run out of breath" at higher RPMs). There are many more differences and ways that manufacturers try to deal with them in each specific application.

Yeah, I think I noticed that today driving the 3.8 and the 5.0. Unless I came to a dead stop, it seemed like the cars were in a pretty high gear. I did come to a complete stop with both of them in a parking lot and stomped on them a bit and they both spun the rear wheels a bit. Surprisingly, it seemed like the 3.8 spun them just as much as the 5.0, but I didn't stay on the gas long.

 

[zielritter]

The 3.8 is about 200 lbs lighter on the front end, so it handles better (better F/R weight ratio) and is a bit more nimble.

That too. Isn't the 3.8 electro-hydraulic versus all electric for the Tau? I think that gives a slightly different feel as well.

 

[1FstYota]

It all boils down to how the car is tuned from the factory with the Drive by Wire, if you can somehow get a aftermarket full standalone ecu or even data log how it behaves on the stock ecu, it's probably based on how much input you give it and how it repsonds to opening so you don't drive aroudn in a powerful car looking like a young kid learning how to drive a stick shift.

 

[zielritter]

Experience with the 4.6:
Had it in my '09 Genesis and have it in my '11 Equus. No complaints, award winning engine, but I suspect that you'd find it lacking off the line. I'd suggest you go back and try the 5.0 or 3.8 in Sport mode. It's a world of difference from a dead stop. My 4.6 kicks ass in Sport too.

I don't think this is accurately referred to as "sport mode"? Unless I'm mistaken "Shiftronic" mode simply gives you the ability to pick and hold a gear. I don't believe it shifts any faster and my acceleration tests seems to back that conclusion up. There was no discernible in acceleration from a dig or intermediary shifts between normal "D" and Shiftronic.

I just don't want to confuse the OP with misleading information.

 

[zielritter]

It all boils down to how the car is tuned from the factory with the Drive by Wire, if you can somehow get a aftermarket full standalone ecu or even data log how it behaves on the stock ecu, it's probably based on how much input you give it and how it repsonds to opening so you don't drive aroudn in a powerful car looking like a young kid learning how to drive a stick shift.

I know Sprint Booster was thrown around here early on as a potential way to improve throttle response. Thoughts? I know it's the same as simply mashing the pedal further, so it may do nothing for off the line lagginess.

 

[1FstYota]

I know Sprint Booster was thrown around here early on as a potential way to improve throttle response. Thoughts? I know it's the same as simply mashing the pedal further, so it may do nothing for off the line lagginess.

I hear ya on the off the line lag, the bmw 745i I owned before did the same, but there was a chip you can add that cured most of it. But the genny might be more to it than that, maybe overly aggressive esc mode, that really limits power on take off to prevent spin? I know it seem like it felt a bit snappier with esc off.

Whose brave enough to drop 8k on a Motec M800 setup with DBW option and a custom harness and maybe my tuner can figure it out lol.

 

[Mark_888]

That too. Isn't the 3.8 electro-hydraulic versus all electric for the Tau? I think that gives a slightly different feel as well.

I think you are referring to the power steering technology used on the Genesis. Actually, the V8 uses electro-hydraulic power steering, and the V6 uses normal hydraulic power steering. Electro-hydraulic power steering uses an electric motor to power the hydraulic system instead of using an engine drive belt, so the electro-hydraulic system helps a little with MPG. I cannot prove anything, but my suspicion is that any perceived steering difference between V8 and V6 steering has more to due with the extra 200 lbs on the front end of the V8 than with a difference in the steering mechanism.

There are some newer cars that use pure electronic power steering, but those are a bit controversial in the enthusiast community with regard to steering "feel."

 

[Rey]

I am driving my fourth (4th) Genesis - a 2013 V6. I have owned two 4.6s and an RSpec.
I don't think there are huge differences in drivability. They are all good, though the V8 has very large torque management in first gear and maybe even second. Both the V8 and V6 have nice power off the line, but not drag strip power. The torque managment in the RSpec makes its off line performance just about the equal of the V6.
I can report that Hyundai has issued new software for the eight speed transmission. Perhaps this new software addresses our complaints. Can't report on its effect, but I had my RSpec transmission replaced with a spanking new (not remanufactured) 2013 transmission, which drove like a dream. Shifting was smooth and it did not take pining the throttle to downshift. Could downshift a gear at a time with just throttle action.
I changed to the 3.8 V6 recently because I just wasn't using the big power of the RSpec so much (I'm a geezer); and like the driving feel of the 3.8, which carries 200lb less weight over the front wheels.
BTW, Hyundai has had enough warranty problems with the eight speed that they now have an inventory of remanufactured transmissions, presumably remanufactured from warranty returns. In my case the dealer installed a remanufactured transmission under warranty (obviously after my transmission failed), and the remanufactured transmission was itself defective. Hyundai graciously then found a new transmission (the only one in N. America) and air shipped to my dealer.