Genesis 5.0 handling characteristics.

[Penguin]

Sorry to be the new guy no one has heard of asking questions, but a search didn't bring up as much detail as I would have liked.

So here goes:

My wife and I are going to be in the market early to mid next year for a new car, and the Genesis is on our list. We have test driven one, a 3.8L V6 AWD model, and were impressed with the features content and materials and build quality but really underwhelmed by the lack of power and the numb steering and chassis. The dealer we visited did not have a V8 model in stock, and has no plans to bring one in given the market up here is not kind to RWD cars.

I see that the Genesis with the 5.0L V8 also has an optional continuous damping control system. Between the extra power, and the upgraded suspension it might meet our goals for something that is involving to drive. So for those that have driven both the 3.8L and the 5.0L, does the optional suspension change the dynamics of the car very much?

So far our other top contender for vehicles that we have test driven so far (I can't believe I'm saying this) is a Chevrolet SS. For those unfamiliar the SS is a large RWD sedan made by Holden in Australia and then imported by GM and sold as a Chevrolet. The chassis tuning is decidedly sporting, and the car has loads of grip and very precise communicative steering for a car of that size. Very fun to drive, but not quite as nice on the inside as the Genesis. Chevrolet has this car equipped with their ubiquitous and excellent 6.2L LS3 V8 making a "claimed" 415hp (probably more but they will not step on the Camaro SS's toes) and 415lb-ft of torque, and a 6 speed auto with paddle shifters. Braking is supplied by Brembo. So we have two very different cars under consideration, one a luxury car, the other a hair on fire performance car that has 4 doors and a real back seat. The 2015 version of this car will see some improvement such as standard Magnetic Ride Control, and a few other minor tweaks.

Normally I would simply rule out the Genesis due to it being way too soft, and understeering like a pig, but I didn't get to drive the V8 model with its better suspension. Plus I really liked the amenities. I want the SS power and handling with the Genesis level of luxury or a good balance of the two.

So again for those that test drove both the 3.8L and the 5.0L how is the handling between the two? I don't expect the Genesis V8 to be as strong as the LS3 (displacement does matter) but it doesn't have to be, it just has to be close.

 

[jimb100]

The 5.0 makes good power and is a different driving experience compared to the 3.8 in terms of low end torque. Its not going to produce the off idle response like the 6.2 L and the car does weigh 4600 lbs but its still pretty good. The mid range improves and despite the variable valve timing the 5.0 feels like its "coming on the cams" after 3500 rpm. Even the exhaust note changes.

The 8 speed trans is no dual clutch but its very smooth. Sport mode firms up the shift points if that's what you're looking for but in a car like this doesn't add much to the experience. Banging the shifts in a car this size doesn't feel appropriate, not that it really reduces the shift times all that much but they are quicker in sport mode.

Handling is OK, not great. Its good for a car this size and with the 5.0 you can steer with the accelerator but you wouldn't buy this car to drift. The transition from understeer to oversteer is leisurely and there's a bit more body roll than I care for. Actually, its nothing a few more millimeters on the sway bars wouldn't improve. But then, I've fitted bigger sway bars to everything I've owned the last few years to include an 04 Corvette. The sways in my Z51 C6 were fine.

The shocks and springs are OK and control the ride pretty well, maintaining a good compromise between ride quality and steering feel and control.

Bottom line, there are a few things that stand between this car and a full on sports sedan. The one that can't be changed is the bulk. Its a big car that weighs 4600 pounds and the suspension is tuned more to ride quality.

I expect that if someone comes out with upgraded sways and some sort of front end connector the feel would improve but there's no changing the bulk.

But what you have in the car the way it is is a big, good looking, well equipped cruiser that handles pretty well, has very good fit, finish and material quality, at a very reasonable price. Also, a great warranty and a pretty solid chassis.

I don't think the big Chevy will give the refinements and materials but the LS engine is a heck of a motor. Great HP, small size, good gas mileage, lots fewer moving parts than the dohc and great reliability. At heart, its a small block Chevy but as refined as any 5 L dohc.

I bought the Genesis 5.0 and I have no regrets, its the type of car I wanted, now. I, quite honestly, wouldn't buy the Chevy. If I wanted something sportier I'd go back a couple of years and get an Audi S6 and buy the extended warranty for as long as I planned on keeping the car. You can probably find a real nice 2012 for the same price as the Genesis 5.0.

 

[Mark_888]

I would check out the reviews of 2015 Genesis. There is a thread on this forum with links to many of them. Generally, the reviewers reviewed both the V6 and V8.

From what I recall in the reviews, the V8 Ultimate Trim suspension in sport mode is fairly firm. But the car is relatively heavy, so that may affect a direct comparison of the handling versus lighter cars.

 

[Alwaysforward]

I purchased the 5.0 Ultimate and have no regrets. It is by far the best car I have ever owned and driven.

The ability to adjust the drive modes and actually feel the difference is amazing. I highly recommend you do a search in your area for a 5.0 Ultimate and drive it. You will not be disappointed.

 

[scottdk]

Someone else did a comparison between the R Spec Genesis and Chevy SS.

Read that here.

http://genesisowners.com/hyundai-genesis-forum/showthread.php?t=13641&highlight=genesis+chevy

 

[thymer]

If you are looking for a sports sedan this is not it. If you are looking for a comfortable fast mile eater this is the one. As a point of reference my 2015 5.0 replaced a 740i Sport. I also am familiar with the track and have a dedicated turbo'd miata for that fun. I love the Genesis and it handles well but it is kinda numb. The 740 is heavy too but you get much more feel. I haven't experienced understeer but a) those tires are pretty sticky and b) I'm probably not going to drive the Genesis to understeer.

 

[Penguin]

Thanks for the reply's everyone. Looks like I got some good honest feedback, which leaves me with the need to a.) decide what type of sedan we want, and b.) find a V8 Genesis to test drive if possible to see if it meets that expectation.

 

[Penguin]

Someone else did a comparison between the R Spec Genesis and Chevy SS.

Read that here.

http://genesisowners.com/hyundai-genesis-forum/showthread.php?t=13641&highlight=genesis+chevy

I actually did read through that thread, but since I am not interested in the 2014 Genesis at all it really didn't tell me much about the 2015 car and how it will handle. Performance wise the Chevrolet is easily the faster car in a strait line, faster around a corner, quicker to stop and generally straining at the leash like a sports car all the time. The downside is that the ride is pretty firm, and the tires do generate a fair amount of road noise (Bridgestone RE-050's are just noisy on every car I've ever experienced with them). Which is a lot of fun when you want to drive like a juvenile delinquent (which is more often than I should admit to....), but might not be so endearing on a 1000 mile road trip.

Otherwise both are very roomy sedans that will seat real adults and carry useful amounts of luggage, and both have comfortable seats (wife actually preferred the seats in the SS ever so slightly). The Genesis did have a more refined interior where fit and finish are concerned, and the infotainment system in the Genesis is the better unit in my opinion. Both cars we looked at had the heads up display, and both were equally worthless in daytime wearing polarized sunglasses, although I'll give the SS a slight advantage because you could adjust where on the windshield the display landed. The Genesis we drove was noticeably quieter, and of course compliance over pavement defects was better, the tradeoff being more body roll in hard corners and a tendency towards understeer where the SS was very neutral and flat cornering.

No matter what we decide on I will say that I was shocked with both cars. If someone had told me 10 years ago that I would be considering a Chevrolet and Hyundai as my next car I would probably laugh in their face. For what they are both are a screaming deal given what they offer in equipment (both), refinement (Genesis), and performance (SS).

 

[italiabrain]

Just as an FYI the HUD on the Genesis is adjustable for height, content, and for the color of some parts.

 

[Nikgen]

I actually did read through that thread, but since I am not interested in the 2014 Genesis at all it really didn't tell me much about the 2015 car and how it will handle. Performance wise the Chevrolet is easily the faster car in a strait line, faster around a corner, quicker to stop and generally straining at the leash like a sports car all the time. The downside is that the ride is pretty firm, and the tires do generate a fair amount of road noise (Bridgestone RE-050's are just noisy on every car I've ever experienced with them). Which is a lot of fun when you want to drive like a juvenile delinquent (which is more often than I should admit to....), but might not be so endearing on a 1000 mile road trip.

Otherwise both are very roomy sedans that will seat real adults and carry useful amounts of luggage, and both have comfortable seats (wife actually preferred the seats in the SS ever so slightly). The Genesis did have a more refined interior where fit and finish are concerned, and the infotainment system in the Genesis is the better unit in my opinion. Both cars we looked at had the heads up display, and both were equally worthless in daytime wearing polarized sunglasses, although I'll give the SS a slight advantage because you could adjust where on the windshield the display landed.

The Genesis HUD is vertically adjustable as well - and much nicer, customizable than the one in my brother-in-law's 2014 Camaro (assuming all Chevy HUD's are similar?).

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[Penguin]

OK good info on the HUD. I Wasn't overly impressed with either of them since my Maui Jims pretty much block both down to an utterly useless level during daylight hours.

 

[Nikgen]

OK good info on the HUD. I Wasn't overly impressed with either of them since my Maui Jims pretty much block both down to an utterly useless level during daylight hours.

All HUD's will have this issue as they are reflections that polarized sunglasses are designed to eliminate. Get a pair of non-polarized sunglasses as the HUD is really a valuable diving aid!

 

[Penguin]

All HUD's will have this issue as they are reflections that polarized sunglasses are designed to eliminate. Get a pair of non-polarized sunglasses as the HUD is really a valuable diving aid!

Blocking glare is a more useful driving aid to me, so I'll stick with polarized sunglasses. The quality of the HUD on either car is not likely to sway my final decision either way to be honest.

The best HUD I've ever used was that found on the BMW M5 and M6 (used to sell them) which featured only a digital speed readout and a color coded tachometer sweep that went from green to orange to red on the sweep indicating when to shift. Simple and uncluttered, and for some reason bright enough it showed up better in polarized lenses.

 

[Nikgen]

Blocking glare is a more useful driving aid to me, so I'll stick with polarized sunglasses. The quality of the HUD on either car is not likely to sway my final decision either way to be honest.

The best HUD I've ever used was that found on the BMW M5 and M6 (used to sell them) which featured only a digital speed readout and a color coded tachometer sweep that went from green to orange to red on the sweep indicating when to shift. Simple and uncluttered, and for some reason bright enough it showed up better in polarized lenses.

No that it likely matters to you, but you can unclutter the HUD to your liking through the menus as well as adjust the brightness and color!

 

[lobsenza]

I looked at the SS. It is definitely the sports car of the 2. But, it is not nearly as refined as the Genesis. I did not think the interior was as nice. The ultimate driver's seat is excellent and I believe is more adjustable. I did not like the manual adjustment of the steering column on the SS.

I also did not like the 6 speed automatic and gas mileage of the SS as compared to the Genesis.

There is over 1 second difference in the 0-60 time of the V8 vs the V6. The V8 goes 0-60 in 5.2 seconds.

The Genesis is much sportier in the Sport mode. But, it will not be nearly as sporty as the SS.

I expect you should be able to find a V8 to test drive if you look a little. Try the Hyundai Inventory search. it is only partially accurate, but it should help.

So, it is a question of what is a higher priority to you?

 

[ksoze]

Blocking glare is a more useful driving aid to me, so I'll stick with polarized sunglasses.

Pilots face the same issue and there are options that work for glare and instrument display - Serengeti Drivers are superb and there is a reason many pilots wear them for flying and driving.

 

[jjsC6]

The 5.0 makes good power and is a different driving experience compared to the 3.8 in terms of low end torque. Its not going to produce the off idle response like the 6.2 L and the car does weigh 4600 lbs but its still pretty good. The mid range improves and despite the variable valve timing the 5.0 feels like its "coming on the cams" after 3500 rpm. Even the exhaust note changes.

The 8 speed trans is no dual clutch but its very smooth. Sport mode firms up the shift points if that's what you're looking for but in a car like this doesn't add much to the experience. Banging the shifts in a car this size doesn't feel appropriate, not that it really reduces the shift times all that much but they are quicker in sport mode.

Handling is OK, not great. Its good for a car this size and with the 5.0 you can steer with the accelerator but you wouldn't buy this car to drift. The transition from understeer to oversteer is leisurely and there's a bit more body roll than I care for. Actually, its nothing a few more millimeters on the sway bars wouldn't improve. But then, I've fitted bigger sway bars to everything I've owned the last few years to include an 04 Corvette. The sways in my Z51 C6 were fine.

The shocks and springs are OK and control the ride pretty well, maintaining a good compromise between ride quality and steering feel and control.

Bottom line, there are a few things that stand between this car and a full on sports sedan. The one that can't be changed is the bulk. Its a big car that weighs 4600 pounds and the suspension is tuned more to ride quality.

I expect that if someone comes out with upgraded sways and some sort of front end connector the feel would improve but there's no changing the bulk.

But what you have in the car the way it is is a big, good looking, well equipped cruiser that handles pretty well, has very good fit, finish and material quality, at a very reasonable price. Also, a great warranty and a pretty solid chassis.

I don't think the big Chevy will give the refinements and materials but the LS engine is a heck of a motor. Great HP, small size, good gas mileage, lots fewer moving parts than the dohc and great reliability. At heart, its a small block Chevy but as refined as any 5 L dohc.

I bought the Genesis 5.0 and I have no regrets, its the type of car I wanted, now. I, quite honestly, wouldn't buy the Chevy. If I wanted something sportier I'd go back a couple of years and get an Audi S6 and buy the extended warranty for as long as I planned on keeping the car. You can probably find a real nice 2012 for the same price as the Genesis 5.0.

You had me right up until the good gas mileage on the SS? No, it does not. It does in the Corvette, but not the SS. I had four C6 Corvettes including 2 LS2s, one LS3, and one LS7. It is a great engine, but they should have put the newer LT1 and eight speed in the SS. I would be buying one if they did. The SS does not get any better mileage than a new Pickup truck with similar power but the newer engine technology.

 

[Penguin]

Let's be realistic here, the Genesis V8 also gets atrocious EPA fuel economy.

I'm not buying a Prius...

 

[jimb100]

You had me right up until the good gas mileage on the SS? No, it does not. It does in the Corvette, but not the SS. I had four C6 Corvettes including 2 LS2s, one LS3, and one LS7. It is a great engine, but they should have put the newer LT1 and eight speed in the SS. I would be buying one if they did. The SS does not get any better mileage than a new Pickup truck with similar power but the newer engine technology.

I never said the 6.2 would get any specific mileage in the Chevy SS. I said it gets good gas mileage, as in, its fuel efficient.

Are you saying you don't believe this engine is fuel efficient for its horsepower output?

And really, what is it that you want so badly in the LT1, cylinder deactivation? And you do realize the extra 2 gears in the 8 speed are for fuel economy?

So what you're saying is that you'd buy a muscle car with a 6.2 L V8 if only it got a couple of more miles per gallon?

 

[jjsC6]

I never said the 6.2 would get any specific mileage in the Chevy SS. I said it gets good gas mileage, as in, its fuel efficient.

Are you saying you don't believe this engine is fuel efficient for its horsepower output?

And really, what is it that you want so badly in the LT1, cylinder deactivation? And you do realize the extra 2 gears in the 8 speed are for fuel economy?

So what you're saying is that you'd buy a muscle car with a 6.2 L V8 if only it got a couple of more miles per gallon?

The LT1 is more fuel efficient due to direct injection, cylinder deactivation and other efficiency improvements, and yes, the eight speed adds even more. The difference would likely be 4mpg on average. I don't even pay for my gas, my company does. But I buy the car and my concern is resale on a car rated at 21 on the freeway. My BMW 550 is rated at 25 on the freeway and I easily get at least 27 on it on long trips with primarily highway driving.

My experience with American made sedans is poor resale value. I believe that if gas goes back to $4.00 a gallon the SS will be hard to sell. GM has a horrible track record of coming out with niche vehicles with previous generation engines. GTO, SSR, Pontiac G8 come to mind. I loved the LS3 in my Corvette, but that was in 2007. Technology has moved on and I don't want to buy a new car with old car technology.