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[Husky]

Also need to think what will happen to all the dangerous waste created by dead or defective batteries in these vehicles? Also, will there be enough resources be available to make the batteries and will the quality of these batteries be top notch or will some manufacturers rush to make them (lower standards) and create a more dangerous situations down the road?

When discussing the environmental hazards, let's not forget about all of the huge, horrible oil spills that have occurred in the last 50 years, devastating marine life, to provide the world with gasoline. Or that every car out there has a lead acid battery that needs to be disposed of about every five years, and has been for nearly a century. Or the enormous global problem of climate change due to emissions that we're all now witnessing in real time, that is driving this whole EV transition.
Every technology has its challenges, we're just used to the one we've been using all of our lives.

 

[Husky]

Let's also not forget that the world used leaded gasoline for decades. Talk about hazardous. That was hardly a "perfect world".

 

[joegr]

When discussing the environmental hazards, let's not forget about all of the huge, horrible oil spills that have occurred in the last 50 years, devastating marine life, to provide the world with gasoline. Or that every car out there has a lead acid battery that needs to be disposed of about every five years, and has been for nearly a century. Or the enormous global problem of climate change due to emissions that we're all now witnessing in real time, that is driving this whole EV transition.
Every technology has its challenges, we're just used to the one we've been using all of our lives.

Even if/when all ICE (not just cars) are replaced by electric motors, we will still need oil. It is used to make a lot of things, including plastics.
Lead-acid batteries can be and are fully recycled. The lithium battery packs in electric cars, not as much.
The major emissions that you are talking about are much more from 3rd world power plants than ICE cars.

I'm not arguing against improvements, and I think that electric cars can be an improvement (eventually). I'm just saying that it is naive to think that the switchover to electric cars is by itself going to solve any problems.

 

[Mcc]

Even if/when all ICE (not just cars) are replaced by electric motors, we will still need oil. It is used to make a lot of things, including plastics.
Lead-acid batteries can be and are fully recycled. The lithium battery packs in electric cars, not as much.
The major emissions that you are talking about are much more from 3rd world power plants than ICE cars.

I'm not arguing against improvements, and I think that electric cars can be an improvement (eventually). I'm just saying that it is naive to think that the switchover to electric cars is by itself going to solve any problems.

Lets take this idea on step farther. Of course it is nice to live in a place that is sunny most of the time and you can use solar power or near a river for hydroelectric power, BUT if you don't live near one of these places, what do you think is going to power those electric generators?

 

[joegr]

Lets take this idea on step farther. Of course it is nice to live in a place that is sunny most of the time and you can use solar power or near a river for hydroelectric power, BUT if you don't live near one of these places, what do you think is going to power those electric generators?

Coal power plants are the cheapest and quickest to build.

 

[Mcc]

Coal power plants are the cheapest and quickest to build.

Sure. So my point is think about the hit on the environment to supply the electricity to charge all these electrified car.

 

[KusaKusa]

Honestly, I wouldn't bother arguing with anti-EV crowd. It's always going to be bringing up any sort of downside as if they're disqualifiers entirely, not contextualizing upside/downside magnitude of change especially vs the sheer scale of current gas/oil, putting the burden of proof on change instead of how bad current systems and climate change are, and arguing in bad faith when they have no intention of changing their minds. These types are prevalent on all the car forums I visit.

 

[EdP]

Also need to think what will happen to all the dangerous waste created by dead or defective batteries in these vehicles? Also, will there be enough resources be available to make the batteries and will the quality of these batteries be top notch or will some manufacturers rush to make them (lower standards) and create a more dangerous situations down the road?

Hopefully technology and science will fix some of that. One of the things that needs to be done is have proper facilities and technique to recycle batteries to reclaim critical materials and make is more sustainable.

I've also read that to eliminate the lithium, both zinc and aluminum are promising. My guess is that is still years away though.

None of this is free or easy.

 

[EdP]

Sure. So my point is think about the hit on the environment to supply the electricity to charge all these electrified car.

Some coal plants are being deactivated, replaced by cleaner energy. If the demand increases, they may have to be activated again to keep up.

It is much more efficient to make a given amount of useful energy in a power plant than an ICE that typically is 25% efficient. Some of that efficiency is lost in transmission though.

 

[Mcc]

In other words, don’t confuse me with the facts, my mind is made up.

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[SuperKing]

EV batteries don't need to be recycled right away. They still have plenty of life left to be used as grid storage and a lot of places are planning for that already. By the time the batteries are actually dead, recycling methods should have caught up. Always reuse before you recycle.

 

[Husky]

Lets take this idea on step farther. Of course it is nice to live in a place that is sunny most of the time and you can use solar power or near a river for hydroelectric power, BUT if you don't live near one of these places, what do you think is going to power those electric generators?

It's called a power grid for a reason.

 

[Husky]

Even if/when all ICE (not just cars) are replaced by electric motors, we will still need oil. It is used to make a lot of things, including plastics.
Lead-acid batteries can be and are fully recycled. The lithium battery packs in electric cars, not as much.
The major emissions that you are talking about are much more from 3rd world power plants than ICE cars.

I'm not arguing against improvements, and I think that electric cars can be an improvement (eventually). I'm just saying that it is naive to think that the switchover to electric cars is by itself going to solve any problems.

I'm not suggesting that EV's are a cure-all, but they are an important step. Sure oil is used to make other things such as plastics, but plastic isn't a fuel designed to be burned!
Lithium battery packs can be and are being recycled. They can also be used in less demanding energy storage applications when they're no longer good enough for cars (which is many years). Also, in the coming years there will be new technological break-throughs to improve energy and power density and/or use other chemistries. There is a tremendous amount of R&D being done around the world to make batteries better. Who knows what may be developed in the next ten years?

 

[Abuschauffeur]

...will some manufacturers rush to make them (lower standards) ?

No they will implement a version of the infamous Phoebus cartel.

We may see the technological singularity in our life.

Not in my lifetime, I started to buy only ripe bananas now.

 

[PMCErnie]

Honestly, I wouldn't bother arguing with anti-EV crowd. It's always going to be bringing up any sort of downside as if they're disqualifiers entirely, not contextualizing upside/downside magnitude of change especially vs the sheer scale of current gas/oil, putting the burden of proof on change instead of how bad current systems and climate change are, and arguing in bad faith when they have no intention of changing their minds. These types are prevalent on all the car forums I visit.versus them argument.

Honestly, I wouldn't bother arguing with anti-EV crowd. It's always going to be bringing up any sort of downside as if they're disqualifiers entirely, not contextualizing upside/downside magnitude of change especially vs the sheer scale of current gas/oil, putting the burden of proof on change instead of how bad current systems and climate change are, and arguing in bad faith when they have no intention of changing their minds. These types are prevalent on all the car forums I visit.

Hahaha. Good for a laugh. Not a good debate strategy. Us versus them. Hahaha.

 

[Rickpx]

This will end up a total cluster. Imagine having an electric vehicle in LA right about now.

As someone who drives 1200 miles to Florida from the Midwest every winter, I can’t imagine trying to find a charging station every 250 miles and waiting an hour to recharge batteries each time.

The cynical joke goes, “if your batteries die while you’re on the highway, do you walk to the nearest charging station and bring back a bucket of electricity?”

I can appreciate hybrid cars, but I can’t believe we’ll have the technology and infrastructure to support totally electric vehicles by 2030.

 

[Richard Mississauga]

There is a certain inevitability to this question, driven almost exclusively by economics.

As the car manufacturers produce more EVs, the amount of ICE vehicles will decrease.

As that happens, capitalism will find a way to make recharging stations profitable. With our without Slushees.

The corresponding decrease of gas stations will follow.

The oil companies will begin to phase out, leaving the giants to raise prices in a futile attempt to maintain profits.

Eventually, a critical point will take place ECONOMICALLY, and the oil companies will revert down a very small sector of the economy, as battery producers rise.

If you doubt this scenario, feel free to consult your local blacksmith for his advice.

 

[RCH04]

Honestly, I wouldn't bother arguing with anti-EV crowd. It's always going to be bringing up any sort of downside as if they're disqualifiers entirely, not contextualizing upside/downside magnitude of change especially vs the sheer scale of current gas/oil, putting the burden of proof on change instead of how bad current systems and climate change are, and arguing in bad faith when they have no intention of changing their minds. These types are prevalent on all the car forums I visit.

 

[RCH04]

I look in on a Lexus forum and there is an ongoing deb

I do too and it's the same pro and con arguments over and over and over.

 

[PMCErnie]

I wonder how many days it will take the firemen to contain this electric vehicle blaze?

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