Genesis is at a Tipping point?

[Tau]

 

[Jhon]

Yes, we need one of them so that can quickly transport batteries from the factory to the dealerships.

 

[srobak]

A full-on adoption of EVs across multiple models is a massive error. The EV fad has died off as limitations, costs and issues have been exposed over the last couple years - on top of the true non-environmental saving impact. Killing the G70 is going to alienate the remainder of the tuner crowd. Not continuing the G90 is not going to fly well in Korea if they make good on it. But I can see them killing it in north America because even combined the facelifted models don't add up to 1st year sales of the Gen1. Will be a sad loss and be a big fat W for BMW, Merc and Audi, unfortuantely.

At this point - between this mess and the service mess, along with the recent rash of quality issues in manufacturing - I don't know if G is going to be around in 5 years.

 

[Jhon]

A full-on adoption of EVs across multiple models is a massive error. The EV fad has died off as limitations and issues have been exposed over the last couple years. Killing the G70 is going to alienate the remainder of the tuner crowd. Not continuing the G90 is not going to fly well in Korea if they make good on it. But I can see them killing it in north America because even combined the facelifted models don't add up to 1st year sales of the Gen1. Will be a sad loss and be a big fat W for BMW, Merc and Audi, unfortuantely.

At this point - between this mess and the service mess, along with the recent rash of quality issues in manufacturing - I don't know if G is going to be around in 5 years.

I just finished reading a Consumer Reports mag from earlier this year. They did a feature on what owners thought about their cars. Genesis was dead last when it came to the service you get at dealerships. But they do good in most other categories. People seem to love them. Car magazines seem to love them too. My daily news feeds give me a lot of Genesis articles from different magazines, I have never read anything but a glowing review of any Genesis model. (But I am sure there are some bad ones out there)
That being said, This will be my first and last Genesis if they don't get the dealership thing fixed before I am ready for a new car. I have not had any issues myself, but I have only been for the yearly service's where I could make my appointments ahead of time and have had great service. But if some idiot light came on or the AC went out, I would not be a happy pup waiting 2 to 6 weeks for an appointment.

 

[YEH]

KCB is reporting that Genesis is developing an EREV for the GV70, which possibly could be used for other models.

Hyundai Working in a 125-Mile GV70 Extended Range Electric Vehicle - Korean Car Blog

Hyundai Motor Group is currently developing an EREV vehicle that can travel 125 miles (200 kilometers) on electric power, based on a GV70

thekoreancarblog.com

The RFQ shows an abnormally low production figure for the GV70, so either it's only for Korean production or for production of the BEv models based on the eM platform, with the GV70 also continuing as an ICE by way of the EREV.


"The estimated annual production volumes specified in the RFQ are approximately 21,000 units for the GV90, 68,000 units for the GV80, 40,000 units for the GV70, and 51,000 units for the G80."


Notwithstanding the EREV, Genesis also needs to offer the GV70 (and other models) with a standard hybrid even with the transition to BEVs, as the price delta is still too large and many prospective buyers living in cities don't have access to a home charger.

 

[David Williamson]

We just bought a GV70 3.5 and we would have looked at a hybrid if one existed but not an EV, We are retired now but a few years ago when we always had 2 cars and we could use one car for local trips an EV would work. Now we only have one car on the road in the Winter an EV does not work.
David W

 

[srobak]

KCB is reporting that Genesis is developing an EREV for the GV70, which possibly could be used for other models.

I would not consider 125 miles anything remotely close to "extended range".

 

[Keith S]

Here in the UK the Genesis sells in tiny numbers, and as a result most think my Electrified G80, thanks to the badge design, think its some kind of Bentley! Given that the G80 amongst other models was styled be Luc Donkerwolke who was head of design for Bentley there is at least some faint link!!!
The brand began here and in Europe (Switzerland and Germany) getting g on for three years ago, and were a completely separate operation from Hyundai. However at the beginning of this year in the UK that changed with it being g merged into the Hyundai UK operations. The cars are now serviced and sold through a limited number of Hyundai dealers, although the collection/delivery on a transporter with courtesy car is still provided free of charge.
The plan to go EV only by 2025 may have been a little premature, as even in environmentally conscious Europe the EV market is cooling a bit, but the strongest seller has been the GV60, and I am surprised given the lack of choice in the Executive saloon sector the E G80 hasn't been a better seller particularly in London where there have been all sorts of financial benefits for driving an EV in the capital, coupled with virtually no other competition. Although in fairness you don't see many EQE or EQS Mercedes.
There were rumours that we might get the G90 but that hasn't materialised. The fact is, to build a premium brand takes many years of model cycles, and many like Infiniti have given up. The deep pockets of Hyundai will need to support the growth of the brand for many years in order to see it become established, but from my point of view the E G80 is the best car I've owned, and that's after decades of Jaguars and more recently Maserati.
Unlike the usual boring Germany rivals, the Genesis feel like it's a true luxury car!
.

 

[Husky]

A full-on adoption of EVs across multiple models is a massive error. The EV fad has died off as limitations, costs and issues have been exposed over the last couple years - on top of the true non-environmental saving impact. Killing the G70 is going to alienate the remainder of the tuner crowd. Not continuing the G90 is not going to fly well in Korea if they make good on it. But I can see them killing it in north America because even combined the facelifted models don't add up to 1st year sales of the Gen1. Will be a sad loss and be a big fat W for BMW, Merc and Audi, unfortuantely.

At this point - between this mess and the service mess, along with the recent rash of quality issues in manufacturing - I don't know if G is going to be around in 5 years.

"The EV fad has died off"
You keep telling yourself that.

 

[Keith S]

A full-on adoption of EVs across multiple models is a massive error. The EV fad has died off as limitations, costs and issues have been exposed over the last couple years - on top of the true non-environmental saving impact. Killing the G70 is going to alienate the remainder of the tuner crowd. Not continuing the G90 is not going to fly well in Korea if they make good on it. But I can see them killing it in north America because even combined the facelifted models don't add up to 1st year sales of the Gen1. Will be a sad loss and be a big fat W for BMW, Merc and Audi, unfortuantely.

At this point - between this mess and the service mess, along with the recent rash of quality issues in manufacturing - I don't know if G is going to be around in 5 years.

Both in the UK and Europe ever increasing legislation leading to a total ban for new ICE cars, dictates where the future is going.
Unfortunately the price disparity for EV's is undoubtedly causing the reduced sales volumes. To that end the Chinese will be able to massively undercut the traditional brands, and that's where the real risk is for these legacy brands.
Whilst I own a Genesis Electrified G80, at a shade over 5 metres long, a car this size is just too big for local journeys on Britain's small and congested roads, whilst parking places (particularly if your fussy, so finding safe spots!) Is matter of luck! So I also have a small runabout, and for this I recently changed from a DS3 (DS is a premium offshoot of the French brands Peugeot and Citroen), to an MG3. MG the old British sports car brand was bought by the Chinese giant SAIC, and whilst there is a UK development centre within the local corporate offices, all production takes place in China. They are enjoying massive sales with a mixture of small and medium size hatchbacks and SUV’s in both EV and hybrid. Their all electric MG4 hatch is one of the best selling EV’s easily beating its closest rival the VW ID3.
Meantime the car I bought, which was just launched in the UK/Europe, is like my previous DS3 what you Americans would call a subcompact. Whilst sales in this sector have been struggling with Ford famously dropping their previous best seller the Fiesta, all other brands from Hyundai/Kia, Toyota, and crucially all the Europeans have vehicles in this category.
However even not being all electric but just Hybrid or pure ICE prices of these cars have skyrocketed. To give you an idea, and to put it iN USD, you will be surprised to learn a best seller such as the Vauxhall (sold as Opel in Europe) Corsa could easily cost USD 35,000, and the EV version in top trim close to USD 50,000!!! Admittedly these cars come with a level of specification that for such a small car would be unheard of in the States. Semi autonomous driving aids, sat nav, in some cases power seat adjustments with massager and heated seats and wheel, so equipped more like executive cars… my point is the MG3 Hybrid (top end) Trophy model before discount is some USD 8,000 cheaper, but with all the features that it’s rivals have.
The simple truth is the Chinese are making massive in roads, and MG have just gone further upmarket into BMW and Porsche territory with the worlds first EV roadster - the Cyberster.
How long the traditional brands can last with this competition, let alone some of this stuff from Rivian, Lucid, and the already failing Fisker can last is doubtful.
In the long run don’t be surprised if the Chinese even buy out Tesla!

______________________________

Help support this site so it can continue supporting you!

 

[Husky]

Since I own both, let's take a look at an honest comparison of the G70 3.3 AWD top trim and the Kia EV6 GT-Line AWD (I actually have the Wind model, but I'm comparing the GT-Line because it has a sunroof and HUD, so it's a closer comparison to the G70 top trim).

Both cars have the same safety and luxury features, and the same warranty.

The MSRP for the two 2024 cars is within a couple thousand (or about the same price for the Wind model with no sunroof or HUD), but with discounts and rebates, the EV6 is nearby $10k cheaper than the G70. (Cue the government subsidy rant - but we won't talk about all of the government subsidies that oil companies have benefited from for decades.)

The EV6 is much quieter, much smoother, much torquier, much roomier in the back seat, and since it's a crossover (or wagon), it has more than double the cargo capacity.

The EV6 is just as fast as the G70 (I think slightly faster 0-60), and has good handling and steering. Sure, it's heavier and would likely be slower then the G70 on the track, for those that plan to do a lot of track days (I'm looking at you @Volfy )

The EV6 has essentially zero maintenance, and the costs for "fuel" are far cheaper. I charge for free with solar panels, but if I didn't have them, the cost per mile of electricity is about a third or a quarter the cost of gas for the G70.

Now the big concern: range. We recently took a 4 hour drive (our longest so far in 4 months of ownership) with the EV6 through part of NH, across VT (with lots of hills/mountains) and on the NY State thruway. We started with 90% charge and arrived at our destination four hours later with 25% charge left. We averaged 4.1 mi/kWh. The average temp that day was about 60F. We had no trouble finding a fast charger when we arrived, and filled it back up in 18 minutes, even though we didn't get the full advertised power capability from that particular charger. Yes, in winter we would have probably just barely made the trip without stopping to charge. But honestly, the G70 mpg and range is pretty poor IMHO. Even without driving in sport mode, I typically only get about 250 miles before I'm down to less than a quarter of a tank and feel like I should stop for gas. Yes, the G70 range is better, especially in cold temps, but it's not hugely better.

So the EV6 is cheaper, roomier, quieter, with similar features and performance as the G70 and has much lower operating costs. I call that a win, as witnessed by that fact that since we got the EV6, I've only filled the tank in the G70 once in four months. (And I'm waiting for recalls on the starter and the turbo oil line to be taken care of )

 

[Jhon]

In the USA, our president just put (or is putting) a 100% tariff on Chinese electric vehicles. (It was raised from 27%) The Chinese could import this compact car and the sticker price here in the USA would be about $20,000 with the current tariff. But now you are looking at close to $40,000. I get why he is doing it... Well because he wants to win the election. And I also see other reasons to do this as well, but this is HIS main motivation is the election. If climate change is such a big deal.....WTF. Europeans and Americans need to learn how to make cars more efficiently. China makes cheap solar panels, but they are increasing the tariff on them too. Why can't the rest of the world learn how to do this cheaply.
We got a guy in this country that pioneered the modern electric vehicles and showed the world that you can drive an electric car. And all the Federal government and the biased media does is try to cut the guy down.
They need to get the politics out of this in order to solve the problem.

 

[Husky]

I totally agree that it shouldn't be a political issue, but unfortunately it is. If the current president doesn't win the election, we know that the challenger isn't going to do anything, since he doesn't believe in climate change. In fact, he'll roll things back.

It doesn't matter what your good intentions are, if you don't win the election, you'll never have a chance to implement them, so winning the election has to come first.

 

[Keith S]

In the USA, our president just put (or is putting) a 100% tariff on Chinese electric vehicles. (It was raised from 27%) The Chinese could import this compact car and the sticker price here in the USA would be about $20,000 with the current tariff. But now you are looking at close to $40,000. I get why he is doing it... Well because he wants to win the election. And I also see other reasons to do this as well, but this is HIS main motivation is the election. If climate change is such a big deal.....WTF. Europeans and Americans need to learn how to make cars more efficiently. China makes cheap solar panels, but they are increasing the tariff on them too. Why can't the rest of the world learn how to do this cheaply.
We got a guy in this country that pioneered the modern electric vehicles and showed the world that you can drive an electric car. And all the Federal government and the biased media does is try to cut the guy down.
They need to get the politics out of this in order to solve the problem.

You make an interesting point regarding politics. Yes I drive an EV in the Electrified G80, but I have to be honest, I didn't make the switch to EV for environmental concerns, but because of the strength of the environmental lobby both in the UK and Europe. In terms of Britain, the motoring public (to coin a phrase) are taken to the cleaners in various taxes and levies. I live in a suburb of London, and in order to drive into Central London could cost the owner of an older than 2015 diesel some USD 35 - 40 per day to use the roads that they have already paid another annual tax called Road fund license, to be able to use. Incidentally any new car (and this is in British pounds) over GBP 40,000 is for the first few years subject to an additional 'luxury car charge!' Of GBP 400.00 on top of the other RFL charge.
The motorist in the UK has become an enormous hither to untapped revenue stream for both local and national government. The funniest thing of all, given the size of the UK, it would make not a jot of difference to world pollution if we were all on bicycles, but the environmental 'nutters' rule the roost.
So my reason to switch to EV was to get around some of these rip off charges.
I was told recently on this site not to get into politics, but I have to say I can't imagine for one second the U.S public putting up with all the taxation nonsense that we have over here!!
We too have an election, and it's almost a forgone conclusion that things will go from bad to worse when Sir Kier Starmer becomes our next prime minister, and with him comes his left wing Labour Party, that's when the real socialism and badgering of the public will really begin!
By the way Rishi Sunak (our current right wing Conservative party prime minister) would never dare introduce any tariffs on Chinese products. Simply put the Chinese could crush the British economy, we are that reliant on our exports to China, and their inward investment...

 

[Volfy]

Since I own both, let's take a look at an honest comparison of the G70 3.3 AWD top trim and the Kia EV6 GT-Line AWD (I actually have the Wind model, but I'm comparing the GT-Line because it has a sunroof and HUD, so it's a closer comparison to the G70 top trim).

Both cars have the same safety and luxury features, and the same warranty.

The MSRP for the two 2024 cars is within a couple thousand (or about the same price for the Wind model with no sunroof or HUD), but with discounts and rebates, the EV6 is nearby $10k cheaper than the G70. (Cue the government subsidy rant - but we won't talk about all of the government subsidies that oil companies have benefited from for decades.)

The EV6 is much quieter, much smoother, much torquier, much roomier in the back seat, and since it's a crossover (or wagon), it has more than double the cargo capacity.

The EV6 is just as fast as the G70 (I think slightly faster 0-60), and has good handling and steering. Sure, it's heavier and would likely be slower then the G70 on the track, for those that plan to do a lot of track days (I'm looking at you @Volfy )

The EV6 has essentially zero maintenance, and the costs for "fuel" are far cheaper. I charge for free with solar panels, but if I didn't have them, the cost per mile of electricity is about a third or a quarter the cost of gas for the G70.

Now the big concern: range. We recently took a 4 hour drive (our longest so far in 4 months of ownership) with the EV6 through part of NH, across VT (with lots of hills/mountains) and on the NY State thruway. We started with 90% charge and arrived at our destination four hours later with 25% charge left. We averaged 4.1 mi/kWh. The average temp that day was about 60F. We had no trouble finding a fast charger when we arrived, and filled it back up in 18 minutes, even though we didn't get the full advertised power capability from that particular charger. Yes, in winter we would have probably just barely made the trip without stopping to charge. But honestly, the G70 mpg and range is pretty poor IMHO. Even without driving in sport mode, I typically only get about 250 miles before I'm down to less than a quarter of a tank and feel like I should stop for gas. Yes, the G70 range is better, especially in cold temps, but it's not hugely better.

So the EV6 is cheaper, roomier, quieter, with similar features and performance as the G70 and has much lower operating costs. I call that a win, as witnessed by that fact that since we got the EV6, I've only filled the tank in the G70 once in four months. (And I'm waiting for recalls on the starter and the turbo oil line to be taken care of )

If you have already invested in solar system, then EVs starts to make sense. Even then, a lot depends on the locale. Do you also have Powerbank arrays installed? I watched Marques Brownlee's review and he has a 29kw solar system and three Powerwall3 installed for 40.5kwh of storage. That is a pretty robust system, but he is still pulling from the grid for running his home AC and charging his EV. He lives in NJ, so his home AC usage is probably not all that heavy. Here in Texas, I highly doubt that same system would come anywhere close to being sufficient.

Bear in mind that when he is pulling from the grid at night, when his solar system shuts down, the same thing is happening to renewable generators like solar farms and wind turbines. So, he is pulling electricity from the grid at a time when that utility power is at its "dirtiest", almost exclusively from burning fossil fuels.

Then there is the payoff for such a solar system investment. Marques Brownlee mentioned in his video that his yearly usage is some 54000 kwh, which cost him almost $10,000/yr. That is some insane amount for a single person household, but whatever. His solar system cost him about $92k (after tax breaks), for a breakeven of some 9yrs. We used right around 12000 kwh in 2023, which cost me about $1800. For me, break even for that same system would take 51yrs!

Yeah... no thanks.

As for the motorsport aspect of EV... well, I'm very honestly not too impressed. Sure, everybody always trumpet the fast acceleration of EVs. While that certainly is great for a lot of drivers, especially the street racers and 1/4milers. I'm much more of a handling and suspension guy. For me, EVs are wayyy too heavy to make good handling cars. Yes, there are a few of them at the local AutoX's, but I've never seen any run at Track Days. For handling, EVs pay a very HEAVY penalty (pun intended). That weight also chews up tires as well. Not only do EVs often have to spec tires that are specially made to withstand their weight (and lightening fast 0-60), they wear them out super fast as well. Peruse the web, and you'll find no shortage of complains from EV owners of how often their tires wear out. And those specialty replacements are more expensive as well. You just don't get something for nothing.

Mazda has been hinting at eventually switching the Miata to electric. I myself am very keen on seeing just how they manage that transition. Maybe they'll pull off a magic trick to make a lightweight Electric Miata with decent enough range. Who knows. The odds are sure stacked against it.

It may sound like I'm poopooing the whole idea. I'm really not. My approach is purely based on numbers and logic, devoid of biases. I did my math and objective eval, and it just doesn't add up.

 

[Volfy]

Now, what about potential savings with an EV...

Like many, I drive right around 12,000 miles/yr. My average mpg is consistently around 28mpg with my 2.5T. This is based on actual calculation at fill up. So I use about 428gal/yr. Depending on what I fuel up with (87 or 93), the cost is currently between $1300 to $1700/yr.

If your EV6 is $10k less than your G70, that's great. Apparently the math works out in your favor. I myself paid $35k for my '23 Stinger 2.5T Apex Package. Even if I could buy an equivalent EV at the same price, there is the huge hit I'd take on resale value, which has tanked for EVs lately. The more expensive the EV, the higher the depreciation. Some dealers are having enough trouble selling brand new EVs, they just cannot move pre-owned ones. Porsche dealers reported are refusing to take Macans in on trade, even with the huge resale hit their owners are taking after only a couple of yrs.

FWIW, I paid $22.5k for our'19 Stinger 3.5yrs ago, and the trade-in value is currently around $19k. The '21 G70 6MT took a larger hit. We bought it brand new for $35k and trade-in value after 3yrs is around $26k. If we had bought a 2022 EV6 GT (MSRP $52k) a year after the G70, the resale after 2yrs would be the same $26k. It would need to be bought at a humongous discount for any fuel savings to make sense.

Also, the recent storm that hit Houston and knocked out power for a wide swath of the city has again reminded me yet another reason why I do not want an EV. I just do not want the welfare of my family be dependent on a vehicle I cannot count on in an emergency. Every time a storm hit and we lose power, I can always rely on my generator running 24/7 to keep my home in relative comfort. All I had to do is make gas run every other day, with my four 5-gal cans. When Hurricane Ike hit in 2008, we were out of power for a whole week, but lots of others suffered far longer, upwards of 3-4weeks. An EV in that scenario would be useless to me... both for sustaining sheltering at home, or for evacuation when everybody and their uncles are doing the same.

All in all, some $1500/yr for gas starts to sound like a very very small price to pay for a much more dependable means of transportation, with no limitations or caveats.

Anyhow, that's how my math works out. Yours may vary.

 

[steveinarizona]

We just bought a GV70 3.5 and we would have looked at a hybrid if one existed but not an EV, We are retired now but a few years ago when we always had 2 cars and we could use one car for local trips an EV would work. Now we only have one car on the road in the Winter an EV does not work.
David W

I understand. My compromise is to ignore range except if I am going to do an intercity trip (e.g., Scottsdale to Las Vegas) I will rent an ICE vehicle. I walking in a mall for exercise (our temps are now reaching into the triple digits) and there is a Polestar showroom there. It is advertising a $299/month lease on a two motor Polestar 2. Even if one adjusts for the down payment, that is still a heck of a deal.

Would I consider a Polestar instead of my GV60P? No. But, if I were a two car family, the leased Polestar would be a terrific second, local, car.

In the USA, our president just put (or is putting) a 100% tariff on Chinese electric vehicles. (It was raised from 27%) The Chinese could import this compact car and the sticker price here in the USA would be about $20,000 with the current tariff. But now you are looking at close to $40,000. I get why he is doing it... Well because he wants to win the election. And I also see other reasons to do this as well, but this is HIS main motivation is the election. If climate change is such a big deal.....WTF. Europeans and Americans need to learn how to make cars more efficiently. China makes cheap solar panels, but they are increasing the tariff on them too. Why can't the rest of the world learn how to do this cheaply.
We got a guy in this country that pioneered the modern electric vehicles and showed the world that you can drive an electric car. And all the Federal government and the biased media does is try to cut the guy down.
They need to get the politics out of this in order to solve the problem.

A good first step to getting politics out of this would be to get this post out of the forum. Can we, please, keep the forum focused on cars and not politics?

 

[Husky]

Lots of good points to cover, and agreed, everyone has their own set of circumstances.

First of all, wow! That guy does use a crazy amount of electricity! Our annual usage is only about 10,000kWh. Our solar panels are sized to satisfy all of that (with net metering for the cloudy, winter months) and still charge our EV for free most of the time. We don't have a battery pack because the price for that was crazy. Our panel payback will be around 8 years, which is fine with me (that's not including the fact that it adds to the resale value of the house when the time comes). Frankly, for me personally, I'm willing to pay some $$ to use less fossil fuel.

When comparing using gasoline vs electricity generated with fossil fuels (it isn't always), don't forget to factor in the fact that EVs are 3-4 times more efficient thanks ICE, so the amount of fossil fuel used per mile to charge an EV is much less.

As for tires, it's too early for me to say, regarding our EV6. With 6,000 so far, I haven't noticed any tire wear. There certainly is a lot of recent hype/bad press regarding EV tire wear. I'm not sure how much of it comes from unbiased sources. Also, some of it is regarding 7,000 pound pickups, and probably people who are constantly showing off their 0-60 times. Our EV6 is only about 200 lbs heavier than an ICE GV70, so it's not crazy by today's standards. My E46 M3 only got 9,000 miles on a set of rear tires (which in talking to others turns out to be typical) and I didn't track it. I never saw any headlines about how awful that was.

Resale value is a tough one, as there are so many variables. Again, I've read all the hype regarding EVs, and I'm sure some of it is true. But resale values have always sucked (unless and until the car becomes a sought-after classic). I just checked the resale on my pristine, very low miles, loaded 2019 G70 Design edition that cost me $52k and was disappointed to see that it's down to about $26k.

As for refueling costs, at 15k-20k miles per year, we were spending $2500 to $3,000 a year on gas for the CX-5 (not putting in the recommended premium) that the EV6 replaced. We now spend close to $0! That's a big savings.
If we didn't have solar, the annual cost for charging at home would still only be about $900 a year. The few long trips we make a year, where we'll use DC fast chargers that charge a premium, will be covered by the free 10,000kWh at EA that Kia included with the car. I'm also not having to buy oil, oil filters, air filters, spark plugs and brake pads.

As far as power outages go, whenever we've had bad outages here, that lasted more than a couple of days, the gas stations had no power either, so you couldn't refuel any car. We just make sure to charge the car before a big storm is predicted, just like we used to fill up the car before a storm.

 

[Volfy]

8yr payback is very respectable. If I could get a workable system for less than 10yr payback when we first moved in, I would've definitely considered it. Right now... not so much, as we're considering moving in about 5-6yrs.

Fuel cost varies widely depending on region. Here in TX, gas is cheap. 87 currently hovers around $3/gal; 93 $4/gal. Quite often, with my Kroger Fuel Points accrued every month, I get upwards of $1 off per gal, for up to 35 gal per fill up. For most of this year, we were able to feed all our ICE cars for around $2/gal. In 2023, it was even less, at time down to below $1.50/gal (see below pic, taken in Nov 2023). For year 2023, I'd estimate my fuel cost over 12k miles to be around $800-900.

If your area has much higher gas prices, no doubt your calculus will be different.

 

[Husky]

Yeah, premium here is around $4.50, mid grade (what I use as a compromise) is about $4.00 and regular is about $3.50.
We haven't seen prices like yours in a long time.