GV70 - honest discussion

[TBickell]

Here's my take on all this. I'm 60 years old and the only electric vehicle I want to drive is a golf cart. I'm not interested in following for what now is nothing more than a fad driven by lunatics and the controlled rise in gas prices. If gas was $2.20 a gallon half of us wouldn't even be discussing this. I find pure electric vehicles boring regardless of how fast they are off the line and most hybrids are way heavier and suck more gas once the 20 mile EV range is shot. I'll pass.

 

[EdP]

going back hundreds of years, there are also examples of humans creating their own problems, and simply planning better would have alleviated their woes. Some problems were simply awful and needless. I think people want to solve these problems, others want to minimize them. You could have both you know...



So we should build the cars now and figure it out later?

Or we could try to synchronize these efforts.

When one person in charge of great ideas says it will need to happen in 5 years and another person in charge of the behind the scenes stuff that makes sure it happens says it will take longer, just stick with the 5 year plan anyway? I think a few military battles were lost with this thinking, and some of those militaries no longer exist.

Seems your idea of synchronize is to stop auto production for now. The only thing I see in your posts is negatives. Will there be rough spots? Sure. Most though, will be overcome.

We can revisit this in five years to see who got it right.

 

[Chad86tsi]

Seems your idea of synchronize is to stop auto production for now.

based on what? I've said no such thing. Not once.

The only thing I see in your posts is negatives. Will there be rough spots? Sure. Most though, will be overcome.

Before you retired, you worked in a role where decisions were made about how things got done. In these discussions there were pros and cons, right? Did these discussions only allow the positives? No one discussed the down sides or pointed out problems? Someone has to say the negative stuff when no one else seems to realize there are in fact negatives/problems. Sorry it has to be me. Doesn't' matter who it is really, truth is true no matter who delivers it. You are welcome.

We can revisit this in five years to see who got it right.

EV's will still be growing exponentially because the supply side (automakers) largely plan to stop making ICE's, solar and wind will continue to grow (but more linearly), and I already know where the grid in my area will be in 5 years because I've seen the plans. People that know more about it than I do are saying we'll be having brownouts and black outs by then. It's not just me.

 

[EdP]

based on what? I've said no such thing. Not once.



Before you retired, you worked in a role where decisions were made about how things got done. In these discussions there were pros and cons, right? Did these discussions only allow the positives? No one discussed the down sides or pointed out problems? Someone has to say the negative stuff when no one else seems to realize there are in fact negatives/problems. Sorry it has to be me. Doesn't' matter who it is really, truth is true no matter who delivers it. You are welcome.



EV's will still be growing exponentially because the supply side (automakers) largely plan to stop making ICE's, solar and wind will continue to grow (but more linearly), and I already know where the grid in my area will be in 5 years because I've seen the plans. People that know more about it than I do are saying we'll be having brownouts and black outs by then. It's not just me.

If negatives were brought up we quickly addressed them to see how to overcome it. Works better than just talking about the negatives.

Will there be brownouts in the future? Possible, maybe that will get the grid people moving a bit faster. Seems like the one in your area needs some modification if they see it inadequate. If they don't see it, you should tell them.

 

[Chad86tsi]

If negatives were brought up we quickly addressed them to see how to overcome it. Works better than just talking about the negatives.

One (among many) solutions to my concerns was suggested earlier that has been in testing for 10 years, has yet to reach target efficiency, and is still not ready to release. How does that address the problems that are real and articulable (by others, not just me)? the cars are being built now, so we need solutions now. Absent that, we ought to have a tough discussion about the realities of where we are headed tomorrow. I've posed problems that are real, provable, present, and persistent. Solutions to this concern have largely been theory, incomplete prototypes, and conjecture. And I'm the "negative/unreasonable" one? "We'll figure it out later" is not a solution, it's just an idea. I personally don't think it's a good one.

Will there be brownouts in the future? Possible, maybe that will get the grid people moving a bit faster. Seems like the one in your area needs some modification if they see it inadequate. If they don't see it, you should tell them.

The gird is moving as fast as it can, and I have a front seat view of that fact. It is my job to make that movement possible and reliable. There are no working technologies slated to fill these growing supply holes in the timelines needed, coupled with an active and rapid push to make the holes bigger (via coal reduction).

"Don't worry, somebody will figure it out". I am (by proxy) that somebody. I'm telling you this is a bad idea. Does that sound negative? Yes, it does. Sorry, not sorry.

 

[EdP]

Solutions to this concern have largely been theory, incomplete prototypes, and conjecture. And I'm the "negative/unreasonable" one? "We'll figure it out later" is not a solution, it's just an idea. I personally don't think it's a good one.

Well, there you go. Prove the theory, complete the prototypes, and turn conjecture into facts. They you will have a solution.

 

[Chad86tsi]

Well, there you go. Prove the theory, complete the prototypes, and turn conjecture into facts. They you will have a solution.

Because no one has tried yet, and all they need is more motive/incentive? We hope a good crisis will solve theses problems, so lets create a crisis and "hope" our way out of it.

 

[EdP]

Because no one has tried yet, and all they need is more motive/incentive? We hope a good crisis will solve theses problems, so lets create a crisis and "hope" our way out of it.

Nothing else seems to be working. Do we stop making EVs? If we can't get the grid working that is pretty much the alternative. I would think the power companies see this coming and should be working on solutions.

You've listed many of the problems but I've not seen potential solutions. What is your idea?

 

[TBickell]

As the "PHEV/EV" debate continues I just read that BMW has dropped the X3e plug in hybrid for the 2022 model year. I'm guessing the take rate was minimal based on limited EV range and heavier/less gas mileage. Hmmmmm.

 

[Chad86tsi]

Nothing else seems to be working. Do we stop making EVs? If we can't get the grid working that is pretty much the alternative. I would think the power companies see this coming and should be working on solutions.

They are working on it, but politics dictates policy, not "what works best". When the "big ideas" guy runs the company and doesn't listen to the "how do we get there?" guy, bad things happen. When we put politics ahead of the laws of physics and the constraints of existing knowledge/technology, you end up with similar results.

"Going faster" sounds easy enough, but when you don't even know where you are going (to what solution?), how do you get there faster? Making the problem bigger isn't the answer. Making the problem bigger will surely motivate, but that motive already exists and is being addressed.

Your back porch catches on fire from a forgotten cigarette and you call the fire department. They won't get there any faster if you light for front porch on fire too so they can see your house better. They are already on the way, but now there are 2 fires to put out so it will take longer. Id suggest you get the garden hose and do your best till they get there, and reconsider where you smoke.

You've listed many of the problems but I've not seen potential solutions. What is your idea?

re-read the topic, I listed quite a few. That those have been ignored because no one want's to hear "negative man" is part of the problem.

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[TBickell]

Screw all this EV talk.. Lets get back to the "honest discussion" part. I just got back from running around the northern Phoenix area and put about 60 miles of "mixed" driving on this GV70 and I could not be more pleased with it. Handles great, looks killer, interior and tech are outstanding, sound system is a 10. The head up display when using the cruise control is totally worth the extra jack to get it. The digital dash with the vehicle in the center area that curves with the road is so cool. If anything there is too much to look at and distract you from driving the thing. Comfort with the suede seats is outstanding. The vented seats really work and the ergo message stretching does too. I would not have bought this rig without all these features. To me they make the car special.

This is the first car/SUV I have driven where each mode is a pronounced difference. Sport and Sport+ totally change the whole experience. I'll be curious to see if the 2.5 motor does the same thing. If the exhaust could be naturally louder in the sport modes that would complete the picture.
Now that I have 1300 miles on the clock the gas mileage seems to be getting better and I got 26 mpg on a 30 mile highway jaunt at 70-75 MPH. Not bad for 375 HP. Plus its 107 degrees so that doesn't help.

All and all I'm very pleased. Was it cheap at 65k? Maybe not but to me it feels worth it and I've had some nice rides in the past. It will be interesting to see what the big reviewers say if they ever get around to it.

 

[hawks4life]

Screw all this EV talk.. Lets get back to the "honest discussion" part. I just got back from running around the northern Phoenix area and put about 60 miles of "mixed" driving on this GV70 and I could not be more pleased with it. Handles great, looks killer, interior and tech are outstanding, sound system is a 10. The head up display when using the cruise control is totally worth the extra jack to get it. The digital dash with the vehicle in the center area that curves with the road is so cool. If anything there is too much to look at and distract you from driving the thing. Comfort with the suede seats is outstanding. The vented seats really work and the ergo message stretching does too. I would not have bought this rig without all these features. To me they make the car special.

This is the first car/SUV I have driven where each mode is a pronounced difference. Sport and Sport+ totally change the whole experience. I'll be curious to see if the 2.5 motor does the same thing. If the exhaust could be naturally louder in the sport modes that would complete the picture.
Now that I have 1300 miles on the clock the gas mileage seems to be getting better and I got 26 mpg on a 30 mile highway jaunt at 70-75 MPH. Not bad for 375 HP. Plus its 107 degrees so that doesn't help.

All and all I'm very pleased. Was it cheap at 65k? Maybe not but to me it feels worth it and I've had some nice rides in the past. It will be interesting to see what the big reviewers say if they ever get around to it.

Thanks for the update. I hope the Phoenix dealer holds up to his end of the deal and I get mine in a month.

 

[mlee]

As the "PHEV/EV" debate continues I just read that BMW has dropped the X3e plug in hybrid for the 2022 model year. I'm guessing the take rate was minimal based on limited EV range and heavier/less gas mileage. Hmmmmm.

The X3 hybrid is still being built, but not sold only in the US, it's available in every other market.

My non-confirmed theory is that as BMW electrifies their fleet more, they don't want to use all their Federal EV tax credits on their lower margin cars. The X5 45e is still being offered, as is the 745e. They want to make sure that tax incentive is there for their fully electric vehicles for years. They could have have stopped the 330e instead, but crossovers outsell the sedans almost 2-1.

As of 2020 BMW was already halfway to their incentive limit (100k/200k cars), even with a tiny # of electric vehicle offerings. Relatively speaking, BMW was accelerating far closer to their limit than their competitors like Mercedes or Audi, who had 172k and 181k to go. I don't think they wanted to be in the position in 2023 or 2024 where their electric offering is going against Benz's & Audi's, except those two have a $7500 fed rebate while BMW does not (although it may be too late to reverse that path).

But the way the tax credits work is specific to the US, so in every other market they still sell the hybrid X3.

 

[EdP]

They are working on it, but politics dictates policy, not "what works best". When the "big ideas" guy runs the company and doesn't listen to the "how do we get there?" guy, bad things happen. When we put politics ahead of the laws of physics and the constraints of existing knowledge/technology, you end up with similar results.

"Going faster" sounds easy enough, but when you don't even know where you are going (to what solution?), how do you get there faster? Making the problem bigger isn't the answer. Making the problem bigger will surely motivate, but that motive already exists and is being addressed.

We certainly can agree on the politicians. Either the grid folks need better lobbyists or the EV owners will have to speak up.

 

[gorp]

!!! Totally valid point PetevB... Thinking of workarounds on how to make the action more intentional, less passenger FU&K-uppable. Red tape? Two button neutral?

Also found out that I can't move the car AT ALL if my driver door is open to move forward or backward. I want to be in control. What if I CAN'T close my driver door due to a circumstance? Hard to determine if the operator or the car is in charge.

(Case in point - I backed into my spot, had a huge plant in my door upon opening and wanted to roll forward a couple of inches to avoid the situation - couldn't even roll forward in neutral two inches because car says NO. No neutral, no drive... door is open - car says party foul.)

You should start a separate thread for "Unwanted babysitting". Cars are inherently dangerous and require a certain level of responsibility.

 

[EdP]

You should start a separate thread for "Unwanted babysitting". Cars are inherently dangerous and require a certain level of responsibility.

I'm curious, what if other doors are open? That would be more critical as people have been injured getting in or out of a stopped car that moved?

 

[FLtime]

I think I'm going to hit pause on seriously considering the GV70 unless pricing and options change. I was really considering Genesis for the value factor.....being able to get a vehicle for say $48K that has the power, features, and luxury that I would have to otherwise spend $65K to get from BMW, Audi, Mercedes, etc. But the GV70 just doesn't have enough of the value when you look at how the 2.5T models are missing key features like HUD, Napa leather, HDA II, etc.

 

[TBickell]

I think I'm going to hit pause on seriously considering the GV70 unless pricing and options change. I was really considering Genesis for the value factor.....being able to get a vehicle for say $48K that has the power, features, and luxury that I would have to otherwise spend $65K to get from BMW, Audi, Mercedes, etc. But the GV70 just doesn't have enough of the value when you look at how the 2.5T models are missing key features like HUD, Napa leather, HDA II, etc.

Agree they did some odd packaging on this vehicle but that didn't matter to me as I knew before they were out that I wanted the top trim with the 3.5 as I was cross-shopping X40i's ( either X3 or X4 versions) and GLC AMG ( due for a major refresh soon) and at 65k my GV70 was still substantially less than the others with comparable equipment. In a normal world we would be talking 6-maybe 10% discounts on the new Genesis but nothing is "normal" anymore.

I said it in an earlier post .. I wanted things like HUD,digital dash, vented seats and big smooth luxury type power. If my budget was 50k or less I would have gone CX-9 or maybe Santa Fe/Sorrento. That or looked for a pre-owned X3 M40i or Macan but I wanted to lease so that was out.

Right now due to the extremely odd lack of national reviews, we in this forum are the only source of real world data on this thing which makes it harder to decide. Not that I/we need Motor Trend to tell us what's what but it would be helpful. I can't think of another new vehicle that has been out to the consumers for almost 2 months with no write ups..

 

[FLtime]

Agree they did some odd packaging on this vehicle but that didn't matter to me as I knew before they were out that I wanted the top trim with the 3.5 as I was cross-shopping X40i's ( either X3 or X4 versions) and GLC AMG ( due for a major refresh soon) and at 65k my GV70 was still substantially less than the others with comparable equipment. In a normal world we would be talking 6-maybe 10% discounts on the new Genesis but nothing is "normal" anymore.

I said it in an earlier post .. I wanted things like HUD,digital dash, vented seats and big smooth luxury type power. If my budget was 50k or less I would have gone CX-9 or maybe Santa Fe/Sorrento. That or looked for a pre-owned X3 M40i or Macan but I wanted to lease so that was out.

Right now due to the extremely odd lack of national reviews, we in this forum are the only source of real world data on this thing which makes it harder to decide. Not that I/we need Motor Trend to tell us what's what but it would be helpful. I can't think of another new vehicle that has been out to the consumers for almost 2 months with no write ups..

All good points for sure. I'm closely considering the Santa Fe or Palisade Calligraphy trims. And since I don't need a new car immediately, I can afford to wait a little bit while the market normalizes.

 

[Backslack]

Huh, so the GV70 does have rotating headlights.

I wonder if this applies only to U.S. models or if the Korean ones with the matrix headlamps have them as well.