Handsfree and Call Waiting ID

[bcimaglia]

Hello and thanks for the great forum. I have lurked for a while here until I made my purchase last week of a 3.8 Tech Package. Now that I have it I have a question regarding Bluetooth and the Call Waiting ID. Having looked at the DIS manual and the Quick Reference guide they seem to show that the display will indicate the caller ID of the 2nd caller when you are on another call. Currently, my display only shows that I am receiving another call and do I want to accept or reject the call but no indication of who it is coming from. Can anyone else confirm that this works or doesn't work for them?

I did try and speak to Hyundai about this but they are having to do some research and have not been able to indicate who produced the Bluetooth for the Nav equipped car. They keep trying to route me back to Blueconnect who says that they don't have anything to do with this version.

My phone is an HTC Tytn that seems to work well with my Garmin GPS, no problems with Call Waiting and caller ID and no problem with importing the address book but I won't open that can of worms.

 

[Sal Collaziano]

Welcome, bcimaglia.. I'm moving this post into the "Electrical" forum as it will get the proper attention there..

Thank you for signing up!

 

[bcimaglia]

Thank you for the welcome and moving this thread to a better location.

I still haven't had much luck with Hyundai in getting any resolution to this issue. The folks at the the national level aren't even sure where to take this issue. I am willing to cut them some slack with the vehicle being new to them.

The salesman who sold me the car actually mentioned that there is a reasonably sized manual on using a phone in the car. I didn't get one in my packet; can anyone confirm if they received the mystery manual? I am going to drop by the dealers later to see if I can page through the manual and find an alternative to the corporate folks for help.

With all that said, I still love the car and I understand that this isn't the biggest issue in the world but would love to see it working or at least know that others are having the same issues.

Hey I figured I would start with the easier issue before moving on to tackle ripping content to the hard drive.

 

[BaywayRic]

Hey I figured I would start with the easier issue before moving on to tackle ripping content to the hard drive.

Congrats on your new ride, and welcome. I'm sure you are getting limited replies because it is reasonably hard to test your issue. I can, however, confirm for you there is no "phone manual". All you get is in the DIS manual. You cannot import your phone address book to the car, and you cannot rip anything to the hard drive. It is "currently" inaccesible.

I'm sure you have figured out by now that caller ID displayed on the screen is only a phone number, UNLESS you have an entry in the car phonebook that will provide an exact number match. If so, you get both name and number displayed for the first call. I have no idea what happens when you get a call waiting call.

 

[enjoyingsilence]

If I may interject.. and offer an outside point of view... most of you know I'm usually the guy that does that,

Call Waiting and Call Waiting Caller ID (both) over bluetooth are something of sketchy subject with any integrated bluetooth system.

It's generally a pain in the ass to bounce between calls, let alone receive notification (e.g. number delivery (I'll get into name delivery in a sec), via the bluetooth equipment in your car, WITHOUT having to do it from your phone itself, or even glance at your phone.

The reason for this is, the bluetooth equipment in your car, regardless who manufacturers it, doesn't facilitate the call itself. It just handles a Point A to B connection between your phone, and the car. Not your cell carrier, and your car. It knows when a call comes in... and based on Bluetooth HFP (hands free profile) is able to relay the number to your radio, navi unit, etc. The name gets relayed if your phone book is synchronised to your device, or otherwise saved in your devise, (as is the case with the genesis).

When you receive a call waiting call, the bluetooth equipment in your car only knows you're in an existing call, and has no way of determining you're receiving another call. You'd have to pick up your phone, to switch between the two, or see who it is.

*SOME* cars, provide the call waiting info, more often than not, they are the cars where you've hard wired your phone into it (such as the arm rest connector that BMW provides(provided), for certain model phones). Or if your car has a SIM chip slot (which is extremely rare in the US auto market).

--

In a nutshell. if you find that all of the above is confusing. Here's a summary

When on an existing phone call, using the bluetooth connection, and you receive an incoming call, via call waiting. It will be a 50/50 chance of relaying the call waiting information to your display. And it will still be a 50/50 shot at switching between the calls, without hanging up on someone, USING the car. By using your phone it's much easier, and more guaranteed.

hope this helps.

if you need RFC (request for clarification) don't hesitate to ask

edit: you're right, it's a can of worms. and I'm about 90% sure that the Bluetooth is made by Siemens.

 

[Sonata2009]

Enjoying silence,

Thanks for you input. To often we all want an exact science, but it isn't there yet - everyone has their own implementation and each one works better or worse than the next . . . .

All we can hope is that the "science" is firmware based, and that in future implementations, these implementations can be improved and upgraded. Thant applies to the phones but also the 40 Gig hard drive!

 

[enjoyingsilence]

Indeed... this seems to be the case. Often, I try to gauge my opinions here, on a loosely based solution, and offer advice that I hope readers, members, etc, can integrate into their own solutions, workarounds, and the like.

The beauty of firmware is, as you've said, it can be improved, and upgraded. Even with bluetooth. Bluetooth version 3 is on it's way! It's the trickle process, and for anyone who pays attention to Consumer Electronics, it's happening faster and faster. People are commanding these features!
==

It's amazing to me... we all mention this elusive 40gb hard drive. What is it 'yous guys' would like to know? lol.. I've done just about everything with that drive , other than remove it. If I knew how to disassemble the dashboard to get to it, I would.

 

[bcimaglia]

Thank you for the insights. It is good to know that I am not missing a manual. I was a bit surprised when the sales guy said that there was a separate manual for using the phone.

A couple of comments regarding the hands-free profile. I am all too aware of the crapshoot regarding functionality with compatibility between handset and device but I can confirm that my phone does pass both Caller ID and Call Waiting to at least 1 device, my Garmin 680 which shows shows callerid and call waiting ID from the same phone. The Garmin is a bluetooth 1.1 or higher device. While I would love to see OBEX enabled to deal with contacts I don't expect to see it anytime soon. This leads me to a looming concern, with Hyundai inkng the deal with Microsoft for Sync and I wonder how much, if any effort Hyundai will put into the DIS. Only time will tell.

The bluetooth connection is not my driving force in buying the vehicle so I won't agonize too much over the issue but I would like to see Hyundai improve how they operate. I am in the market for a new phone and would love to see a list of compatible phones and features supported like you can with the non-tech package version of the car. I would love to be lazy but it looks like I will have to try them 1 at a time.

There are a number of sharp technical people at this forum and it sounds like at least 1 has access to the API for the DIS so there may be some interesting stuff coming up with modding the system. I may pursue that avenue as well. While it isn't as cost effective as buying a handset it is a fun diversion.

 

[enjoyingsilence]

We shall see what lies ahead for Sync Integration.

We should note that, there's a number of material hardware pieces missing from the current installation.. and it'd be very pricey for a retro-fit, if not damn-near impossible, for sync. I'm also of the belief, we'd lose our beloved Lexicon system.

The API isn't as open and easy to program for, even with the Harman Software. It's a closed source system; you can change some things, colors, graphics, image sets, certain framework. But creating a module from scratch isn't as easy as it sounds. One needs some hard core training with either .Net/Visual Basic, or Cocoa/Java/C+, depending on your Operating System (Windows or OS X, respectively). Personally, I am an OS X user.

 

[bcimaglia]

enjoyingsilence I see now that you are the one who applied for the key for the dev program. How did that work for you?

I have a technical background so hardcore .Net/VB or Cocoa/Java/C++ skills are not a worry. In my business we are tech agnostic, use the right tool for the job. I currently have a mix of Mac's, Windows and Linux machines (sometimes all 3 on the same machine concurrently)

The biggest issue is justifying the 2nd Genesis for debugging.

Any suggestions on how to go about applying for the key to dev program?

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[enjoyingsilence]

Hey there..my apologies for the delay... was reading up on the blackberry storm the iPhone and I have ended our grim relationship.

Back on topic....

The acquisition of the API key isn't something I'd tackle on a daily basis. I have the Harman software because I have contacts there. I'm not sure they have their software up for open development. You might try to give harman/becker or harman/kardon a call... even Lexicon. The software is called Harman Updater.

It backends into their API database, as they maintain the back end code, and only seem to allow me to edit a few things.

It's a true API, you load up their program, and literally, login, and it connects.. you make the changes you want, and connect to the car. Downloads and voila.
---

I've not explored it much. There's not much that I'd like to change, to be honest.

edit: you won't need a back up Genesis lol ... if you mess something up in the ROM, it's a one button restore to the factory setting. It's much like Ghost And their API debugs things for you. And lets you simulate it. Like RIM's blackberry simulation software allows you to simulate many things. such as your IT policies, calls, address books, etc

 

[bcimaglia]

The Storm looks like an interesting bit of kit. I haven't walked the iPhone path as it seems once I would enable all the features that I would need Bluetooth, Push email etc that I would have about 8 minutes of talk time.

I have started an email conversation with the Harman/Becker folks who have been very responsive. They haven't provided an answer yet but they are asking the right questions. Once we get through their response to the initial question I will check on the Software Updater.

The 1 button restore feature puts my mind at ease that I won't brick the Nav unit.

Thanks for the guidance.

 

[enjoyingsilence]

Ah you're quite welcome

And the iPhone and Push Email aren't something that should be professionally allowed in the same sentence (in positive usage anyway)

Let us know what Harman has to say..

 

[Stormy]

And the iPhone and Push Email aren't something that should be professionally allowed in the same sentence (in positive usage anyway)

Sorry, I've had an iPhone since the day the 1st gen was released, and it's been nothing but great for me. What's wrong with push email?

Back on topic, does the API let you write your own applications for Genesis? I'm thinking an import/export to/from CSV format would be ideal for phonebook, address book, etc.

 

[enjoyingsilence]

The Push Email issues with the iPhone and MobileME (and Yahoo) are well documented across the interwebs. YMMV

Back on topic

Yes there is an import option for the address book. It doesn't recognise custom fields tho... If you've created some strange field... that isn't in range of what you could manually enter while sitting in the car, the data doesn't transfer over.

Since there's a program to check it on your computer.. it does help out You aren't a) looking like a silly mental sitting in your car with a computer or b) running from your home > car > home > car to keep dumping the info.

Harman, if you're reading this.. FIND A BLOODY WAY TO LET ME DUMP THIS SAVED INFO TO A DAMN FLASH DRIVE. lol... I'm not fond of toting my laptop around outside like luggage. Too much risk involved.

There's ways of auto executing a script to upload the data you export from the API. The car automatically/automagically (hehe) switches to the USB input... I'm sure the software could be written to upload the new framework.

 

[bcimaglia]

Ok, a minor update...I finally grabbed another phone and paired it with the vehicle and then grabbed 2 more phones to call the 3rd. Using an LG phone the Genesis at least shows the Call Waiting ID, so it looks like an interaction between the Tytn and the Genesis. My local dealer is discussing the issue with the Hyundai tech line. I'm not shocked that it worked with another device, now all I need is a list of approved devices from whomever so that I can pick up a new phone. Dropped by my providers store (AT&T) and the pickings are slim on decent phones. I have to do some traveling to Europe in a few weeks, it may be time to grab a decent phone.

With some luck I will hear from Harman and Hyundai in the next few days and I will let the group know what they have to say.

 

[enjoyingsilence]

Find out who made the bluetooth transceiver in the car and you can contact them for a list of approved handsets.

Additionally.. if you're picking up a phone in Europe.. and plan to use 3G services on AT&T in the US make sure it supports the 3G US bands on 1900 and 850 mhz. Europe broadcasts 3G on 2100MHZ. Best bet is to look for a tri band. if not quad band 3G device.

If you want.. I can send you some website that sell the majority of the phones online for around the same prices you'd pay in Europe (with the currency conversion). PM me if you're curious. I'm actually holding out for a Blackberry Bold.

Anyway... lol.. sorry... I tend to get carried away. Bluetooth in any car has the.. how do you say... tendency towards being picky with certain phones. Windows Mobile is no exception

 

[bcimaglia]

Here is the latest and it may (although not too likely) help someone else in the future. Hyundai has responded with a list of 100 phones tested (my model, a currently selling AT&T model was not tested) and how the fared. They didn't say whether or not the list was for the Nav or non-Nav units. They also told me that the issue was the phone/provider not providing caller ID but when questioned why my Garmin unit worked with the same handset and provider they were stumped.

Taking matters into my own hands I upgraded the software on the handset to Windows Mobile Pro 6.1 and voila it resolved the caller ID issue. Thanks for all that provided input and I will continue to work w/ Hyundai to see if they can resolve docs/customer service to make this better for others.