Help! Genesis 4.6 wont start, died suddenly, no spark...

[Joel R.]

Having to post this from my phone since as of today all the reply text boxes are grayed out on my computer #+$&#&#!

Dealer called today, said the ECM is bad, it's losing something and needs to be replaced. They are quoting me $2000 for the replacement and diagnostic fee.

Brother works in the business so he's getting one, but apparently there are none in US right now, will advise again when it's replaced. Can a used one be put in?

 

[Mark_888]

Having to post this from my phone since as of today all the reply text boxes are grayed out on my computer #+$&#&#!

Dealer called today, said the ECM is bad, it's losing something and needs to be replaced. They are quoting me $2000 for the replacement and diagnostic fee.

Brother works in the business so he's getting one, but apparently there are none in US right now, will advise again when it's replaced. Can a used one be put in?

Personally, I think the whole engine is hosed. There were a lot of problems with the 2009 Tau V8 4.6, which was the very first year of production for that engine, and Hyundai had to replace a fair number of them under warranty early on. There were serious mechanical problems inside the engine, due to damage caused when values, etc in wrong position when engine was started cold (the design relies too much on gravity for valves to be in correct position at start).

Most likely, you are just throwing good money after bad. Obviously, I don't know for sure what is wrong, but I would not trust a Hyundai dealer tech to really know either.

 

[homeofstone]

Here is the link for a used ECM. several are online for less than 200.00

https://www.tomsforeign.com/ecu-ecm-computer-hyundai-genesis-2009-09-2010-10-2011-11-391103f270-830713?gclid=EAIaIQobChMI8PPFpdre1QIVjjaBCh2m7gJVEAQYAyABEgLr9_D_BwE

 

[Joel R.]

I had heard that you could not reprogram/reuse the ECM for this car as it has some security features, is that not the case?

 

[Yoda_guy]

Wow that comment about a dealer tech is pretty inflammatory. Just like there are good and bad in every profession, a tech is no different. But then again I've seen alot of comments on here calling them monkeys and such. If it were me I'd ask them what they plan to do if the computer doesn't fix it and what promise they plan to make you on your$2000 investment not just being a wild ass guess. Then I'd ask them how much they would charge you to write the VIN into your supplied used ecm and program keys. If I remember correctly a Hyundai/Kia smart key can only be programmed to one vehicle but I'm not sure if they write your VIN into a used ecm how it would work. It's been a while now.

 

[Mark_888]

Wow that comment about a dealer tech is pretty inflammatory. Just like there are good and bad in every profession, a tech is no different. But then again I've seen alot of comments on here calling them monkeys and such. If it were me I'd ask them what they plan to do if the computer doesn't fix it and what promise they plan to make you on your$2000 investment not just being a wild ass guess. Then I'd ask them how much they would charge you to write the VIN into your supplied used ecm and program keys. If I remember correctly a Hyundai/Kia smart key can only be programmed to one vehicle but I'm not sure if they write your VIN into a used ecm how it would work. It's been a while now.

I did not mean for my comments about Hyundai techs to be inflammatory, but having been on this forum for more than 8 years, I have read many stories about various problems, and how Hyundai dealer techs are able to handle them (or not handle them, as the case may be).

The fact is that Hyundai dealer techs rarely make any repairs inside a Genesis engine or transmission, or the Audio and Nav systems. If something goes wrong, they just replace the whole thing and hope that fixes it. This is perfectly understandable these days, as engines, transmissions, and electronics are much more complex than even 15 years ago, and it takes special skills and equipment to actually repair their inner workings. Consequently, they have developed a policy (usually approved by HMA) of just trying to replace various components to see if that fixes the problem, and in this case replacing the ECU is a lot easier than replacing the engine.

I completely agree that if they say it is an ECU problem, and replacing it does not fix it, then I would not want to pay for their labor or parts to put the old one back in. But not sure they would agree to that. I just suspect (my hunch) that the engine itself is hosed.

 

[Joel R.]

I see your point, Mark, but I'm hoping this will fix it. The engine does start up fine after a night's rest. The problem is it either degenerates to a rough idle or just quits after a few seconds. I think the engine is sound, it's an ignition issue or control system issue. Either way, I will let everyone know how it goes, but it might be a few days before the ECM comes in.

 

[wallymn]

I would be concerned about damage from the rough idle misfires. Maybe scope and see what things look like in the cylinders

 

[Future Owner]

Personally, I think the whole engine is hosed. There were a lot of problems with the 2009 Tau V8 4.6, which was the very first year of production for that engine, and Hyundai had to replace a fair number of them under warranty early on. There were serious mechanical problems inside the engine, due to damage caused when values, etc in wrong position when engine was started cold (the design relies too much on gravity for valves to be in correct position at start).

Most likely, you are just throwing good money after bad. Obviously, I don't know for sure what is wrong, but I would not trust a Hyundai dealer tech to really know either.

You're making me very, very nervous....

 

[Mark_888]

You're making me very, very nervous....

If you have a 2009 4.6 V8, avoid shutting down the engine when it has been running for less than a few minutes, especially if it was started cold. Always let it run for at least several minutes before shutting it off. Using synthetic oil helps. The problem seems to occur more frequently during cold weather and when parked a steep hill (because gravity doesn't work as well on getting the valves back in the correct position after engine shut down).

If you ever feel the engine is misfiring or running rough right after start up, shut it down immediately.

There are many threads about this from 2009, but so long as you follow the above you should be OK. Personally, I would use the same precautions no matter what year of the Tau V8 I had (4.6L or 5.0L), although have not heard many complaints beyond the 2009 model.

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[wallymn]

Mark. I can confirm the short run leads to rough start even in 2013. But poster states idle starts normal then gets rough. That isn't the trapped vapor issue that happens from a short start and stop.

 

[Mark_888]

Mark. I can confirm the short run leads to rough start even in 2013. But poster states idle starts normal then gets rough. That isn't the trapped vapor issue that happens from a short start and stop.

The problem I described often leads to internal engine damage (bent valves, etc). Once that happens, a multiple of other problems can occur over time, and even catastrophic failure of the engine.

 

[Joel R.]

Well, I got the car back today after a short stay at the dealer. I provided them a new ECM and the programmed and installed it. More correctly, they installed it and then programmed it.

The car is running great now, no sign of the issues it was having. I have to admit I wasnt super confident after the dealer said these never go bad, but it's fixed, and I'm glad of that. I'll reply again if anything else happens.

Paid about $950 for the ECM, $110 for the tow to the dealer and $440 and change for the diagnostic, install and programming of the new ECM. I felt lucky as when I was leaving the tech showed me another invoice of another '12 Genny with a blown engine. $8700 for a used engine...



Thank you to all of you who chipped in with advice and assistance. I really appreciate the time you took to help me understand proper troubleshooting and diagnostics.

 

[Yoda_guy]

I'm glad to hear that your car got fixed. That's a good feeling. In the 7 or so years I was with Kia I saw exactly 0 ecms go bad so congratulations to the tech that diagnosed it. Couldn't have been easy.

 

[wallymn]

Very glad it worked out!

 

[homeofstone]

Well, I got the car back today after a short stay at the dealer. I provided them a new ECM and the programmed and installed it. More correctly, they installed it and then programmed it.

The car is running great now, no sign of the issues it was having. I have to admit I wasnt super confident after the dealer said these never go bad, but it's fixed, and I'm glad of that. I'll reply again if anything else happens.

Paid about $950 for the ECM, $110 for the tow to the dealer and $440 and change for the diagnostic, install and programming of the new ECM. I felt lucky as when I was leaving the tech showed me another invoice of another '12 Genny with a blown engine. $8700 for a used engine...



Thank you to all of you who chipped in with advice and assistance. I really appreciate the time you took to help me understand proper troubleshooting and diagnostics.

You are welcome. Back on August 8 I stated that it could be the ECM. I thought that the ECM was bad from the symptoms you mentioned in your original post and ECM's do go bad, it is rare but they do.

 

[Future Owner]

If you have a 2009 4.6 V8, avoid shutting down the engine when it has been running for less than a few minutes, especially if it was started cold. Always let it run for at least several minutes before shutting it off. Using synthetic oil helps. The problem seems to occur more frequently during cold weather and when parked a steep hill (because gravity doesn't work as well on getting the valves back in the correct position after engine shut down).

If you ever feel the engine is misfiring or running rough right after start up, shut it down immediately.

There are many threads about this from 2009, but so long as you follow the above you should be OK. Personally, I would use the same precautions no matter what year of the Tau V8 I had (4.6L or 5.0L), although have not heard many complaints beyond the 2009 model.

Thanks for the pointers. I'm a bit concerned because my work is only two miles from my home, so in the winter, my car doesn't reach full operating temperature. I guess I'll just use synthetic oil and hope for the best.

 

[Mark_888]

Thanks for the pointers. I'm a bit concerned because my work is only two miles from my home, so in the winter, my car doesn't reach full operating temperature. I guess I'll just use synthetic oil and hope for the best.

All of the problems that I recall being posted on this forum occurred when someone started the engine cold, and shut it off within 30 seconds, then restarted it later. So your two mile run may be good enough to avoid any problems. But if you do encounter very rough idle at startup, shut it down immediately.

 

[Blake 4.6]

Well, I got the car back today after a short stay at the dealer. I provided them a new ECM and the programmed and installed it. More correctly, they installed it and then programmed it.

The car is running great now, no sign of the issues it was having. I have to admit I wasnt super confident after the dealer said these never go bad, but it's fixed, and I'm glad of that. I'll reply again if anything else happens.

Paid about $950 for the ECM, $110 for the tow to the dealer and $440 and change for the diagnostic, install and programming of the new ECM. I felt lucky as when I was leaving the tech showed me another invoice of another '12 Genny with a blown engine. $8700 for a used engine...



Thank you to all of you who chipped in with advice and assistance. I really appreciate the time you took to help me understand proper troubleshooting and diagnostics.

I know I'm late to the party but I am hoping you will still see and answer this. Did you get a new ecm and know if they can use a used one?

 

[Charlie1982]

I know I'm late to the party but I am hoping you will still see and answer this. Did you get a new ecm and know if they can use a used one?

In post #33 the OP says "I provided them a new ECM", then later on says it cost him $950. I'm guessing that was for a used ECM he rounded up somewhere from a wrecking yard or online, but I don't know that for sure. It certainly could have been brand new, but at that price I wouldn't expect it to be. Interesting saga, nonetheless.