Highly Discouraged

[Advocate225]

I visited a Hyundai dealership in Suburban Philadelphia yesterday. Just shy of three years ago I went to that dealership with my brother, and I negotiated a 3 yr lease of a Sonata for him. I liked the sales rep and from time to time I had spoken with him about the upcoming Genesis which had yet to be introduced for sale.

Recently I had a few email exchanges and phone calls and stated that I was intersted in coming to leasse a Genesis, and had seen the "special" on the Hyundai website for the Genesis 3.8. My car is only two years old and I barely drive 5,000 miles per year, primarily to the train station and back for my daily commute downtown.

Going from the used car values on Edmunds and Kelly I told in the neighborhood that I'd want on my trade, and that I wanted to take the lease special, since I there is no real track record on the Genesis as yet.

When I arrived I was shuttled off to another sales rep. He old me that they has one such car in stock, beige in color, but they could order a pearl white or black, since those are the colors I like. We went to the lot, he walked up to a beige Azera and was puzzled why the doors would not unlock. Asking him if he truly knows his products, I informed him the the car was NOT a Genesis, and pointed out the Genesis seveal rows over.

When we got to the Genesis again the doors would not unlock. Why? The battery on the car was dead! Now, this really intills confidence in a buyer who has never before owned a Hyundai product. The car is brand new, on the dealer's lot, and the battery is dead.

We took the car for a test drive. I did like the "feel" of the car but must admit that the air conditioning seemed very weak. That greatly reduced my interest in the car.

When we got back to the lot I looked around and on the back window was a dealer glue on with an additional $2,000 in so called costs which included "Market Adjustment." Now then, this is pure bullshit. And I put it to the sales rep in just those terms.

Walking back into the showroom the sales rep had on the desk an appraisal on my car. Previously I had discussed what I wanted with the previous sales rep, who had called my office to say that what I wanted was "doable." This appraisal was $5,000 low.

I am not about sit down and waste a Saturday afternoon with this kind of nonsense. During the week I practice law 12 to 15 hours per day. I won't walk into a caar showroom and waste time with what I consider to be "low life sterotypical car salesmen."

A Genesis is off my radar. It'll be a Lexus for me and no looking back.

 

[ctrcbob]

Don't shoot the message (Genesis), shoot the messenger (Dealer).

This dealer does not want to sell cars. (If battery goes dead while on the lot, it has been sitting too long as dealer would not sell it at a reasonable price). Go to another dealer. There are good dealers and there are bad dealers. This dealer first off, had a salesperson who did not know what he was talking about. (Azera vice Genesis). Salesperson was pawned off on you from your previous sales persons. Lied to you about price, to get you into the store. Had a Bumpup sticker, this close to the intro of the 2010's. (Also, you were leasing, not buying).

There are a lot of other Hyundai Dealers. I know it is Lexus for you and you are not looking back, considering the 12 to 15 hour law practice you have, but for others, if you don't like the deal at one dealer, go to another. That is what I did.

My closest dealer (Jenkins Hyundai) had a salesperson who did not know what he was talking about. Was not a "car guy". They also had Bumpup stickers on the windows. (They still do as a friend was trying to buy from them last week). I then did not even try to deal with them because the only car they had in stock that I was interested in, got sold the day before. (They said they could get me the car I wanted, but I don't do that, as I want to see, and drive the exact car I am buying - I.E. I don't buy a pig in a poke.)

Next dealer (Universal Hyundai) I tried, was honest with me. Although he gave me a lot of BS, He would not budge from list. At least he was honest about his price .

Next dealer I tried, (Orlando Hyundai) said they would discount the car by $2000. I did my homework, and checked the "Trade-In Value" of my trade, so I knew what it was worth. After driving the Genesis, they only wanted to give me $1000 less than Trade-In Value, so doing the math, it is the same as giving me actual trade-in value, and discounting the Genesis by $1000. Not as good as I wanted, but much better than the other two dealers, so I purchased it at there. (Happy with them as their Service and Parts Departments treat me like a king <grin>)

As for your A/C comment. You just did not push the correct buttons. If I don't set the A/C correct, it also will not cool car quickly, but pushing the correct buttons, it cools the car fast. This comes with owership knowledge.

 

[scottdk]

I agree with everything Bob said.

Why not try another dealership?

Have I had bad experiences with dealerships in the last 10 years of car buying? Yes, but I would not waste my time with them, so I would go to another dealer.

Simple solution to me.

Maybe you were just upset and are trying to find somewhere to place your anger?

Well either direction you go, enjoy your new purchase

 

[wallymn]

What happens if Lexus tried to low ball you on your trade?

I buy a new car every 2 years or so, and only once, did the dealer offer me what I expected. Oddly it was when I was buying my Genesis.

I gave up on a local BMW dealership due to their "value" of trades.

Find the car you want first (If it happens to be a Genesis great) then plan to visit at least 3 dealers to find one you can work with.

 

[Mark_888]

What happens if Lexus tried to low ball you on your trade?

All dealers will probably try to get the best deal on trade-in and sales price to maximize their profits, but Hyundai dealers are used to dealing with customers who are less intelligent, less sophisticated, and have less experience buying a new car as compared to other upscale car dealers. So for that reason many Hyundai dealers will try and pull all those same tricks they pull on regular Hyundai buyers thinking it will work (not realizing that Genesis buyers are different). You can can probably get past that if you work really hard, but for some it is just not worth the effort, and portends similarly poor treatment for service and parts down the road.

 

[Advocate225]

All dealers will probably try to get the best deal on trade-in and sales price to maximize their profits, but Hyundai dealers are used to dealing with customers who are less intelligent, less sophisticated, and have less experience buying a new car as compared to other upscale car dealers. So for that reason many Hyundai dealers will try and pull all those same tricks they pull on regular Hyundai buyers thinking it will work (not realizing that Genesis buyers are different). You can can probably get past that if you work really hard, but for some it is just not worth the effort, and portends similarly poor treatment for service and parts down the road.

It was three years ago when my younger brother decided to lease a Hyundai Sonata. I was very unhappy with his decision since to me Hyundai was the maker of cheap transportation. I went with him first to two Hyundai dealers closer to our homes. I felt like I needed a shower when I left these dealerships. Disgusting snake oil salesman at tiny cubicles shouting about needing a co-signer to the customers. It was a horrible experience. The third dealership seemed "less disgusting" and that was where he leased his Sonata, and where I went to inquire about a Genesis.

I've purchased and leased close to 40 cars in my lifetime. Nothing has been like the experience at the Hyundai dealerships. It's a wonder that any customers have cross shopped and purchased a Genesis. Even if the car is nice, and it is, the dealerships are horrible. If Hyundai believes the Genesis can thrive and that shoppers will also come in for the Equus, I think they've misread the market. I'll do all i can to talk my brother out of leasing a second Hyundai when his leasse is up in October.

 

[MattG]

<rant>
I am deeply saddened that in this day and age, people are still willing to persist in making sweeping generalizations about other people, and think that it is OK. For anybody that has had a bad experience at a Hyundai dealership, I'm sorry to hear about it. Truly. However, there are plenty of people that have had good experiences at Hyundai dealerships, and we should remember that the dealerships are independently owned businesses. There is a word for holding an opinion about all members of a group despite empirical evidence to the contrary. There is another word for acting on such an opinion as if it were fact.
</rant>

There is a bit of variation from dealership to dealership, but remember that your salesperson is working for commission. If you are looking to get a Genesis at or under invoice, the salesperson is likely looking at what the industry calls a "mini" - in other words, minimum compensation (most dealerships have a minimum compensation that they pay to the salesperson on any approved deal, even if the dealership loses money on it).

Most dealerships also offer commission structure on the trade in as well. The typical procedure is to offer the customer something called a "hit price". While I do not approve of this tactic, it is basically an opening offer from the dealer, and not the final value that they are willing to pay. I try to be philosophical about it - I'm going to grind them on price trying to get under invoice, and they are going to grind me on price any place they think they might be able to (and I'm not going to let them). The dealership experience is basically playing racquetball with a friend - they are nice until the game starts, and then all bets are off!

That being said, we should always remember the most important lesson from Car Buying 101: Every car deal should be viewed as up to three separate transactions!

• Negotiate purchase price for the car
• Negotiate value of trade in
• Negotiate financing

Personally, I don't do the trade in thing. If I am getting rid of a car that has carried its value well, I can do way better finding a private party to purchase it. If I am getting rid of a car that is "soft" - well, I'd rather my bad luck on the devaluation of the car be the good fortune of a friend or family member who could use a good deal.

One final thought, and I know that some people are going to roll their eyes at this, but car dealers are people too. I believe that far too many people go onto the lot sure that the dealer is going to try to screw them. Dealers will pick up on this, and basically adopt a siege mentality. Don't do this! Go to the lot with a smile on your face, and a spring in your step. Have fun looking at the cars, and have fun driving them. Stick to your guns on numbers, but keep it light and cheery the whole way through. If the dealer is willing to meet someone's number, they will meet it faster for someone that they like than someone they don't.

 

[Advocate225]

Remember, I have leased or purchased roughly 40 cars, so I am not inexperienced. My very first new car purchase was on July 14, 1975, so its been three and half decades of car negotiations. It's ONLY at the three Hyundai dealerships that I've visited that I came away with this impression.

 

[MattG]

Remember, I have leased or purchased roughly 40 cars, so I am not inexperienced. My very first new car purchase was on July 14, 1975, so its been three and half decades of car negotiations. It's ONLY at the three Hyundai dealerships that I've visited that I came away with this impression.

My grandfather said much the same thing to me, once, about dealing with people of [redacted] ethnicity. He was wrong too.

That you've had bad experiences at Hyundai dealerships, I have no doubt. From those experiences, it would be appropriate to conclude that those specific dealerships might have some issues. It would also be appropriate to suspect that Hyundai North America needs to look into establishing more stringent standards and/or stiffer penalties for dealers that don't meet minimum standards of professionalism, especially with their Genesis products. What isn't appropriate, however, is to then, from a sample of 3 (as of 2004 there were more than 660 Hyundai dealers in the US), conclude that all Hyundai dealers suck.

 

[wallymn]

Sorry I missed from the first post that you had visited 3 dealerships and came away with bad results from all.

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[Mark_888]

Remember, I have leased or purchased roughly 40 cars, so I am not inexperienced. My very first new car purchase was on July 14, 1975, so its been three and half decades of car negotiations. It's ONLY at the three Hyundai dealerships that I've visited that I came away with this impression.

Those tactics probably work well with the type of customers that many Hyundai dealers are used to selling to, or they wouldn't use them.

Now that that they are trying to sell the upscale Genesis, and many of the other Hyundai vehicles like Sonata are now very competitive irrespective of price (not just purchased by people who cannot afford a Camry or Accord), it is going to be interesting to see how Hyundai Motors America will deal with this problem. If they don't deal with it, they are going to hit a brick wall, no matter how good their cars are.

 

[mkny73]

Lots of interesting posts. I am still in the process of getting delivery in my car but overall feel that all dealers are pretty much the same. They will try to negotiate the best they can to maximize their benefit. I did notice that when I go to a car dealer after work wearing my suit, sales folks tend to not insult me as much as if I am some normal Joe off the street.

The other observation would be to drop an high or low offer before you even get to the dealership. I test drove the Genesis with the dealer knowing that I had a deal for $1500 below invoice before I even walked through the door. As a result, the dealer gave me a very high trade and I then fought down for an extra $500 in savings.

Ultimately you need to find the right dealership (one that has lots of inventory and more desperate to deal) and let them know that you are not an idiot off the street. Whether it was negotiating on my two previous negotiations with Mercedes or my most recent one with Hyundai, it is all about doing your homework, creating BATNA (best alternative to negotiated agreement) and using your negotiation tool kit.

 

[Nabber]

Even if the car is nice, and it is, the dealerships are horrible.

While I understand what you are saying, keep in mind these are your dealership experiences, not necessarily ours. My dealership was fine. They also sell Lexus, Jaguar, Audi, and Mercedes (along with many vanilla brands) so that probably helps. But in the end, if your local dealerships are horrible, and it sounds as though they are, you have to move on. Good luck.

 

[mikec]

Find out who owns those three sleazy dealers - you might find they're owned by the same person or company. If so, no wonder their tactics are similar. Find a dealership not owned by that scumball. And make sure he/she doesn't own whatever Lexus dealer you visit.

I've run across similar scum dealers - from other car companies. I've dealt with all of 2 Hyundai dealerships: one while my folks bought their Azera (in Utah) and the one I dealt with for my Genesis. Both were far more professional and courteous than what you experienced. I've also seen similar good-vs-bad in chain store businesses like Home Depot, Sears, etc.

mike c.

 

[speakthetruth]

All dealers will probably try to get the best deal on trade-in and sales price to maximize their profits, but Hyundai dealers are used to dealing with customers who are less intelligent, less sophisticated, and have less experience buying a new car as compared to other upscale car dealers. So for that reason many Hyundai dealers will try and pull all those same tricks they pull on regular Hyundai buyers thinking it will work (not realizing that Genesis buyers are different). You can can probably get past that if you work really hard, but for some it is just not worth the effort, and portends similarly poor treatment for service and parts down the road.

ok, ive about had it, i wish one of the mods would do or say something about this prejudice, people profiling clown. every post he writes on he insenuates peoples social and economic status..its getting old. gtfo off the site if people here are beneath you cause i bet you not exactly who you want people to percieve yourself to be.

 

[Mark_888]

ok, ive about had it, i wish one of the mods would do or say something about this prejudice, people profiling clown. every post he writes on he insenuates peoples social and economic status..its getting old. gtfo off the site if people here are beneath you cause i bet you not exactly who you want people to percieve yourself to be.

I have never said that any Genesis owners are beneath me. In fact, my Genesis is the most expensive car I have ever owned, and I have the base model. I don't care much about prestige or showing off when it comes to cars. The car does not make the man. My previous car was a 1998 Toyota Camry.

What I tried to explain is two things:

1. The reason that car salespersons use the tactics they do is because they work, not because salespeople are evil people.

2. Historically Hyundai buyers (excluding Genesis buyers obviously) have been less educated, and had less money to spend on a car than even Honda or Toyota buyers, so some of the tactics may work better (be more profitable for the salesperson) on an inexperienced buyer than one who has purchased a lot of new cars previously. So that is why you see some of these tactics used by a Hyundai salesperson that would be less likely to be used in some other brands (but obviously there are other brands whose customers are just like Hyundai).

Is this a gross generalization? Certainly it is, and it does not fit every salesperson nor every Hyundai owner (even excluding Genesis owners). But in terms on general trends, it does seem (as noted by others, including the person who started this thread) that there is a "general" difference between Hyundai dealers and several other brands.

Since the quality of Hyundai cars has vastly improved in recent years, more people will be buying them because of their quality/features and not just because Hyundai is less expensive than the competition. But the sales force may find that making the transition to a different breed of customers will be tough, as has been noted by several people who have shied away from the Genesis just because of the (perceived) sleazy tactics of the dealers.

 

[speakthetruth]

I have never said that any Genesis owners are beneath me. In fact, my Genesis is the most expensive car I have ever owned, and I have the base model. I don't care much about prestige or showing off when it comes to cars. The car does not make the man. My previous car was a 1998 Toyota Camry.

What I tried to explain is two things:

1. The reason that car salespersons use the tactics they do is because they work, not because salespeople are evil people.

2. Historically Hyundai buyers (excluding Genesis buyers obviously) have been less educated, and had less money to spend on a car than even Honda or Toyota buyers, so some of the tactics may work better (be more profitable for the salesperson) on an inexperienced buyer than one who has purchased a lot of new cars previously. So that is why you see some of these tactics used by a Hyundai salesperson that would be less likely to be used in some other brands (but obviously there are other brands whose customers are just like Hyundai).

Is this a gross generalization? Certainly it is, and it does not fit every salesperson nor every Hyundai owner (even excluding Genesis owners). But in terms on general trends, it does seem (as noted by others, including the person who started this thread) that there is a "general" difference between Hyundai dealers and several other brands.

Since the quality of Hyundai cars has vastly improved in recent years, more people will be buying them because of their quality/features and not just because Hyundai is less expensive than the competition. But the sales force may find that making the transition to a different breed of customers will be tough, as has been noted by several people who have shied away from the Genesis just because of the (perceived) sleazy tactics of the dealers.

these are laughable points your TRYING to make to justify what you say all the time.

for one, the theme "crooked car salesmen and dealers" came from the history of ALL makes and models of cars that have been or that are sold, not from hyundai alone, those dealers that you are talking about that are used to dealing with a certain "demographic" of people have been the ones that started this original concept..which i know for a fact is true and shall be due to the fact they have always dealt with a broader spectrum of consumer than hyundai has ever.

so for you to generalize this is why that and this is why this is far removed from the actual truth. do more research.

 

[Sal Collaziano]

ok, ive about had it, i wish one of the mods would do or say something about this prejudice, people profiling clown. every post he writes on he insenuates peoples social and economic status..its getting old. gtfo off the site if people here are beneath you cause i bet you not exactly who you want people to percieve yourself to be.

Send me a PM with links to more instances of this behavior and I will look into it. Based on this post alone (I don't have enough time to read all the posts on here), I don't see an issue. I don't know if this is fact or fiction - but I have a feeling that most people successful enough to own very expensive premium luxury vehicles are more often than not highly educated and could certainly be more intelligent than you're average, every day Joe/Jane. Again, I could be wrong but I think this is what Mark was trying to get at..

It would be a shame to assume that our nation's scientists, doctors, lawyers and engineers are not any more intelligent than the rest of us. I do have a feeling that people treat people with higher intelligence with more respect. This may be a shallow way to be, but I do believe it's the way it is...

 

[Mark_888]

these are laughable points your TRYING to make to justify what you say all the time.

for one, the theme "crooked car salesmen and dealers" came from the history of ALL makes and models of cars that have been or that are sold, not from hyundai alone, those dealers that you are talking about that are used to dealing with a certain "demographic" of people have been the ones that started this original concept..which i know for a fact is true and shall be due to the fact they have always dealt with a broader spectrum of consumer than hyundai has ever.

so for you to generalize this is why that and this is why this is far removed from the actual truth. do more research.

1. I never used the term "crooked car salesmen and dealers" so please get your facts straight.

2. If you want to present yourself as a highly educated person, on par with most other luxury car owners, you might try using proper punctuation in your posts. That includes capitalization where appropriate.

3. As far as research goes, several people have posted on this forum that they have been dissuaded from buying a Hyundai because of the dealers. The person who started this thread claims that his experience at the 3 Hyundai dealers he visited were worse than all the other 40-odd car acquisitions he has made throughout the years.

 

[MattG]

I have never said that any Genesis owners are beneath me. In fact, my Genesis is the most expensive car I have ever owned, and I have the base model. I don't care much about prestige or showing off when it comes to cars. The car does not make the man. My previous car was a 1998 Toyota Camry.

What I tried to explain is two things:

1. The reason that car salespersons use the tactics they do is because they work, not because salespeople are evil people.

2. Historically Hyundai buyers (excluding Genesis buyers obviously) have been less educated, and had less money to spend on a car than even Honda or Toyota buyers, so some of the tactics may work better (be more profitable for the salesperson) on an inexperienced buyer than one who has purchased a lot of new cars previously. So that is why you see some of these tactics used by a Hyundai salesperson that would be less likely to be used in some other brands (but obviously there are other brands whose customers are just like Hyundai).

Is this a gross generalization? Certainly it is, and it does not fit every salesperson nor every Hyundai owner (even excluding Genesis owners). But in terms on general trends, it does seem (as noted by others, including the person who started this thread) that there is a "general" difference between Hyundai dealers and several other brands.

Since the quality of Hyundai cars has vastly improved in recent years, more people will be buying them because of their quality/features and not just because Hyundai is less expensive than the competition. But the sales force may find that making the transition to a different breed of customers will be tough, as has been noted by several people who have shied away from the Genesis just because of the (perceived) sleazy tactics of the dealers.

(emphasis added)

Kindly present evidence to back the claim that Hyundai buyers are less educated, or have less money. I doubt any such evidence will be forthcoming. The only thing that you can really say about Hyundai buyers is that they were willing to spend less money. Obviously there is a general correlation between educational level, and income, so of those people who went with Hyundai because it was the only brand that they could afford, there might well be a statistically notable difference in average education level, but that's about all that you can say. I got the distinct impression, however, that you were painting a picture of the "average" Hyundai buyer (Genesis excluded), and then extrapolating from that to come to all sorts of conclusions.

By the end of your post you talk about Hyundai transitioning to "a different breed" of customer. Different breed? This language has been used for centuries to justify race and class based discrimination.

This is prejudice pure and simple. A small sampling of experiences that fit a preconceived notion is not "being reasonable" it is confirmation bias. The evidence for this is the repeated ignoring of all of the positive dealership experiences that people have had. Evidence that does not reinforce the prejudice is discarded.