Highly Discouraged

[Mark_888]

(emphasis added)

Kindly present evidence to back the claim that Hyundai buyers are less educated, or have less money. I doubt any such evidence will be forthcoming. The only thing that you can really say about Hyundai buyers is that they were willing to spend less money. Obviously there is a general correlation between educational level, and income, so of those people who went with Hyundai because it was the only brand that they could afford, there might well be a statistically notable difference in average education level, but that's about all that you can say. I got the distinct impression, however, that you were painting a picture of the "average" Hyundai buyer (Genesis excluded), and then extrapolating from that to come to all sorts of conclusions.

By the end of your post you talk about Hyundai transitioning to "a different breed" of customer. Different breed? This language has been used for centuries to justify race and class based discrimination.

This is prejudice pure and simple. A small sampling of experiences that fit a preconceived notion is not "being reasonable" it is confirmation bias. The evidence for this is the repeated ignoring of all of the positive dealership experiences that people have had. Evidence that does not reinforce the prejudice is discarded.

Evidence? Evidence that the average Hyundai customer (not including Genesis) is less educated, makes less money, and has less new car buying experience than buyers of more upscale cars? You know perfectly well that I could not provide such evidence no matter how accurate my observations are. I am not in the business of gathering statistical information about car buyers, but you could contact JD Powers, etc and I am sure they could help you.

Regarding you comments about alleged racism, that is ridiculous. I was just making a comment that in the future many Hyundai dealers are going to have to quit using the sleazy tactics that work well with less educated and less affluent buyers if they really want to sell cars to more upscale customers. And yes, they are going to have to accept the American Express Card. Even Walmart takes AMX.

Now, if I had asked you whether you lived in a single-wide or a double-wide, that would have been a totally different thing altogether.

 

[MattG]

Evidence? Evidence that the average Hyundai customer (not including Genesis) is less educated, makes less money, and has less new car buying experience than buyers of more upscale cars? You know perfectly well that I could not provide such evidence no matter how accurate my observations are. I am not in the business of gathering statistical information about car buyers, but you could contact JD Powers, etc and I am sure they could help you.

The point is just that blanket statements have been made about Hyundai buyers as a group.

Regarding you comments about alleged racism, that is ridiculous. I was just making a comment that in the future many Hyundai dealers are going to have to quit using the sleazy tactics that work well with less educated and less affluent buyers if they really want to sell cars to more upscale customers. And yes, they are going to have to accept the American Express Card. Even Walmart takes AMX.

I never called you a racist, and if you took that from my message, I am truly apologetic. What I was accusing you of was prejudicial language, which I happened to find offensive. Only you know what you think, but I can certainly tell you how what you say (or in this case write) makes me feel.

Now, if I had asked you whether you lived in a single-wide or a double-wide, that would have been a totally different thing altogether.

LOL - that honestly made me laugh.

Peace.

 

[speakthetruth]

1. I never used the term "crooked car salesmen and dealers" so please get your facts straight.

2. If you want to present yourself as a highly educated person, on par with most other luxury car owners, you might try using proper punctuation in your posts. That includes capitalization where appropriate.

3. As far as research goes, several people have posted on this forum that they have been dissuaded from buying a Hyundai because of the dealers. The person who started this thread claims that his experience at the 3 Hyundai dealers he visited were worse than all the other 40-odd car acquisitions he has made throughout the years.

Lol, i knew you would respond with something about punctuation. This is a forum and i don't have to use correct forms of punctuation at all times...you understand exactly what i'm talking about.

Funny, i knew you would mention something about that anyway because you like to generalize people. I have a DEGREE in air traffic control and also sell these "low income cars" that your talking of. You are foolish and misguided to think that Hyundai dealers are the ones using sleazy tactics to sell their cars based off the intelligence and sophistication level of its former customers.

My point is ALL manufacturers dealers do it. No matter what the product. If you want to be honest...the people you are calling so intelligent (ie. lexus,beemer,acura, infiniti, benz buyers) are OBVIOUSLY not that smart if they can't even tell their paying 15-30k more for a car just because of a certain logo on the front and back end. i would'nt call that smart. I'd call it being naive as hell. Their the ones really getting taken for a ride.

Just like the president of toyota said "We need to focus on making BETTER products, not just focusing on how much MONEY we can make". Even they know their screwing people over. LMAO @ u.

 

[Sal Collaziano]

You are mistaken - and you know it. Nobody spends $15k-$30k more on a vehicle for a badge alone. Don't be ridiculous and make me have to type out everything that people get for spending more...

the people you are calling so intelligent (ie. lexus,beemer,acura, infiniti, benz buyers) are OBVIOUSLY not that smart if they can't even tell their paying 15-30k more for a car just because of a certain logo on the front and back end. i would'nt call that smart. I'd call it being naive as hell. Their the ones really getting taken for a ride.

 

[speakthetruth]

You are mistaken - and you know it. Nobody spends $15k-$30k more on a vehicle for a badge alone. Don't be ridiculous and make me have to type out everything that people get for spending more...

Please do so........please. So i can make you see how much you getting overcharged for nothing.

 

[MattG]

Please do so........please. So i can make you see how much you getting overcharged for nothing.

Dude, ease down.

You don't even have to go any further than materials to demonstrate that most premium cars have an advantage over their non-premium counterparts.

The problem is basic market segmentation - premium cars have a premium markup, so, in abstract terms, a premium car might cost 200% what a standard car in the same basic size range, but deliver only 150% of the car. If someone is merely looking to get the best bang for the buck, premium is almost never the way to go.

If someone is looking to get the nicest car that they can, regardless of price/value considerations, then premium almost certainly is the way to go.

There are always exceptions, where a savvy buyer can get a near premium experience at a near standard price (the Genesis is a great example of this IMHO).

A lot of people will drone on endlessly about "you get what you pay for" - well, I don't believe that. There are plenty of companies that will happily overcharge, but there is a variant of that saying which I feel accurately reflects reality most of the time: "You don't get what you don't pay for."

 

[Sal Collaziano]

Please do so........please. So i can make you see how much you getting overcharged for nothing.

Maybe you really do believe it. Sorry. I over-estimated you.

 

[jwaters943]

While I think speakthetruth is going way overboard, I do agree that in some cases you do pay a hefty premium for the badge on the hood. Even if you add up all the niceties on a TSX V6 vs. loaded Accord V6 EX-L (e.g. better warranty, slightly greater feature content, nicer dealership experience, etc.) you still don't have $6k worth of difference IMO. Same goes for the new Taurus vs. MKS, and many other cars I can think of.

Luxury car makers know that people in the market for a luxury car will pay a premium for the brand name. Most people are image/brand conscious. It's the same way with clothes, bottled water, or any other consumer goods. You can't tell me Evian or Voss are significantly superior products compared to Arrowhead or Aquafina, yet they command a hefty premium in the marketplace.

 

[BigElm]

Every car manufacturer has it's problems, even high end cars. I think Mark just used poor choice of words. You will find even the wealthy to not be as 'educated' when it comes to buying cars. Hyundai was known as a brand to sell to those with very tight budgets. Now that they're expanding, people are under the assumption that even those with very tight budgets can't have better, educated buying techniques than that who buys an MB, BMW, Lexus or whatever.

I strongly disagree that those who buy Hyundai are less educated or however you try to justify why customers get more screwed over at Hyundai dealers than at other brand dealers. I don't care if you bought a Suzuki because that's all you can afford. If you educated yourself in buying what's best for you, buying price and made sure you were treated well - then that's educated enough for me.

I can give you a laundry list of vehicles costing much more than the Genesis, that have problems; but I don't have the time nor get paid to do such thing But Google is your best friend.... Now, just put the Kool-Aid down!!!

 

[speakthetruth]

maybe i did with the dollar difference but yall get my drift. the point is your gettting charged thousands extra for stuff that actually costs 100's more to the manufacturer if that.

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[speakthetruth]

Maybe you really do believe it. Sorry. I over-estimated you.

still waiting on your reasoning behind such the drastic increase in price besides name and image..................

 

[speakthetruth]

If one's true image is really all of that..then they would have no problem showing people whats the best way to go for the money. Take a stand on overpriced items, not support them. So on and so forth. An individual with true self pride doesnt need others to smoodge their ego through a freaking piece of machinery. If they do, god help em'.

 

[Sal Collaziano]

still waiting on your reasoning behind such the drastic increase in price besides name and image..................

You're right if you feel that people are paying too much for "brand" vehicles. Hyundai reveals that very fact by offering so much product for such little cost. I do stand by my statement that you're buying more than just a badge, however. Between materials and service alone, I feel it's worth the extra money.

 

[sandy]

There is a concept in marketing called "psychic income"....that intangible reward a consumer receives over and above the nuts and bolts practical expectations. That is why there are luxury products in almost every category of merchandise. It doesn't matter if YOU think the price/value proposition for a particular product makes no sense....to the buyer making that choice it makes all the sense in the world...he is getting HIS money's worth because it makes him feel good. Why begrudge him that pleasure? And, besides, it's good for the economey.

 

[Mark_888]

You're right if you feel that people are paying too much for "brand" vehicles. Hyundai reveals that very fact by offering so much product for such little cost. I do stand by my statement that you're buying more than just a badge, however. Between materials and service alone, I feel it's worth the extra money.

Having recently traded-in a 1998 Toyota Camry XLE V6 in excellent condition that I owned for 11 years, I can tell you that quality does pay in the long run, even if you have to pay a little more up front. I think Hyundai quality has improved tremendously, but still not quite at the top of the heap, but hopefully will get there soon.

Luxury is not the same as quality. Some luxury cars are very expensive to purchase and to maintain, while others are relative bargains.

 

[Mark_888]

My point is ALL manufacturers dealers do it. No matter what the product. If you want to be honest...the people you are calling so intelligent (ie. lexus,beemer,acura, infiniti, benz buyers) are OBVIOUSLY not that smart if they can't even tell their paying 15-30k more for a car just because of a certain logo on the front and back end. i would'nt call that smart. I'd call it being naive as hell. Their the ones really getting taken for a ride.

Look, there is a difference in buying smart versus being smart enough to not fall for tricks and games played by car salesman. The later comes from experience in buying multiple new cars, and people with more money and better jobs (usually better educated and smarter) have had more new car buying experiences, so they are less tolerant of those games.

ABC news did a study one time that showed that women on average paid more for the exact same new car than men, presumably because they had less new car buying experience, and the salespeople knew that, and the salespeople knew how to take advantage of that situation.

We are talking about general tendencies here, and no one is suggesting that every Hyundai buyer (obviously not Genesis buyers) or every Hyundai salesperson fits into the characteristics I have described. Don't take it personally.

Now, as to whether one is smart in buying a BMW or MB, that is a matter of opinion, because many of those buyers are not just getting transportation, they are buying an image they can use to impress others with (including chicks). A $15,000 gold Rolex watch does not tell time as well as a $150 Seiko quartz watch, but people don't buy a Rolex these days because they want an accurate timepiece (even it that was the case many years ago). Now personally, I am not in the prestige thing at all (as I mentioned previously, my last car was a 1998 Toyota Camry), but some people are.

 

[Sal Collaziano]

Here's a lesson for those who need it. Image is very important in this society - whether you like it or not. Spending extra money on an "image" automobile gets you returns in various areas in life. Don't believe me? Well let me prove you wrong RIGHT NOW.

Let's say YOU'RE the supervisor of the billing department at the company you work for. There are two female applicants - both of equal intelligence, experience, education, etcetera.. As far as you can tell, they'd both do the job as well as the other and you're confident either one would serve you well. However, one is quite a bit more attractive than the other. Not so hot that you'd have no chance with her - and not so hot that she'd distract the entire office - but she has an appearance that pleases you. The other, (in my best Borat, whom I hate) "not so much" (to put it mildly)... Which one would you pick?

No need to answer my rhetorical question...

And there you have "image". Have you ever seen the handsome homeless? I've been hired at companies more than once (I used to work in offices) because the female boss was attracted to me. I couldn't even do the job - but I got it - simply because the woman liked my appearance. I've been given raises and promotions at large companies because of the car I happened to be driving. In that case, the boss must have felt I was an accomplished young man (28 years old with a mint condition Cadillac Eldorado Touring Coupe when they were still new). Before she saw my car, I was just some young punk with very long hair - but once she saw the car, I was "the man".

Make believe image doesn't mean anything ALL YOU WANT. You are wrong.

 

[Mark_888]

Here's a lesson for those who need it. Image is very important in this society - whether you like it or not. Spending extra money on an "image" automobile gets you returns in various areas in life. Don't believe me? Well let me prove you wrong RIGHT NOW.

Let's say YOU'RE the supervisor of the billing department at the company you work for. There are two female applicants - both of equal intelligence, experience, education, etcetera.. As far as you can tell, they'd both do the job as well as the other and you're confident either one would serve you well. However, one is quite a bit more attractive than the other. Not so hot that you'd have no chance with her - and not so hot that she'd distract the entire office - but she has an appearance that pleases you. The other, (in my best Borat, whom I hate) "not so much" (to put it mildly)... Which one would you pick?

No need to answer my rhetorical question...

And there you have "image". Have you ever seen the handsome homeless? I've been hired at companies more than once (I used to work in offices) because the female boss was attracted to me. I couldn't even do the job - but I got it - simply because the woman liked my appearance. I've been given raises and promotions at large companies because of the car I happened to be driving. In that case, the boss must have felt I was an accomplished young man (28 years old with a mint condition Cadillac Eldorado Touring Coupe when they were still new). Before she saw my car, I was just some young punk with very long hair - but once she saw the car, I was "the man".

Make believe image doesn't mean anything ALL YOU WANT. You are wrong.

The image thing does depend on whether your boss is a female or male. John Malloy's famous book "Dress for Success" pointed out that if you work for a female you have to dress differently and you may need whole new wardrobe. Women are very much into image, and they like to have a stable of good-looking studs around them (that is their way of having prestige).

Malloy also pointed out, that being too extravagant can hurt you in some situations. For example, he said that if you wear silk shirts, your boss is going to assume you have money to burn, and you will not be getting as big a raise as the slob with a large family to feed (or course if your boss is female, then things are a lot more complicated).

Image can even help pan-handlers. Malloy conducted many of his tests by wearing different clothing while pan-handling (or claiming he lost his wallet) and tallying the results. For example, he found that a wearing a beige topcoat will bring in more money than a dark blue or black one.

 

[Sal Collaziano]

All true.. Now even the male will often pick the man who appears to be in better shape - for other reasons. The man in better shape will appear to have more self-respect and self-discipline. The fat, lazy guy will more often than not lose that battle. Even bald men have a hill to climb here. Yes, this is all very shallow - but it's a fact of life.

Now if the male boss has serious self-esteem issues, he may choose otherwise for various reasons - such as:

1. Not drawing too much of the attention of the opposite sex away from himself
2. Having a hatred of people he may have had bad experiences with in the past (getting picked on, for example)

Psychology is fun...

The image thing does depend on whether your boss is a female or male. John Malloy's famous book "Dress for Success" pointed out that if you work for a female you have to dress differently and you may need whole new wardrobe. Women are very much into image, and they like to have a stable of good-looking studs around them (that is their way of having prestige).

Malloy also pointed out, that being too extravagant can hurt you in some situations. For example, he said that if you wear silk shirts, your boss is going to assume you have money to burn, and you will not be getting as big a raise as the slob with a large family to feed (or course if your boss is female, then things are a lot more complicated).

Image can even help pan-handlers. Malloy conducted many of his tests by wearing different clothing while pan-handling (or claiming he lost his wallet) and tallying the results. For example, he found that a wearing a beige topcoat will bring in more money than a dark blue or black one.

 

[jwaters943]

All this discussion of image cracks me up. Of course it's true that in certain situations the image you portray can benefit/harm you, but in many other instances it's a completely shallow, empty endeavour to focus so much attention on one's image. Working out more, getting plastic surgery, wearing the right clothes, or buying an expensive car simply to keep up with or better others should not be anyone's goal in life.

In most cases you're working hard to impress people you don't know or like. What's the point in that?