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Hyundai Genesis, Equus to get 10-speed automatic transmission in 2014

TJPark01

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Hyundai Genesis, Equus to get 10-speed automatic transmission in 2014

Hyundai-Kia Automotive Group working on a 10-speed automatic transmission!

According to latest reports from worldwide automotive media, Hyundai is working on a 10-speed automatic transmission!

It’s only been a few months since Hyundai introduced its first-ever 8-speed automatic transmission and now the automaker is wasting no time to develop the worlds first 10-speed automatic gearbox!

Reportedly, the all-new automatic transmission is being developed specifically for the luxury models and will be available in certain Hyundai vehicles starting from 2014.

Hyundai Motor Group president Park Seong Hyon revealed the new gearbox will likely be used in the next-generation Hyundai Equus and Genesis luxury sedans, as well as in Genesis Coupe replacement.

Other Hyundai vehicles that could benefit from the new gearbox include the next-generation Veracruz CUV and Santa Fe crossover vehicle, which is scheduled to debut in 2012.

The forth-coming 10-speed automatic transmission is being jointly developed by Hyundai and Kia, which means it will most certainly also find its way in to the future versions of large-sized Kia vehicles. The new tranny is expected to help Hyundai and Kia to further reduce the fuel-consumption of their luxury cars.
 
Perhaps it is a strategy for Hyundia to comply with fleet economy ratings, and not something asked for, or desired, by users.

It seems to me that the hesitations in performance associated with many-speed transmissions are annoying to users. It's one thing to smoothly accelerate and then drive on and a very different thing to drive in stop and go traffic. I sometimes find that my transmission gets confused when decelerating and then commanded to accelerate. Reading here and in other forums indicates that the more speeds you have the more that your transmission will get confused and hesitate. Kind of like humans ... too many choices yields confusion!
 
10-speed is pure advertising.

There is no mass population that could take advantage of individual cogs in that transmission.

This is purely a marketing play between cogs and CVT. I like occasionally playing with transmission gears, but 10 versus 5 or 6 is just silly unless the engine has a very limited HP/torque range.

I have a very hard time believing that 10-speed is more cost-effective that a CVT transmission.

Other than the proven, or not, reliability of CVT versus any other individual brand ...
(Subaru comes to mind ... they seem to do pretty well with CVT)
 
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10-speed is pure advertising.

There is no mass population that could take advantage of individual cogs in that transmission.

This is purely a marketing play between cogs and CVT. I like occasionally playing with transmission gears, but 10 versus 5 or 6 is just silly unless the engine has a very limited HP/torque range.

I have a very hard time believing that 10-speed is more cost-effective that a CVT transmission.

Other than the proven, or not, reliability of CVT versus any other individual brand ...
(Subaru comes to mind ... they seem to do pretty well with CVT)

Great points Jim. I think 10 gears is nuts, and I wouldn't buy anything with that many. I'm also a huge Subaru fan, but I think they have ruined their cars with that stupid CVT. Other choice is a 5 speed which is quite dated, but Subaru has been known to find something their good at and stick with it for a long time. This is why I think they are way behind in the auto market. No DI engines, and I think Subi's should be more powerful with the last generation Sonata V6 leaving with 250hp, while Subaru's 3.6R has 256. That thing should be over 300hp now a days.
 
i'd much prefer a 10 gear to a cvt. everyone i've driven has felt artificial. maybe that will change in the future. but a confused 10 speed is still a superior option especially if it has a manumatic feature. as an aside my x5 has 8 gears and i've never noticed it getting confused.
 
Don't even want to think of the cost when it comes time to replace it.
 
lets just hope that it down shifts quicker than the current 8 speed.
i test drove the new 8 speed w/ the 4.6 and trying to get her to " quickly" drop a gear on the freeway is like pulling teeth- just takes too long imo.
 
I don't want to turn this into a political discussion but it seems that the federal mandates on fuel economy are really driving these decisions on transmissions well ahead of the engineering. Rather than the mandates i'd rather let people pick the cars with the features of their choice. We're adults - if you want a car that gets 15 mpg and can live with the costs so be it. If you want 40 mpg there are plenty of options. l say live and let live. Let the manufacturers get back to engineering transmissions based on consumer needs instead of government fiat.

just my 2 cents.
 
CVT's of today cannot handle the HP and Torque of Big V8's and Sixes as well as a traditional geared transmission. The new trannies are all about mpg, and, make no dobut about silliness, they will be effective.
 
I don't want to turn this into a political discussion but it seems that the federal mandates on fuel economy are really driving these decisions on transmissions well ahead of the engineering.

Bingo! The ever-looming CAFE regulations are the 600 lb gorilla in the back seat. If they can squeeze another mile or two out of a 10-speed, a couple more by dropping weight, and a couple more by another means then that will be a great way to avoid totally redesigning a car, or at least allow for larger cars (which we love in North America.) I think this is more about 5-10 years from now than it is about 2012/2013. All car manufacturers will be pulling every rabbit out of the hat they can find.
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How many reverse gears?!!
 
We're adults - if you want a car that gets 15 mpg and can live with the costs so be it. If you want 40 mpg there are plenty of options.

I agree. In fact, the CAFE regulations are simply an expression of our political system. Politicians want to be re-elected. By using the CAFE mandates, they get bitched at by the auto companies in hearings that few people pay attention to but the general public doesn't push back. The smarter way is to let Adam Smith's invisible hand move things. How? Simple: massive gas taxes. If there were no CAFE regulations but via taxes your gas cost $5/gal at the pump, think we'd see a change in buyer behavior? :D

But the beauty of a system like that would be that people would be free to make the decision about whether they were willing to pay the tax. They'd vote by what type of car they bought. It's a much more elegant solution than simply mandating a fleet average and having gas guzzler taxes.

Of course that system stands zero chance of being implemented because the outcry from voters would be apocalyptic.
 
Acoga i'm a big fan of Adam Smith and a massive tax on gas or anything isnt the invisible hand. Like CAFE a massive tax is a market distortion. The tax is probably less disruptive than CAFE but its still not the free market.

As for the reason we don't go the tax route, I doubt its because of the uproar. Most european countries have dramatically higher tax rates and their masses haven't risen up. I think we have CAFE because it guarantees that we all suffer equally. If they taxed gas massively some of us would just work harder and earn enough to drive whatever we want. That can not be allowed.
 
I agree. In fact, the CAFE regulations are simply an expression of our political system. Politicians want to be re-elected. By using the CAFE mandates, they get bitched at by the auto companies in hearings that few people pay attention to but the general public doesn't push back. The smarter way is to let Adam Smith's invisible hand move things. How? Simple: massive gas taxes. If there were no CAFE regulations but via taxes your gas cost $5/gal at the pump, think we'd see a change in buyer behavior? :D

But the beauty of a system like that would be that people would be free to make the decision about whether they were willing to pay the tax. They'd vote by what type of car they bought. It's a much more elegant solution than simply mandating a fleet average and having gas guzzler taxes.

Of course that system stands zero chance of being implemented because the outcry from voters would be apocalyptic.
I totally agree with you. Like much of western Europe, we should also have $7-8 per gallon gas. It's the only way we will consume less gas and be less dependent on OPEC.
Of course then I would not have bought the 4.6 :)
 
Acoga i'm a big fan of Adam Smith and a massive tax on gas or anything isnt the invisible hand. Like CAFE a massive tax is a market distortion. The tax is probably less disruptive than CAFE but its still not the free market.

As for the reason we don't go the tax route, I doubt its because of the uproar. Most european countries have dramatically higher tax rates and their masses haven't risen up. I think we have CAFE because it guarantees that we all suffer equally. If they taxed gas massively some of us would just work harder and earn enough to drive whatever we want. That can not be allowed.
I don't think there is any more "equal suffering" with CAFE than there is with high taxes on fuel. CAFE only requires an average MPG for a particular manufacturer, so they can still make some cars with larger engines. In Europe, relatively few (compared to US) BMW and MB owners drive cars with more than 4 cylinders because of high fuel prices.

A high tax on gas has its own problems. Money is siphoned out the private sector economy and used for things by government that has nothing to do with transportation. Outrageously high taxes also leads to corruption, where retailers collect the tax and don't pay it to government (just as most mom-and-pop restaurants, and virtually everyone who works for tips, now skims money off the top so they don't have to pay all their income taxes). Even when gas is taxed at the wholesale level, criminals will sell it on the black market to avoid taxes (as already happens to some degree today).

Also, high fuel prices (because of extremely high taxes) causes transportation costs to go up dramatically, and everything gets more expensive.
 
Which is the goal - consume less gas or be less dependent on Opec. if the latter we could drill baby drill right here in the good old USA and open up more nuclear plants and kick OPECto the curb.

I suspect the goal is just to get all Americans to just generally use less energy, period. I'm a big boy and I think I can decide for myself how much energy I need to consume.
 
Which is the goal - consume less gas or be less dependent on Opec. if the latter we could drill baby drill right here in the good old USA and open up more nuclear plants and kick OPECto the curb.

I suspect the goal is just to get all Americans to just generally use less energy, period. I'm a big boy and I think I can decide for myself how much energy I need to consume.
There is nothing in CAFE that prevents you from consuming energy, or buying cars with large engines (or prevents car manufacturers from making cars with large engines). If you were to go to Europe where the government has artificially raised the price of gas, you would see that they have much fewer choices for buying cars with large engines than we have in the US, so I don't understand your point at all.
 
Wow. How did the OP's comment turn into such a policital discussion? :confused:

Technically, a 10-speed transmission has never been tried in the commercial auto market, so it's seems to be a calculated risk by Hyundai (and probably other manufacturers who are thinking about it, if not working on it) to try to work on reducing their impact on CAFE to improve their bottom dollar.

My problem is: Multiple gears result in multiple opportunities for failures. When do we stop: 20, 50, 100 gears? What makes sense versus the multiple opportunities for failure versus what the average driver really needs (or what gov't demands)? No doubt the combustion engine is complex, but it's had many decades to evolve. Transmissions have not had that luxury (yet) that I'm aware of.

As for the question of gears vs CVT: There are options for a change of technology out there, they just aren't marketable because of volume, cost and acceptance.

Here's one example: http://www.fti-cvt.com/CVT.htm

Just thinking ...
 
Mark have you not spent much time in Europe? They actually have a far greater variety of engine choices than we do. In the US it a federal crime not to meet CAFE fleet average. There is no Eurozone equivalent. Gas price influences buyer selection but if you wish to sell 10.0 liter gas hogs there have at it.

The outrageous 50 plus mpg CAFE requirement here will dramatically eliminate engine variety as it has already begun to do at the lower levels. in 3years or less the 5.0 liter Genesis will history along with other so called fuel inefficient vehicles. That's called less choice.

And since we have a vastsupply of energy right here in the good old US of A that we leave untapped I conclude the goal is somehow to make Americans better global energy citizens instead of addressing any over-reliance on OPEC.
 
Mark have you not spent much time in Europe? They actually have a far greater variety of engine choices than we do. In the US it a federal crime not to meet CAFE fleet average. There is no Eurozone equivalent. Gas price influences buyer selection but if you wish to sell 10.0 liter gas hogs there have at it.

The outrageous 50 plus mpg CAFE requirement here will dramatically eliminate engine variety as it has already begun to do at the lower levels. in 3years or less the 5.0 liter Genesis will history along with other so called fuel inefficient vehicles. That's called less choice.

And since we have a vastsupply of energy right here in the good old US of A that we leave untapped I conclude the goal is somehow to make Americans better global energy citizens instead of addressing any over-reliance on OPEC.
Yes I have been to Europe and the vast majority of cars sold there (including MB and BMW) have 4 cyl engines. Same applies to Asia.

The assertion that we don't have a lot of engine choices in the US is extremely misleading. One only needs to look at the Genesis sedan in the US where average engine size is larger than for Genesis sedans sold in Korea (and elsewhere outside of US). For example, the Genesis sedan with the 3.3L engine that is sold in Korea is not even sold in the US. If we have fewer engine choices in the US, it is almost always because we are not offered the smallest engines sold elsewhere (and I don’t think you are complaining about that). Same applies to BMW, where in Germany you can get the BMW 520i and 528i, both with 4 cyl engines (not to mention the BMW 520d and 525d 4 cyl diesel engines). In Germany, you can get a BMW 7-Series with a 6 cyl engine.

I am not sure what you are talking about with criminal penalties, since AFAIK there are only fines for not meeting targets, so in theory the fines could be passed to the consumer for each car sold if CAFE numbers are not meet for the fleet. So one may have to pay more for a gas guzzler up front, instead of paying more for fuel that has been doubled in price due to taxes. Also, automakers can buy or sell CAFE credits from/to other automakers. Obviously, if one does not pay the fine owed, there would be criminal penalties.

Note that MPG ratings for CAFE are significantly different than EPA ratings. Over the years EPA ratings for MPG have been adjusted to better approximate what actual consumers will achieve. For the purposes of CAFE, however, there's a different calculation that's far more optimistic in terms of fuel economy. Thus a car that achieves 35 mpg for purposes of the CAFE calculation will likely wear an EPA window sticker that has a combined (highway/city) rating of somewhere around 26 to 27 miles per gallon.

Not sure where you got the 50 MPG number from. By year 2020 a car with footprint size of MB S-Class (similar in size to Genesis sedan) is targeted for 36 MPG according to CAFE ratings, or 27 MPG combined (highway/city) according to EPA ratings. By year 2025, these increase to 46 and 34 MPG respectively. Remember, these are not hard requirements, just numbers that feed into the overall corporate fleet calculation that determines whether the manufacturer has to pay a fine or needs to buy credits. If the smaller cars for a particular manufacturer are better than CAFE requirements, then the manufacturer can produce other large engine cars that do not meet CAFE targets without having to pay a fine, so long as the fleet average is OK (based on weighted average of number of units sold). Looks to me like Hyundai is well-postioned in that regard.

In addition, smaller volume automakers that sold fewer than 400,000 cars in 2009 will get a break on the requirements while "specialty automakers" such as BMW and Porsche will get longer lead-in times.

I am not necessarily endorsing any specific CAFE targets, or even endorsing CAFE itself, but doubling the cost of gas with additional taxes would destroy the US economy. The cost of gas does not just affect what cars consumers buy, but also the cost of almost everything that requires transportation or fuel for other reasons (such as farm tractors). In the US right now, unemployment is over 9%. Those are normal numbers for most of Europe even when they are not in a recession, so I am not eager to follow any of their economic models or advice.
 
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