Hyundai vs Genesis

[morrisdpm]

I recently leased a 2016 Genesis 3.8 and I absolutely love the car. It is amazing to drive and the amenities are an incredible value. But at the risk of sounding petty, I am very disappointed in the apparent "exclusion" of the Hyundai Genesis owners from the benefits of the new Genesis brand. We have bought into a luxury brand of automobile and during the transition between Hyundai and the Genesis brands, those of us who bought Hyundai are being left out of the official inclusion of the Genesis brand. I spoke to the customer care group a couple of weeks ago and they confirmed that fact. No other luxury brand of cars excludes those who buy into their brand. I have been a part of other high end brands and they are not exclusive of their owners. What I mean are things like loaner cars for scheduled service, some period of scheduled maintenance, etc. Additionally, my buying experience at my particular Hyundai dealer was the worst in my 30 years of purchasing cars - this my be dealer specific, but not one any other luxury dealer would put up with. Again, it is not about the money, but about the loyalty to those who believe in the car, even before they launched the new brand. Thanks for hearing me out, and I would appreciate hearing if others have had similar experiences or if you see differently.

 

[Mark_888]

I recently leased a 2016 Genesis 3.8 and I absolutely love the car. It is amazing to drive and the amenities are an incredible value. But at the risk of sounding petty, I am very disappointed in the apparent "exclusion" of the Hyundai Genesis owners from the benefits of the new Genesis brand. We have bought into a luxury brand of automobile and during the transition between Hyundai and the Genesis brands, those of us who bought Hyundai are being left out of the official inclusion of the Genesis brand. I spoke to the customer care group a couple of weeks ago and they confirmed that fact. No other luxury brand of cars excludes those who buy into their brand. I have been a part of other high end brands and they are not exclusive of their owners. What I mean are things like loaner cars for scheduled service, some period of scheduled maintenance, etc. Additionally, my buying experience at my particular Hyundai dealer was the worst in my 30 years of purchasing cars - this my be dealer specific, but not one any other luxury dealer would put up with. Again, it is not about the money, but about the loyalty to those who believe in the car, even before they launched the new brand. Thanks for hearing me out, and I would appreciate hearing if others have had similar experiences or if you see differently.

This subject has previously been beaten to death in other threads. But here are some things to consider.

1. What other vehicles were sold as one brand, and then changed brands for newer cars, and older cars get all the same perks of the new brands?
2. There are luxury brands like BMW and Mercedes that offer complimentary scheduled maintenance, etc, for the first few years of service, but those deals are model year specific as to when that program was offered, and not provided for all previous model years. This is same as when a warranty term is changed, it is model year specific.
3. Separate Genesis dealers cannot be expected to maintain parts and technical expertise for all previous model year of the Genesis. That would be too costly.
4. Dealer labor reimbursement for warranty work, and well as spare parts costs, are likely to be higher for a Genesis dealer than a Hyundai dealer since they will be expected to pay more to attract higher quality employees (just like all other luxury brands). We see this for the exact same parts shared by Hyundai and Kia where you can get the same Mobis part cheaper from Kia. The cost of running the a separate Genesis dealer network, with far less dealers and less sales volume per dealer than Hyundai, will force costs higher (and end prices higher to consumers) for Genesis parts and service due to less economy of scale.
5. There aren't very many Genesis dealers around yet, as that will take about 3-5 years to build the separate dealer network.
6. You can certainly visit a Genesis dealer for non-warranty service anytime you want.

 

[silberma]

I believe that the prices for the Genesis models was increased to reflect the additional services offered. So you get what you pay for.

 

[morrisdpm]

Thank you guys for the feedback, much appreciated. Sorry I am late to this debate. I have been a Hyundai fan for years - I lived in Korea as a kid when the first Hyundai Pony's were introduced and have owned a late model Sonata as well. As I said, I really like the car but was surprised that given it was a new brand that they would exclude some as they were trying to build the new brand loyalty. Understand the perspective and thanks again.

 

[glennk]

I can understand why Hyundai owners are excluded from free service. But everything else, loan cars, Genesis events and the like should be extended. Genesis is attempting to build a long term customer base. By exempting Hyundai Genesis and Equuis owners, there may well be an impact.

 

[Mark_888]

I can understand why Hyundai owners are excluded from free service. But everything else, loan cars, Genesis events and the like should be extended. Genesis is attempting to build a long term customer base. By exempting Hyundai Genesis and Equuis owners, there may well be an impact.

If Genesis dealers offered free loaner cars (as they do), and Hyundai dealers did not do that (it is up to the dealer), then everyone would take their Hyundai Genesis to a Genesis dealer for service, and there could not possibly be enough loaner cars available, especially considering that there will not be very many Genesis dealers compared to Hyundai dealers. Besides, Genesis dealers cannot offer warranty service on a Hyundai Genesis for reasons I explained above.

As far as "events," Hyundai Genesis owners have been invited to Genesis events throughout the US. I don't know what other events you are talking about.

 

[dougmcp]

Unfortunately there are no stand alone Genesis dealers that I know of yet. Basically the G80 and G90 is are on the same Hyundai plane just located in the first class section and they are just making a delineation between Hyundai and Genesis service. Personally I think without separate check in area, service writers, waiting room etc the service experience will be limited to concierge service and a free loaner.
I think Hyundai dropped the ball here and should have had dealerships built in major population areas before they changed the models and split off the G80/90 to a new brand. Without some serious commitment here from the Genesis brand this whole venture may be doomed to fail and brought back to the Hyundai dealers.

 

[Mark_888]

Unfortunately there are no stand alone Genesis dealers that I know of yet. Basically the G80 and G90 is are on the same Hyundai plane just located in the first class section and they are just making a delineation between Hyundai and Genesis service. Personally I think without separate check in area, service writers, waiting room etc the service experience will be limited to concierge service and a free loaner.
I think Hyundai dropped the ball here and should have had dealerships built in major population areas before they changed the models and split off the G80/90 to a new brand. Without some serious commitment here from the Genesis brand this whole venture may be doomed to fail and brought back to the Hyundai dealers.

BY law in USA, dealers cannot be owned by the manufacturer. Each dealer must put up several million dollars of their own money to start a dealership (although they can get "some" support from Hyundai such as loans for part of the money).

If you are interested in starting a Genesis dealership, I would contact Hyundai Motor America or Genesis Motors and let them know. Good luck with your investment !!!

Genesis Motors needs to flush out its product line with a couple of SUV/CUV's and a smaller sedan/coupe before a stand alone Genesis dealer can be economically viable. All of those new models are expected to be released the next 2-3 years based on information provided to the media by Genesis Motors.

 

[morrisdpm]

It looks to me that Genesis/Hyundai is being short-sighted. It doesn't really cost that much to offer select services, such as a loaners, and they could have a limited number on a first-come first-served basis, similar to our BMW dealership. You cant really build a strong brand by excluding those that are loyal, or are for now.

 

[AustinTX]

It looks to me that Genesis/Hyundai is being short-sighted. It doesn't really cost that much to offer select services, such as a loaners, and they could have a limited number on a first-come first-served basis, similar to our BMW dealership. You cant really build a strong brand by excluding those that are loyal, or are for now.

My thoughts exactly, but expect to be called a freeloader that wants services "that weren't paid for" on this forum, and worse. Hyundai/Genesis had an excellent opportunity to turn thousands of owners of the 2015+ model year Hyundai Genesis sedans into loyal Genesis brand followers at little cost (hell, I would pay for the value of the extra perks given to the Genesis G80 owners who have the same exact vehicle I drive with a different badge). Alas, they chose not to do that, and given my experience with my vehicle and with Hyundai so far, I will not be a return customer to the Genesis brand. My experience with my 2015 model (which I have had for exactly one year) has been pretty abysmal.

The Genesis brand experience will be 100% the same as the Hyundai experience, because it's the same dealerships, the same service departments, the same sales folks. Hyundai as a brand is used to dealing with bargain hunters and people who need low cost cars. That's how they sell and that's how their sales people are trained - just sitting in the service area at three different Hyundai dealerships made it clear to me that this is a different level of buyer than an Audi, BMW or Mercedes-Benz customer. Getting to watch 2 hours of loud trash TV (some dumb show like Judge Judy, or other brain-cell-killing type of TV that I would not force my worst enemy to watch) while waiting to get my car services (free water though) is not my idea of a luxury car owning experience ...

I have another meeting with a Hyundai representative tomorrow to resolve three issues that have not been resolved after 5+ visits to the service department. I don't have time to waste driving to and from service departments every month and I am getting tired of the excuses and the total lack of regard for my money (the monthly payment I make for my car, insurance, satellite radio, BlueLink, etc.) and my time (which is even worse). Once I have a better picture of what Hyundai is willing to do for me I'll start a new thread to detail my worst car ownership experience in the past 16 years ...

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[Mark_888]

It looks to me that Genesis/Hyundai is being short-sighted. It doesn't really cost that much to offer select services, such as a loaners, and they could have a limited number on a first-come first-served basis, similar to our BMW dealership. You cant really build a strong brand by excluding those that are loyal, or are for now.

Genesis Motors provides free pickup and delivery service for maintenance, scheduled or warranty. I am sure that if you buy a G80 that you can get a free loaner instead of the pickup and delivery service. I don't think they can guarantee that your loaner will be a G80, but they should give you something.

I don't know what you mean by "loyal." For example, BMW provides free scheduled maintenance service, however the terms of that are model year specific (and even sales date specific in some cases):

"All model year 2017 BMW vehicles and newer, come with BMW Ultimate Care standard for up to 3 years or 36,000 miles whichever comes first. For model year 2015 or 2016 vehicles sold or leased by an authorized BMW center on or after July 1, 2014, the BMW Maintenance Program is provided for the first 4 years or 50,000 miles whichever comes first. BMW Ultimate Care and the BMW Maintenance Program are available to the exclusive benefit of the initial purchaser, owner, or lessee of a new vehicle, sales demonstrator vehicle."​

It looks to me that prior to July 1, 2014, BMW did not provide this service for free. Previous BMW model years do not appear to have been grandfathered in. Also, notice that with 2017 models, the reduced the length of free scheduled maintenance.

 

[morrisdpm]

Thanks for the heads up AustinTX. But interestingly, while others have claimed that the cost of the G80 is more than the Hyundai Genesis for the extra services, it really isn't. The difference in sticker price between my 2016 and a similar 2017 G80 is $700. That is really the amount manufacturers increase in model years, so really there is not a significant price difference. Really disappointed to hear about your experience with your Genesis. I had a pretty bad dealer experience with the purchase of my Genesis - worst in over 30 years of buying cars. Too bad really, because so far after 7 months, I really like the car.

 

[glennk]

If Genesis dealers offered free loaner cars (as they do), and Hyundai dealers did not do that (it is up to the dealer), then everyone would take their Hyundai Genesis to a Genesis dealer for service, and there could not possibly be enough loaner cars available, especially considering that there will not be very many Genesis dealers compared to Hyundai dealers. Besides, Genesis dealers cannot offer warranty service on a Hyundai Genesis for reasons I explained above.

As far as "events," Hyundai Genesis owners have been invited to Genesis events throughout the US. I don't know what other events you are talking about.

All of your statements are based upon your views. Where I'm at, the dealers do not offer loaners to non-Genesis owners. As for loaner reimbursement, that comes from Corporate. When Genesis only dealers do show, service costs will reflect that change I assure you. As for availability of loan cars, that will depend solely upon how much Genesis/Hyundai will cover.

- - - Updated - - -

My thoughts exactly, but expect to be called a freeloader that wants services "that weren't paid for" on this forum, and worse. Hyundai/Genesis had an excellent opportunity to turn thousands of owners of the 2015+ model year Hyundai Genesis sedans into loyal Genesis brand followers at little cost (hell, I would pay for the value of the extra perks given to the Genesis G80 owners who have the same exact vehicle I drive with a different badge). Alas, they chose not to do that, and given my experience with my vehicle and with Hyundai so far, I will not be a return customer to the Genesis brand. My experience with my 2015 model (which I have had for exactly one year) has been pretty abysmal.

The Genesis brand experience will be 100% the same as the Hyundai experience, because it's the same dealerships, the same service departments, the same sales folks. Hyundai as a brand is used to dealing with bargain hunters and people who need low cost cars. That's how they sell and that's how their sales people are trained - just sitting in the service area at three different Hyundai dealerships made it clear to me that this is a different level of buyer than an Audi, BMW or Mercedes-Benz customer. Getting to watch 2 hours of loud trash TV (some dumb show like Judge Judy, or other brain-cell-killing type of TV that I would not force my worst enemy to watch) while waiting to get my car services (free water though) is not my idea of a luxury car owning experience ...

I have another meeting with a Hyundai representative tomorrow to resolve three issues that have not been resolved after 5+ visits to the service department. I don't have time to waste driving to and from service departments every month and I am getting tired of the excuses and the total lack of regard for my money (the monthly payment I make for my car, insurance, satellite radio, BlueLink, etc.) and my time (which is even worse). Once I have a better picture of what Hyundai is willing to do for me I'll start a new thread to detail my worst car ownership experience in the past 16 years ...

Exactly. Although my chosen dealer does have a decent waiting area. Was impressed that they had a cappuccino machine, breakfast bars and comfortable chairs.

 

[Comp1]

I share many of the sentiments expressed here. I came to Hyundai from Volvo when the new 15 Genesis was released. Our local Hyundai dealership didn't then and doesn't now have much of a reputation for either sales or service (from what I read online). My sales experience was very very good but unfortunately the sales manager that made it such a good experience left shortly after my transaction. While the car is not bad and has some pretty good technology the abysmal service experience has overshadowed any joy/pleasure that I feel for the car. I have absolutely no confidence that the service dept can do anything right with respect to basic maintenance (currently 0-3 on performed service). At no point whatsoever in my Hyundai Genesis experience have I ever experienced anything remotely "premium". All staff appear to be trained one way and one way only; bare bones transportation and the customer that buys the bare bones vehicle (even though Hyundai sells well optioned vehicles). I think Hyundai missed a huge opportunity here and will lose many Genesis/Equus customers long before any dedicated Genesis dealerships open. Once my lease is up I'm heading back to Volvo where I can count on a more respectful and professional level of customer service. I'm sure I will not be alone.

 

[Mark_888]

All of your statements are based upon your views. Where I'm at, the dealers do not offer loaners to non-Genesis owners. As for loaner reimbursement, that comes from Corporate. When Genesis only dealers do show, service costs will reflect that change I assure you. As for availability of loan cars, that will depend solely upon how much Genesis/Hyundai will cover.

Everyone's statements are based on their own views.

I am not sure what you mean by "dealers do not offer loaners to non-Genesis owners." Do you mean non-Genesis G80/G90 owners, or are you talking about Hyundai dealers who sold the Hyundai Genesis (2009-206)? Current Hyundai dealers are not obligated to provide any Hyundai owners with a loaner (except for Equus, and 2017 G80 and G90 models if the Hyundai dealer still sells those.)

If dedicated Genesis Motors dealers were expected to provide free loaners to all previous Genesis owners (2009-2016), they would not have enough loaners to go around. I kind of doubt your assertion that Genesis Motors will reimburse dealers for loaners on the 2017 models, but not sure what kind of reimbursement is involved in the concierge service (pick up and deliver of the car). My suspicion is that it is built into the pricing, dealer profit, and warranty reimbursement labor rate, but not sure.

- - - Updated - - -

I share many of the sentiments expressed here. I came to Hyundai from Volvo when the new 15 Genesis was released. Our local Hyundai dealership didn't then and doesn't now have much of a reputation for either sales or service (from what I read online). My sales experience was very very good but unfortunately the sales manager that made it such a good experience left shortly after my transaction. While the car is not bad and has some pretty good technology the abysmal service experience has overshadowed any joy/pleasure that I feel for the car. I have absolutely no confidence that the service dept can do anything right with respect to basic maintenance (currently 0-3 on performed service). At no point whatsoever in my Hyundai Genesis experience have I ever experienced anything remotely "premium". All staff appear to be trained one way and one way only; bare bones transportation and the customer that buys the bare bones vehicle (even though Hyundai sells well optioned vehicles). I think Hyundai missed a huge opportunity here and will lose many Genesis/Equus customers long before any dedicated Genesis dealerships open. Once my lease is up I'm heading back to Volvo where I can count on a more respectful and professional level of customer service. I'm sure I will not be alone.

It's not clear what you expect Hyundai or Genesis Motors to do right now. Everyone knows the sales experience is terrible, because they are used to selling lower priced cars to people who cannot afford a Honda or Toyota. Many Hyundai buyers have traditionally been first time new-car buyers, and most likely to be targets of shady sales tactics.

They are in the process of creating a separate Genesis Motors dealerships network. It will take time because they need hundreds of investors to buy a dealership (land, buildings, working capital, etc), and they don't even have a full line of vehicles to sell yet (SUV, CUV, and small sedan are coming within 2-3 years, maybe sooner).

By the time you are ready to buy again, you can probably determine whether or not the new Genesis Motors meets your standards. But I think the vast majority of people bought their cars from a Hyundai dealership knowing all the problems, but lured by the price of the car and discounts being offered by dealers. Don't expect those huge discounts at a dedicated Genesis Motors dealer.

 

[Seejay]

Genesis is starting with two models, same as Accura, Infiniti, and Lexus. I wonder if that is enough nowadays to get a healthy dealer network up and running. I also wonder how much more money Hyundai is willing to lose on the sales of Genesis cars to pierce the market.

The North American market is a bear, since it is mostly replacement and Hyundai understandably wants to sell lux autos to make more profit per vehicle. There are start up costs involved that are now prodigious.

 

[Mark_888]

Genesis is starting with two models, same as Accura, Infiniti, and Lexus. I wonder if that is enough nowadays to get a healthy dealer network up and running. I also wonder how much more money Hyundai is willing to lose on the sales of Genesis cars to pierce the market.

The North American market is a bear, since it is mostly replacement and Hyundai understandably wants to sell lux autos to make more profit per vehicle. There are start up costs involved that are now prodigious.

Way more than 50% of Acura sales are SUV/CUV's (RDX, and MDX).

For Lexus, the total 2016 sales in USA are similar to Acura:

• Cars 136,054
• Trucks (really SUV or CUV since Lexus does not make a true truck) 195,174

https://lexusenthusiast.com/2017/01/04/lexus-december-2016-year-end-sales-report/ (look at 2016 Year to Date)

Genesis Motors has announced that they will have 2 CUV/SUV vehicles in their lineup over the next couple of years. Also a smaller sedan.

 

[Seejay]

Way more than 50% of Acura sales are SUV/CUV's (RDX, and MDX).

For Lexus, the total 2016 sales in USA are similar to Acura:

• Cars 136,054
• Trucks (really SUV or CUV since Lexus does not make a true truck) 195,174

https://lexusenthusiast.com/2017/01/04/lexus-december-2016-year-end-sales-report/ (look at 2016 Year to Date)

Genesis Motors has announced that they will have 2 CUV/SUV vehicles in their lineup over the next couple of years. Also a smaller sedan.

Exactly. I don't think there is any way a luxury brand can start in today's market with just two models. Those days are gone for good.

 

[goochylittlepig]

I'm a little annoyed about it, I guess. I bought the 2016 because of a few features the 2015 didn't have, and I didn't want to wait for the 2017 switchover, so eyes wide open. I did put the new Genesis G80 badges on the car because I support the Genesis brand and I like the way they look. (Completely understand if people think I'm dumb for doing this, I don't have a great defense other than that it was a feelings decision, not a logical decision.) I will say the dealer I got it from was terrible about service, and I had to fight for a Sonata loaner with the service manager when I had airbag sensor issues. I took it to the other local dealer for service last time, where they sell the G90s and Equus, and they were so much better with the customer service part. They also kept referring to my car as a G80 because of the badges, and I was too amused to correct them. I'm wondering if I asked for a loaner Genesis they'd give it to me because they're confused, or if they'd actually check the file and see it's a 2016. Considering neither dealership can figure out that I'm not my wife, who also owns a Hyundai, I doubt it. Kind of looking forward to my next service....

 

[Midnightsun]

Whatever they do they do need to start the SUV/CUV thing sooner than later as this is the route America is going. The larger sedan market in general is fading faster by the month in North America. Here is just 1 article. http://www.autonews.com/article/20160905/RETAIL01/309059951/the-family-car-is-in-free-fall