I'm out!

[Julius88]

Well, Genesis friends, it's been a fun year and a half, but I'm selling my G70. I really enjoyed my G70 and do not regret going with a relatively un-tested brand like Genesis. Unlike some of you, I actually had a great Genesis/Hyundai dealer that always delivered good service - maybe not on par with the German luxury brands, but still, I didn't really have anything to complain about. Prior to getting the G70, out of all the cars I owned, my sentimental favorite was my old 2006 Audi S5, but I think the G70 has a special place in my heart as well. There was a point where it seemed like every day I discovered something new and cool about the car - truly, Genesis really knocked it out of the park with the G70 - the handling, the power from that glorious twin turbo V6, all the amazing tech and options in a car that's $10K - $15K less than competing brands.

Nevertheless, the lure of electric is too hard to resist so I'm giving up the G70 to see what it feels like to not get gas anymore. I may come back to Genesis in the future and hope they can continue to produce great cars (and especially improve their service and dealership experience to rival other competing luxury brands) , but for now, it's 'au revoir'. This forum has been great, I've learned a lot, had a few chuckles, and just generally enjoyed reading great posts from great members. Thanks all!

 

[tarhoosier]

I want to hear you experiences with electric. I am thinking the same thoughts.

 

[Slip_Angle]

Good for you! Electric is the future! Right now, I'm of the thought that the G70 is my last ICE car.

What did you get?

 

[Alfer]

Electric on paper always sounds so glorious and "earth friendly" but then reality hits me when you realize cost of installing a proper charging station. Then worrying about where next charging station is if on a trip (and how long do you have to sit waiting on a charge). Then of course from the "save the earth!" files, the power that is needed to charge every few days comes from a fossil fuel plant. Then the worst being what do people think will happen to all those dead batteries filled with dangerous chemicals, yeah, they end up poisoning the environment most likely. Also, how much does it take to get the precious materials needed to create those batteries? Who sells it to us?

So as much as they tout "go Green!!" it really isn't as glorious as many will make it out to be.

I'll still to my traditional fossil fuel vehicle to the end and won't be chasing that electric dream that could end up a nightmare.

 

[Julius88]

Good for you! Electric is the future! Right now, I'm of the thought that the G70 is my last ICE car.

What did you get?

I'm taking delivery of a Porsche Taycan this Friday. Needless to say, I'm super excited about it! Porsche's have always been my "dream" car.

 

[Julius88]

Electric on paper always sounds so glorious and "earth friendly" but then reality hits me when you realize cost of installing a proper charging station. Then worrying about where next charging station is if on a trip (and how long do you have to sit waiting on a charge). Then of course from the "save the earth!" files, the power that is needed to charge every few days comes from a fossil fuel plant. Then the worst being what do people think will happen to all those dead batteries filled with dangerous chemicals, yeah, they end up poisoning the environment most likely. Also, how much does it take to get the precious materials needed to create those batteries? Who sells it to us?

So as much as they tout "go Green!!" it really isn't as glorious as many will make it out to be.

I'll still to my traditional fossil fuel vehicle to the end and won't be chasing that electric dream that could end up a nightmare.

It may be true that EVs aren't "super earth-friendly" when you factor in everything required to produce them. I'm even willing to admit that for the time being, it may be even somewhat worse for the environment because infrastructure still needs to be built to accommodate EVS. But the way I see it, it's a necessary step forward. Eventually we're going to run out of petroleum so we need new technologies. EVs are probably not the last step, but I think they're at least a next step in the right direction.

For the way I plan on using my EV, my use case makes sense. I plan on using it as a daily driver to and from work, and driving around town. For longer road trips, we'll use my wife's regular ICE SUV since I'm still not sure about recharging the car on long trips (although at some point, maybe I'll just be okay with making longer stops for recharging).

 

[Alfer]

Good points.

But where does everyone think all the power will come from when there MAY be more "filling stations" in the cities? The demand for more energy will require more fossil fuel to keep the power plants going. So yes it all sounds rosy having multiple charge stations every mile, but it will just cause more stress on power plants that use...fossil fuels. You can't run a giant grid of chargers on wind power or other supposed "green" power. Not going to work. Using an EV is the new "it" thing right now and in a way, virtue signalling for many, but it in no way is going to save planet Earth.

 

[EdP]

Good points.

But where does everyone think all the power will come from when there MAY be more "filling stations" in the cities? The demand for more energy will require more fossil fuel to keep the power plants going. So yes it all sounds rosy having multiple charge stations every mile, but it will just cause more stress on power plants that use...fossil fuels. You can't run a giant grid of chargers on wind power or other supposed "green" power. Not going to work. Using an EV is the new "it" thing right now and in a way, virtue signalling for many, but it in no way is going to save planet Earth.

I think it will make sense in the future but it has a way to go. Battery chemistry is changing and at some point, lithium will not be needed. There are recycling facilities now but they are not 100% perfect yet.

Charging times will be reduced too. One system in the works is supposed to be 10 minutes. Charging stations are popping up. 7-11 is putting 500 stations in 250 locations in the next year, most interstate rest stops are getting them. A couple of restaurants have them. Presently there are 41,000 stations but only 5000 are fast charging.

You mention that the electric is generated by fossil fuels. If you take all into consideration even with transmission losses, it is better than the ICE at 25% to 30% efficient.

If you go back 120 years the automobile was thought of as a passing fad, toys for the wealthy. Few gas stations, no paved roads. Why would you want one?

Check back in 5 years.

 

[Julius88]

I agree that in its present iteration, electric vehicles won't save planet Earth. But it's all part of the process - we adopt a change, we analyze its shortcoming and make improvements to it, and the cycle goes on until we hopefully solve the problem. If we stopped because the first version of something didn't address every single need or issue, I don't think we would have ever made it out of the stone age.

 

[Slip_Angle]

Good points.

But where does everyone think all the power will come from when there MAY be more "filling stations" in the cities? The demand for more energy will require more fossil fuel to keep the power plants going. So yes it all sounds rosy having multiple charge stations every mile, but it will just cause more stress on power plants that use...fossil fuels. You can't run a giant grid of chargers on wind power or other supposed "green" power. Not going to work. Using an EV is the new "it" thing right now and in a way, virtue signalling for many, but it in no way is going to save planet Earth.

Where I live, our power is all Hydro based so it makes good sense here

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[KusaKusa]

Electric on paper always sounds so glorious and "earth friendly" but then reality hits me when you realize cost of installing a proper charging station. Then worrying about where next charging station is if on a trip (and how long do you have to sit waiting on a charge). Then of course from the "save the earth!" files, the power that is needed to charge every few days comes from a fossil fuel plant. Then the worst being what do people think will happen to all those dead batteries filled with dangerous chemicals, yeah, they end up poisoning the environment most likely. Also, how much does it take to get the precious materials needed to create those batteries? Who sells it to us?

So as much as they tout "go Green!!" it really isn't as glorious as many will make it out to be.

I'll still to my traditional fossil fuel vehicle to the end and won't be chasing that electric dream that could end up a nightmare.

Congrats on the car, Julius! The Taycan seems glorious.

 

[2450NW]

"Where I live, our power is all Hydro based so it makes good sense here..." Unless you live in the West, where hydropower is becoming an endangered species as a result of our running out of water. Dams are at an all-time low and getting lower....

 

[Slip_Angle]

"Where I live, our power is all Hydro based so it makes good sense here..." Unless you live in the West, where hydropower is becoming an endangered species as a result of our running out of water. Dams are at an all-time low and getting lower....

Temporary.. (famous last words)

 

[tuckerdog1]

Some California EV Owners Allegedly Switch Back to Gas

California’s EV owners supposedly switch back to gas-powered cars they find charging is a hassle, research shows.

www.autoweek.com

 

[Chad86tsi]

You mention that the electric is generated by fossil fuels. If you take all into consideration even with transmission losses, it is better than the ICE at 25% to 30% efficient.

Natural gas and coal generation has a similar efficiency range to an ICE, so it's kind of a wash. Then there is transmission and distribution losses of 6-8% on top of that (substations and power lines). There is also further loss as you convert AC power at the wall in your garage into DC charge in the battery pack. For every watt you pull out of the wall to charge your car, 4 watts of energy is consumed (burned) at the generation source.

EV's are the future and it's at the top of my list, but I'm not fooling myself that it's because I can save the planet in the process. I'd like to see us get there, but there is still a lot of myths about the green energy stuff, and how our national grid really works. The grid will be slow to change, it's really, really complicated and there is no escaping need for on-demand generation (burning carbon) in our lifetimes. We will and have moved away from it, but it can't be replaced unless we all get our own battery plants in our homes to fill the peaks and brown-outs.


Disclosure: I'm a transmission and distribution engineer for a major electrical utility.

 

[EdP]

Natural gas and coal generation has a similar efficiency range to an ICE, so it's kind of a wash. Then there is transmission and distribution losses of 6-8% on top of that (substations and power lines). There is also further loss as you convert AC power at the wall in your garage into DC charge in the battery pack. For every watt you pull out of the wall to charge your car, 4 watts of energy is consumed (burned) at the generation source.

EV's are the future and it's at the top of my list, but I'm not fooling myself that it's because I can save the planet in the process. I'd like to see us get there, but there is still a lot of myths about the green energy stuff, and how our national grid really works. The grid will be slow to change, it's really, really complicated and there is no escaping need for on-demand generation (burning carbon) in our lifetimes. We will and have moved away from it, but it can't be replaced unless we all get our own battery plants in our homes to fill the peaks and brown-outs.


Disclosure: I'm a transmission and distribution engineer for a major electrical utility.

Solution is simple. Bridges usually have 14' clearance so you put a big windmill on the roof of the car to charge as you drive like a perpetual motion machine. Especially effective coasting down hills.

I see a couple of big apartment complexes going up near me but no charging stations. I guess you just run an extension cord out the window. I would think the grid will be needing a tune up in the next few years as people plug in.

 

[Chad86tsi]

Solution is simple. Bridges usually have 14' clearance so you put a big windmill on the roof of the car to charge as you drive like a perpetual motion machine. Especially effective coasting down hills.

I see a couple of big apartment complexes going up near me but no charging stations. I guess you just run an extension cord out the window. I would think the grid will be needing a tune up in the next few years as people plug in.

The apartment is a great example of the limits of our "system" as a whole to evolve. There are also many homes with no garage or proper private driveway space (no tripping over cords on the sidewalk), or even adequate power in their panel. ICE's will be with us for decades.

I have means and capacity so it's on my list, but I think a lot of people will be stuck with gas longer than they realize. What is concerning about that is now some auto makers are planning to go 100% electric for their smaller and mid sized cars. What will "regular people with no where to plug in be driving in 10 years?

 

[Julius88]

Some California EV Owners Allegedly Switch Back to Gas

California’s EV owners supposedly switch back to gas-powered cars they find charging is a hassle, research shows.

www.autoweek.com

I'm not sure how much stock I'd put in that study. The article itself says that the study used data from 2012 to 2018, with most of the data from the early end of that timeframe. It's pretty clear that in 2012 it was a lot more likely for someone to switch back to ICE. Since then however, pretty much everything about EVs, from the overall quality, the choices available, as well as the charging opportunities, have gotten a lot better. Even using relatively old data from back then, only 1 in 5 switched back to ICE. I imagine that rate is even lower nowadays.

In any case, I didn't mean to start an ICE vs EV war. I like ICE cars as much as anybody, but that doesn't mean I can't be curious about and like EVs too. I pretty much love cars, I don't really care too much how they go. If you can get a hamster-powered car to go 0-60 in 4.5 seconds like the G70 and look good doing it, I'd like that car too

 

[dammitdana]

If you live in a rolling brownout/blackout area - where we are trying to "conserve electricity" - why do we keep pushing the electricity use of more things? It's confusing. I feel like I'm in the last days of opportunity to get some actual ICE stuff so I went as big as I could on this one.

 

[EdP]

The apartment is a great example of the limits of our "system" as a whole to evolve. There are also many homes with no garage or proper private driveway space (no tripping over cords on the sidewalk), or even adequate power in their panel. ICE's will be with us for decades.

I have means and capacity so it's on my list, but I think a lot of people will be stuck with gas longer than they realize. What is concerning about that is now some auto makers are planning to go 100% electric for their smaller and mid sized cars. What will "regular people with no where to plug in be driving in 10 years?

I don't know how it will evolve, but if they do come up with an honest 10 minute charge it is easy. You go to the former gas station and plug in for 10 minutes, about twice what it takes to gas up now. I don't see that as a big problem but I don't want to sit for two hours for a fill up.

It is not insurmountable and will evolve, just as automobiles, airplanes, and appliances have over time.