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Impressions

Mark, the point I am trying to make with the examples I gave you has less to do with suspensions than with presenting stray comments as "facts".

I agree - especially when you "quote" things without citing them, and if someone actually goes and looks for them, that person finds out that the fact isn't true at all.
 
You guys make me laugh when I read the squabbling about the suspension tune (especially when the comments really aren't about the suspension).

The Genesis is obviously a very good car, and a terrific value. I intend to buy a '10, myself. The real issue with the ride quality is not "too hard" or "too soft", it is "too unrefined" for a car with luxury pretensions. As has been stated here, it isn't the absolute softness of the ride that defines an upscale car, it is the level of refinement thereof. This is the predominant comment mentioned in about 90% of the coverage of the car, and one of the few things they gig Hyundai about this model.

The comment was made above that the 2009 introduction was fawned over by the motoring press. This is true, and those same folks often mentioned the "unsettled" nature of the ride, but the product as a whole was so impressive an effort, and came from such an unexpected source, that they were blown away. The press often reacts to significant new models this way, which is why you want to let the dust settle, and allow a little time for everyone to regain some perspective. I think the current reviews that I have seen are the most accurate in relaying the good- and bad points of the car.

Cars (and the "dealer experience") like BMW, Lexus, Audi, and M-B create tend to be highly refined, and this is what some posters are really trying to say. Many people confuse ride comfort and suspension refinement. Sure, a lot of these products ride hard, but they were designed to ride in exactly that manner, and that ride is always composed...they feel unflappable when you stress them, and they never act in an unexpected or crude manner. They didn't achieve this overnight, and what most astute observers believe is that Hyundai is not there yet, but will learn with time playing in this segment.

The Genesis does not have a very refined ride, and I think this is fundamentally limited by its basic design. In one recent review, it was said that the suspension is less refined than those of mainline cars like Accord or Camry. As an Acura owner, I agree...the suspension behavior in all of the Genesis cars I've driven (about a dozen of them, over about 18 months) is noticeably less refined than the car I have now. I'm not talking about firmness, I'm talking about behavioral quality.

For those who think your G rides fine, I'm glad you're happy with it. There are also a lot of people out there who think, for example, that a lot of GM products from a few years back also ride just fine, and I'm glad they're happy with their cars, too. To a critical person with broad experience, those suspension setups are typically unrefined and crude in behavior. Another example: Many Mustang owners can't understand why Ford gets tagged about keeping a live axle under the back of that model. But anyone who has driven a more sophisticated independent rear design around a sweeper with some expansion joints in it can instantly tell you that there's no comparison in quality of behavior whatsoever.

So, let's stop the nitpicking. If you like the ride, fine. If you don't like the ride, fine, too, but hopefully, you knew just what you were getting because you took a few thorough test drives before you bought the car. I'm in this category...I'm fine with the firmness, but wish the overall ride quality was more refined. It's not terrible, nor so unrefined that I wouldn't buy one, but it is simply not of the same caliber as the better European and Japanese products. I do get annoyed with people who continually try to argue that it is. It is not. But that doesn't diminish the fact that we're all still getting more than we're paying for with the G.

For the record, I find the '10 model to ride slightly more firmly than the '09, but with much better damping control. It's not a totally different car, but it is noticeably improved.

So, I think I'm going to pick up a '10 with the V8, knowing it's weaknesses, but also loving what a great value it is.
 
The Genesis does not have a very refined ride, and I think this is fundamentally limited by its basic design.

While you make some valid points, I wouldn't say it's the design (the KDM version w/ the air suspension eats up the bumps), but rather that the tuning isn't yet optimal.

As for Germans and Japanese, it's not like they always get it right either (despite having had more time fine-tuning their suspensions) - as evidenced by the reviews for the TSX and X3.
 
You guys make me laugh when I read the squabbling about the suspension tune (especially when the comments really aren't about the suspension).
You might want to dial back the arrogance and condescension just a bit if you want to be taken seriously.

For those who think your G rides fine, I'm glad you're happy with it. There are also a lot of people out there who think, for example, that a lot of GM products from a few years back also ride just fine, and I'm glad they're happy with their cars, too. To a critical person with broad experience, those suspension setups are typically unrefined and crude in behavior. Another example: Many Mustang owners can't understand why Ford gets tagged about keeping a live axle under the back of that model. But anyone who has driven a more sophisticated independent rear design around a sweeper with some expansion joints in it can instantly tell you that there's no comparison in quality of behavior whatsoever.
IMHO lumping the Infiniti G in with domestic front-drives is more than a little absurd. It's the only car that gives the 3-series a serious run the money in comparison tests, and handling is widely regarded as one of its strengths. If you prefer the ride in Camry's (or even Acuras) over that, I can only guess your use of the word "refined" should be equated with "bland".
 
Maybe Hyundai should put the air suspension in the V8? In online car sites, I see Genesis directly compared against Mercedes E class by Hyundai. E350 has standard suspension and E550 has air suspension. With this much debate about Genesis suspension, maybe put in the option for V8 as those buyers are willing to spend more, with an air suspension option. Choose Lexus or choose BMW as some have said and not compromise somewhere in between.
 
What was the original post 5 pages ago? Oh, about a new owners impressions of the car. I believe he did say it was a great car and a great value but that it did not ride like a luxury car.

I happen to agree. If you look at the components that are used they are top notch and are multi-link etc. but when they handed it over to the engineering folks and it came time to tune the ride compliance they did a poor job. Whatever sporting pretensions were assumed the suspension should soak up initial impact and provide reasonable compression and rebound damping which is what the best suspensions do. The Genesis just kind of "crashes" over road imperfections but because the structure is solid it does not feel as if it will come apart. But it is what it is and it only occasionally bothers me or distracts me from what is ultimately a fine effort overall and a beautiful car.
 
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You might want to dial back the arrogance and condescension just a bit if you want to be taken seriously.

Neither arrogance nor condescension intended...just amusement...and what does that have to do with me being taken seriously?

IMHO lumping the Infiniti G in with domestic front-drives is more than a little absurd. It's the only car that gives the 3-series a serious run the money in comparison tests, and handling is widely regarded as one of its strengths. If you prefer the ride in Camry's (or even Acuras) over that, I can only guess your use of the word "refined" should be equated with "bland".

jkohn, I didn't lump the Infiniti G (which is an excellent, refined vehicle) in with anything...by "G", I was referring to the Genesis; laziness on my part. Further, I didn't say I preferred the ride in the mainstream front-drivers. I simply paraphrased a recent review in a major magazine that I'd come across. The author's point, and I concur, is that those cars have suspensions which, although you may find them "bland", are highly refined in their behavior; they never surprise, and they are exactly what their designers intended them to be. His point was that you don't have to buy a $50K ride to get refined suspension design, and you sure ought to get it when you spend $40 large for something that pretends to be upscale.

I get the impression you're doing just what I was writing about, which is confusing the firmness or softness of ride with the level of refinement of the ride. I'll take a "bland" suspension over an "exciting" one any day of the week, if your definition of "exciting" is that it does unexpected or surprising things. Refinement is about consistency and predictable behavior. I owned a 911 Carrera S until recently, and it's ride was borderline harsh (well, no, in all honesty, it was just plain harsh), but it was also extraordinarily refined. You could plan a line with that thing and hit it within a gnat's eyelash with complete reliability. And repeatability. The OLD 911s, now, those were exciting...snap oversteer at the limit, nasty in crosswinds...I'll choose the nice, bland newer ones every time.
 
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Another example: Many Mustang owners can't understand why Ford gets tagged about keeping a live axle under the back of that model. But anyone who has driven a more sophisticated independent rear design around a sweeper with some expansion joints in it can instantly tell you that there's no comparison in quality of behavior whatsoever.

As already stated, the Genesis' underpinnings are as sophisticated as what's out there - whether Hyundai tuned it optimally, is another question.

As for the 'Stang, despite its live rear axle, it, nonetheless, has gotten more praise for its ride than the Camaro w/ its more sophisticated IRS.
 
JamesD,

Wait, you are buying th car? Why would you do that after you just slammed it?
 
jkohn, I didn't lump the Infiniti G (which is an excellent, refined vehicle) in with anything...by "G", I was referring to the Genesis; laziness on my part.
My misunderstanding then. I had been comparing the Genesis suspension to my previous Infiniti G; so when you said that, I thought you were talking about the Infiniti. As I said I don't think the Genesis suspension is at the same level as Infiniti or BMW, though it's by no means bad. I'm not sure it's a matter of refinement, when I hear that word Lexus is what comes to mind, along with words like boring and uninspired. For me it's more a matter of driving dynamics.
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You guys make me laugh when I read the squabbling about the suspension tune (especially when the comments really aren't about the suspension).

The Genesis is obviously a very good car, and a terrific value. I intend to buy a '10, myself. The real issue with the ride quality is not "too hard" or "too soft", it is "too unrefined" for a car with luxury pretensions. As has been stated here, it isn't the absolute softness of the ride that defines an upscale car, it is the level of refinement thereof. This is the predominant comment mentioned in about 90% of the coverage of the car, and one of the few things they gig Hyundai about this model.

The comment was made above that the 2009 introduction was fawned over by the motoring press. This is true, and those same folks often mentioned the "unsettled" nature of the ride, but the product as a whole was so impressive an effort, and came from such an unexpected source, that they were blown away. The press often reacts to significant new models this way, which is why you want to let the dust settle, and allow a little time for everyone to regain some perspective. I think the current reviews that I have seen are the most accurate in relaying the good- and bad points of the car.

Cars (and the "dealer experience") like BMW, Lexus, Audi, and M-B create tend to be highly refined, and this is what some posters are really trying to say. Many people confuse ride comfort and suspension refinement. Sure, a lot of these products ride hard, but they were designed to ride in exactly that manner, and that ride is always composed...they feel unflappable when you stress them, and they never act in an unexpected or crude manner. They didn't achieve this overnight, and what most astute observers believe is that Hyundai is not there yet, but will learn with time playing in this segment.

The Genesis does not have a very refined ride, and I think this is fundamentally limited by its basic design. In one recent review, it was said that the suspension is less refined than those of mainline cars like Accord or Camry. As an Acura owner, I agree...the suspension behavior in all of the Genesis cars I've driven (about a dozen of them, over about 18 months) is noticeably less refined than the car I have now. I'm not talking about firmness, I'm talking about behavioral quality.

For those who think your G rides fine, I'm glad you're happy with it. There are also a lot of people out there who think, for example, that a lot of GM products from a few years back also ride just fine, and I'm glad they're happy with their cars, too. To a critical person with broad experience, those suspension setups are typically unrefined and crude in behavior. Another example: Many Mustang owners can't understand why Ford gets tagged about keeping a live axle under the back of that model. But anyone who has driven a more sophisticated independent rear design around a sweeper with some expansion joints in it can instantly tell you that there's no comparison in quality of behavior whatsoever.

So, let's stop the nitpicking. If you like the ride, fine. If you don't like the ride, fine, too, but hopefully, you knew just what you were getting because you took a few thorough test drives before you bought the car. I'm in this category...I'm fine with the firmness, but wish the overall ride quality was more refined. It's not terrible, nor so unrefined that I wouldn't buy one, but it is simply not of the same caliber as the better European and Japanese products. I do get annoyed with people who continually try to argue that it is. It is not. But that doesn't diminish the fact that we're all still getting more than we're paying for with the G.

For the record, I find the '10 model to ride slightly more firmly than the '09, but with much better damping control. It's not a totally different car, but it is noticeably improved.

So, I think I'm going to pick up a '10 with the V8, knowing it's weaknesses, but also loving what a great value it is.


While you make some valid points, I wouldn't say it's the design (the KDM version w/ the air suspension eats up the bumps), but rather that the tuning isn't yet optimal.

JamesD, couldn't agree with you more. Minus the part which YEH mentioned about the design flaw of the suspension itself.
Not sure if you looked the cutaway of the 5-point link suspension design, but it's pretty impressive.
I also think it's more of a tuning problem rather than the design.
Hope Hyundai fine tunes it to the point where it can be really comparable to those of the German cars.

Either way, great post.

Dan
 
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