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List of Stand-Alone Genesis Dealerships

^ At first blush I took the story with a grain of salt since that volume seemed so low especially since Genesis sales are growing. Looking at the sales figures though that is fairly close. As of this morning I come up with 295 Genesis dealers and the 2021 sales were 49,621 that would be an average of 168 per dealer or 14 a month.

That said, I would think Genesis would be smart enough to provide as many vehicles as a dealer needs in order to grow the brand.
I was skeptical as well but your numbers bear it out. even at 14 cars per month it's a very difficult proposition. Who can sell one car every two days and expect it to support a $4 million investment?
 
I was skeptical as well but your numbers bear it out. even at 14 cars per month it's a very difficult proposition. Who can sell one car every two days and expect it to support a $4 million investment?
I am going to bet $4 million is on the VERY low side to build a luxury car dealership..maybe not even possible
When I lived in Columbus Ohio, Germain motors cars built a Cadillac and a Mercedes dealership joined by a 2nd level walkway with two separate entrances ,showrooms and waiting rooms with the Mercedes side having nicer everything
If I recall correctly, one of the salesmen told me it was a 12 million dollar investment and that was 20 years ago

Warren
 
My dealership is going to build a stand alone Genesis facility, but does not plan on doing it for a couple of years. First off they need to be able to get more inventory to be able to justify the build and manning cost. They are also hoping building cost may go down some. They currently already own the land and at current cost he said it will cost them $12 million just to build a facility.
 
I was skeptical as well but your numbers bear it out. even at 14 cars per month it's a very difficult proposition. Who can sell one car every two days and expect it to support a $4 million investment?

These days, it's more like $4 to 16+ million.

The latter being in high cost areas like the NY metro area, the Bay area, LA, etc.

Genesis is really crimped by production capacity - aside from having to also produce cars for the Korean market (its largest market), Genesis has to now allocate cars for Australia, Europe, the Middle East.

It's been 15 months since Genesis (prematurely) celebrated its launch in China with a drone light show over Shanghai; sales in China still haven't started and who knows when they will.

The volume issue really won't be alleviated until HMG finishes building its new EV plant here (which will build the GV90 and other Genesis electrics), but that isn't slated to be completed until 2025.

There should be a slight uptick in volume, however, with the addition of the Electrified GV70 - which will be built at Hyundai's Bama plant (Hyundai stopped building the Sonata and Elantra there to make room for the Electrified GV70 and other new models).
 
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Those are actually primarily Hyundai dealers with an Genesis " alcove" added to the dealer

A free standing luxury dealership in a what is probably some of the higher real estate areas is a whole other financial proposition

One has to take i

Yes...one has to take into account the massive spend each month to run a luxury car dealership.

Don't know why you argued when you agree that building and running a lux auto dealership is an expensive proposition. Lol


Also keep in mind that sales is a small part of the dealership revenue stream. Service/warranty work is what makes or breaks a dealership. That is where Genesis needs to pick up the game and make sure that environment/service provided is on par with other luxury brand experiences.


But that also entails having had the type of sales volume to have sufficient levels of service/warranty revenue.

Even after some 3 yrs, seeing a Genesis on the road is still a fairly rare proposition.

See a lot more Tellurides and that's just one model.


Also need to differentiate dealership profitability from that of the manufacturer.

Lexus dealerships, as a whole, are among the most profitable due to their sales volume.

Otoh, Lexus hasn't exactly been hugely profitable for ToyoCo as their investments in their RWD models haven't panned out.

Sales in China (largely of the RX and ES) has been the driver of Lexus profitability lately.
 
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So would it be wise for Genesis, if the free standing dealerships ever come, to try to enter those competitive markets or start in the areas that are less populated and less luxury minded?..Think Jacksonville Florida versus Miami...Springfield IL versus Chicago...Sacramento CA versus San Francisco


You follow this and other threads close enough where you should already know that free standing Genesis dealerships have already started.

While the brand new construction of Genesis of Lafayette, LA recently opened, others like Genesis of Westlake Village and Genesis of Santa Monica have been open for a while in existing structures (Santa Monica's current digs being temporary as they are building a new dealership down the street).

Genesis also has a showroom at the Hudson Yards in Manhattan.

The common denominator among these early Genesis standalone stores is that they are backed by deep pocketed owners (O'Gare which owns the Genesis dealership in Westlake is one of the rare instances of being a franchisee w/o also owning a Hyundai dealership; they own and operate numerous uber-high end dealerships in both Westlake and Beverly Hills such as Rolls Royce, Bugatti, Lamborghini, etc).

While Genesis has a deadline for separate dealerships/facilities (which was extended due to the pandemic), each franchisee makes the decision on their own within the timetable laid out by corporate.
 
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Ok..now you went from a rumor that Toyota subsidizing the Lexus dealers to now that is a fact?

Again., if they did , As a FOR profit company it must have been clearly something Toyota thought they needed to do to launch in the United States.
I was assume this further since they sold Lexus vehicles in other markets as Toyotas

Again..Lexus had 65 dealers at launch and over 100 in the first 8 months

Land and construction costs have continued to rise for years....but yet other dealerships have built spectacular establishments
Over 170,000 square feet, fitness center, showers, putting green and driving range etc

Can you imagine the cost on this when it was built in 2016 and the overhead costs to keep it open?

Since you like to "what if"...can you imagine the profitability of this dealership if all they had was an Lexus " alcove" built onto the Toyota dealership?

Warren


Not just a rumor, but something that industry insiders at the time pointed out which was never refuted by Toyota (they never confirmed it either).

Again, like had said, it was a very landscape for the auto industry (much less land and construction costs).

There was a lot of anti-Japanese sentiment at that time (Chinese-American Vincent Chin was murdered by 2 auto workers thinking he was Japanese; neither ended up in prison) where the Japanese automakers "voluntarily" limited imports (and started to manufacture their vehicles here).

The Japanese Big 3 needed to keep their Japanese plants going (and increase margins) and they did that by launching lux/premium brands.

Like had stated, at the time - it was basically the Japanese and US markets that the Japanese paid attention to.

These days, Hyundai has to pay attention to India, Australia, the Middle East, Mexico, South America, Africa, China (albeit that has been a struggle ever since the Beijing-led embargo) and now Indonesia/SE Asia, nevermind also having to develop an entire line of BEVs and build new factories to manufacture said BEVs.

Also, Toyota dealerships were pretty profitable at the time and the top volume Toyota dealerships (presumably the ones that got the 1st Lexus dealerships) even more so.

Hyundai dealerships, otoh, were not that profitable until recently, as they sold a sedan heavy lineup in an SUV/pickup market.

Only with the addition of the Palisade, new Tucson, Santa Cruz, etc. have Hyundai dealerships finally started to make good $$.

Even so, Toyota had to rush a lightly reworked JDM Camry to the US market as the 1st Lexus ES in order to give the Lexus dealerships the volume they needed in order to sustain themselves.

As already pointed out, Genesis' issue when it comes to sales volume is a tougher one to address as it requires adding production capacity - in which real relief won't come til the latter part of 2025.

So, you really expect Genesis franchisees as a whole to build million dollar spanking new dealerships and to bleed $$ until 2025 or more likely 2026? Lol

Now, may not be so much of an issue for the deep pocketed ownership groups (as previously pointed out), but many Hyundai dealerships owning a Genesis franchise are not like that and can't afford to bleed $$ for 4-5 years.

Nonetheless, despite the less than ideal situation re a separate dealer network, Genesis, as a brand already, has a significantly higher ATP than Lexus and is generally seen by the auto pubs as the only Asian lux brand that can go head to head with the Germans (this is where the actual product supersedes things like having fancy digs).

Going back to land/construction costs - sure it has generally risen over the years, but that doesn't change the fact that it is prohibitively more expensive now than during the 1980s-1990s.

During the 1980s-1990s, a person with a middle class income could still afford a home in the Bay Area.

Now, it's virtually impossible.

Thought RE prices were already thru the roof when a nice, starter home in the Bay area was going for $2.5 million a decade ago.

It's basically doubled in price since then.

Also, due to the effects of the pandemic, construction costs went thru the roof.

The price of lumber went through the roof.

But due to higher interest rates, etc. - costs have been coming down.

Besides, the example you gave was of an already existing Lexus franchise for an already decades long brand.

They already knew the type of sales volume they were dealing with; plus land isn't that expensive in Arlington which is why they keep building new ballparks.

If a Genesis franchise built a likewise size dealership (btw, with sales increasingly moving to online, spending that much on an auto dealership looks like a poor investment for the long haul), they would go under in a couple of months since they wouldn't have product allocation/volume to support such a dealership (that is, if they were able to get the financing in the 1st place as no bank would lend them the $$ knowing the supply/allocation situation).
 
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Don't know why you argued when you agree that building and running a lux auto dealership is an expensive proposition. Lol





But that also entails having had the type of sales volume to have sufficient levels of service/warranty revenue.

Even after some 3 yrs, seeing a Genesis on the road is still a fairly rare proposition.

See a lot more Tellurides and that's just one model.


Also need to differentiate dealership profitability from that of the manufacturer.

Lexus dealerships, as a whole, are among the most profitable due to their sales volume.

Otoh, Lexus hasn't exactly been hugely profitable for ToyoCo as their investments in their RWD models haven't panned out.

Sales in China (largely of the RX and ES) has been the driver of Lexus profitability lately.
Yes...so you agree that building a luxury vehicle dealership in the United States is expensive?
I agree...but then you try to compare a Porsche dealership to Genesis?

Why?...as its apples and oranges

Also..I am going to say once again as I have for years that you need a luxury car dealership and experience to sell luxury vehicles in the United States

Then as typical you have many sentences of speculation on your part

Warren
 
Not just a rumor, but something that industry insiders at the time pointed out which was never refuted by Toyota (they never confirmed it either).

Again, like had said, it was a very landscape for the auto industry (much less land and construction costs).

There was a lot of anti-Japanese sentiment at that time (Chinese-American Vincent Chin was murdered by 2 auto workers thinking he was Japanese; neither ended up in prison) where the Japanese automakers "voluntarily" limited imports (and started to manufacture their vehicles here).

The Japanese Big 3 needed to keep their Japanese plants going (and increase margins) and they did that by launching lux/premium brands.

Like had stated, at the time - it was basically the Japanese and US markets that the Japanese paid attention to.

These days, Hyundai has to pay attention to India, Australia, the Middle East, Mexico, South America, Africa, China (albeit that has been a struggle ever since the Beijing-led embargo) and now Indonesia/SE Asia, nevermind also having to develop an entire line of BEVs and build new factories to manufacture said BEVs.

Also, Toyota dealerships were pretty profitable at the time and the top volume Toyota dealerships (presumably the ones that got the 1st Lexus dealerships) even more so.

Hyundai dealerships, otoh, were not that profitable until recently, as they sold a sedan heavy lineup in an SUV/pickup market.

Only with the addition of the Palisade, new Tucson, Santa Cruz, etc. have Hyundai dealerships finally started to make good $$.

Even so, Toyota had to rush a lightly reworked JDM Camry to the US market as the 1st Lexus ES in order to give the Lexus dealerships the volume they needed in order to sustain themselves.

As already pointed out, Genesis' issue when it comes to sales volume is a tougher one to address as it requires adding production capacity - in which real relief won't come til the latter part of 2025.

So, you really expect Genesis franchisees as a whole to build million dollar spanking new dealerships and to bleed $$ until 2025 or more likely 2026? Lol

Now, may not be so much of an issue for the deep pocketed ownership groups (as previously pointed out), but many Hyundai dealerships owning a Genesis franchise are not like that and can't afford to bleed $$ for 4-5 years.

Nonetheless, despite the less than ideal situation re a separate dealer network, Genesis, as a brand already, has a significantly higher ATP than Lexus and is generally seen by the auto pubs as the only Asian lux brand that can go head to head with the Germans (this is where the actual product supersedes things like having fancy digs).

Going back to land/construction costs - sure it has generally risen over the years, but that doesn't change the fact that it is prohibitively more expensive now than during the 1980s-1990s.

During the 1980s-1990s, a person with a middle class income could still afford a home in the Bay Area.

Now, it's virtually impossible.

Thought RE prices were already thru the roof when a nice, starter home in the Bay area was going for $2.5 million a decade ago.

It's basically doubled in price since then.

Also, due to the effects of the pandemic, construction costs went thru the roof.

The price of lumber went through the roof.

But due to higher interest rates, etc. - costs have been coming down.

Besides, the example you gave was of an already existing Lexus franchise for an already decades long brand.

They already knew the type of sales volume they were dealing with; plus land isn't that expensive in Arlington which is why they keep building new ballparks.

If a Genesis franchise built a likewise size dealership (btw, with sales increasingly moving to online, spending that much on an auto dealership looks like a poor investment for the long haul), they would go under in a couple of months since they wouldn't have product allocation/volume to support such a dealership (that is, if they were able to get the financing in the 1st place as no bank would lend them the $$ knowing the supply/allocation situation).
Wow... a lot of speculation there. I am not even going to try to unpack all that

So....." if" Toyota financed Lexus dealers to get them started then it probably meant that it was a business decision/ investment needed to made...correct?

Since Toyota is a FOR PROFIT company, I am going to assume when they make business decisions it is to make the company larger and more profitable

On a side note,can you imagine the profitability if all they had done was sell Lexus vehicles from an " alcove" connected to the Toyota dealership?

Clearly, We can assume Toyota didnt even think that was a possibility in the United States to sell a luxury brand

Lets look at some facts here
Lexus rolled out in 1989 with 65 free standing dealerships
There were 100 in 8 months
There were 121 in 12 months

In 1991 Lexus was the top selling luxury import brand in the United States with sales of just over 71,000 vehicles

In prior posts ..I have highlighted at least two newer Lexus dealerships built in the last 4-5 years in the Chicago Illinois market( Lexus of Arlington) and Dallas Texas ( Lexus of Plano)market that are over 150,000 square feet

There are 244 Lexus dealers today in the United States.
There are 39 in California alone...with extremely high land, construction and tax rates

In 2018...when you were asked about where are the free standing dealers and you posted " Rome wasn't built in a day"
Well 4 years later and not much has really changed

Warren
 
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Warren, you’re more than welcome in a forum like this to speculate and express opinions about both the domestic as well as the international automobile industry, but please don’t confuse speculation by a non industry person with actual facts regarding that industry. Most of what you’ve been saying is certainly worth raising as issues, likes, dislikes, etc. But very little of it is based on actual facts regarding the industry. I’ve spent a lifetime involved in the automotive industry plus taught advanced international business at university, but even I cannot always explain what many industry decision makers do. Senior management at HKG have made many good decisions and many poor decisions. But that isn’t very different from numerous management people at many other car companies or even dealers. After all, as I often told my students, they are just people, and as per the Peter Principle, many are put into positions that they aren’t truly qualified for. And often decisions must be made with too little data. Most industry people could name on two hands the truly great decision makers in the history of this industry. Historically there have an awful lot of poor decisions!

But I think the real key is this: how the industry works, how decisions are made, what has been and is currently being done is not anything that would typically be obvious or even mostly understood by non industry people. Very little of the decisions by manufacturers or dealers “makes sense” or would be “obvious“ to a non industry person. There are simply far too many industry practices, legal issues, government regulatory issues (domestic and internationa), financial issues, market research issues, etc., etc. Plus the real history of what has happened in the past is only known and understood by those heavily involved in the industry or those who’ve deeply studied it.

A person like YEH isn’t providing his “opinion”, he’s providing facts based on his obvious experience and actual knowledge of this industry. Again, you’re certainly entitled to express your thoughts, ideas and opinions, but that’s not the same as someone providing inside information regarding the automobile industry.
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Yes...so you agree that building a luxury vehicle dealership in the United States is expensive?
I agree...but then you try to compare a Porsche dealership to Genesis?

Why?...as its apples and oranges

Also..I am going to say once again as I have for years that you need a luxury car dealership and experience to sell luxury vehicles in the United States

Then as typical you have many sentences of speculation on your part


For someone who continually harps on how expensive it is to build out and operate/sustain an auto dealership (even more so for a lux dealership), you seem awfully insistent on wanting to see Genesis dealerships end up in financial ruin.

My "comparison" with Porsche was only a commentary on what the head of the Genesis dealer council stated regarding current profitability - that w/o all the overhead costs, Genesis dealerships are more profitable than Porsche and Mercedes (if you have an issue with that assertion, take it up with him).

Of course, if all Genesis dealerships had the overhead costs of a separate Genesis store, most would be bleeding $$ as (as previously stated) there isn't enough production capacity to adequately supply every Genesis dealership to even break-even status.

The original plan was to have a Genesis dealer network of about 110 stores (including a # that weren't Hyundai franchisees).

A rather modest 80 sales/month per dealership (that wouldn't be enough to cover costs in the more expensive areas) would require an annual production allocation of 105,600 vehicles.

But that plan went put the window after other Hyundai dealerships which were shut out from acquiring a Genesis franchise sued, so ended up having to offer one to every Hyundai dealership owner that wanted one.

Hyundai ended up with over triple the amount of Genesis franchisees than what they had originally planned for despite offering severance packages as much as several million to not take them up on the offer.

Over the past year or so, a couple of dozen Genesis franchisees have given up their franchise since they didn't find it financially feasible to continue as an ongoing operation with the immense capital layout required of them by corporate for new facilities.

That still leaves 295 or so Genesis franchisees currently.

To supply 295 dealerships with 80 vehicles/month requires Genesis to ship over 283,200 vehicles annually.

They are in no condition currently to even coming close to those production figures.

Right now, Genesis is supplying around 60k/yr and they may be able to get it up to 70-75k within a year/18 months time.

But they won't be able to provide much more than that until they finish building the new factories planned for Georgia and Korea.

So you still think it makes sense for every Genesis franchisee to borrow millions to build out a new dealership and bleed $$ for years until HMG has enough production capacity to adequately supply them? Lol

Sure, there are a # of Genesis dealerships which have built or are in the process of building a new facilities, but these are deep pocketed, big dealership groups which can afford the pain.

You really think you know better than the owners/GMs of Genesis dealerships as to what they are financially able to handle? Lol

They all have to meet a certain deadline for new facilities set by Genesis corporate - but I'm sure Genesis corporate set the deadline at a time which would best ensure the success.

I'm not just saying this as a cheerleader, but it's just the economic realities; I've been harshly critically of a good # of things that Genesis corporate had done in the past.



img_7297-jpg.42697



And really, as also previously pointed out to you, there really isn't that much difference btwn running a Genesis or a Porsche dealership, much less a Lamborghini.

It basically comes down to different amounts of volume needed to hit a certain level of profit.

Of course, Lamborghini makes up for low volume with high margins per sale, but the difference isn't that great btwn Genesis and Porsche as Porsche dealerships make the bulk of their profits from Macan and Cayenne sales, just as Genesis dealerships make the bulk of their profits from GV70 and GV80 sales.
 
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Wow... a lot of speculation there. I am not even going to try to unpack all that

So....." if" Toyota financed Lexus dealers to get them started then it probably meant that it was a business decision/ investment needed to made...correct?

Since Toyota is a FOR PROFIT company, I am going to assume when they make business decisions it is to make the company larger and more profitable

On a side note,can you imagine the profitability if all they had done was sell Lexus vehicles from an " alcove" connected to the Toyota dealership?

Clearly, We can assume Toyota didnt even think that was a possibility in the United States to sell a luxury brand

Lets look at some facts here
Lexus rolled out in 1989 with 65 free standing dealerships
There were 100 in 8 months
There were 121 in 12 months

In 1991 Lexus was the top selling luxury import brand in the United States with sales of just over 71,000 vehicles

In prior posts ..I have highlighted at least two newer Lexus dealerships built in the last 4-5 years in the Chicago Illinois market( Lexus of Arlington) and Dallas Texas ( Lexus of Plano)market that are over 150,000 square feet

There are 244 Lexus dealers today in the United States.
There are 39 in California alone...with extremely high land, construction and tax rates

In 2018...when you were asked about where are the free standing dealers and you posted " Rome wasn't built in a day"
Well 4 years later and not much has really changed


Again, at the time the only real place for Japanese automakers to make an investment was the US market.

These days, HMG and the other automakers have to invest tens of billions into BEVs (including new production facilities), while still having to invest in other growth areas (such as Hyundai having expanded their production facility in India and building a new one in Indonesia).

And we're not talking about having to support 65 or even 121 dealerships, but around 300.

Lexus did nearly 100k in sales in 1993 (99,280).

That means for the 121 or so dealerships, they, on avg., did 820 in sales for the year.

For the current # of Genesis dealerships to attain the same 820 in sales, Genesis would have to do 242k in sales for the year.

That's more than the entire current production capacity for Genesis and Genesis won't come close to being able to supply that kind of number for years.

Sorry, but situation for the 2 at their start are very different.

Again, don't know why you keep bringing up Lexus dealerships built in the past 4-5 years, as had already explained that, likewise, it's a different scenario.

Not only are they dealerships for a decades established marque, they both have an established clientele base with Arlington having been in business for 32 years and Plano for 30 years.

Business has been good for them (not surprising for most Lexus dealerships) where they can afford fancy new digs (btw, land in Palatine, IL and Plano, TX aren't exactly expensive and they already had the land from their previous location, if they built at a new location).

According to 2016 study, the avg. Lexus did $3.2 million in profit.

For high volume dealerships like Arlington and Plano, figure theirs to be a good bit higher.

The typical Hyundai dealership in 2016 made $700k in comparison.

Now, Hyundai dealerships today are doing better with more CUVs in their lineup like the Palisade (of which they are not getting enough of; HMG has production capacity issues across its brands), but they, as a whole, just got onto solid footing within the past year or so.

You really think most of these Hyundai dealerships owners (if not a part of a large auto group) are in a good position financially to spend millions on a separate Genesis dealership where it would be years before Genesis has the production capacity to adequately sustain said dealership?

It would be better for these Hyundai dealerships to spend the $$ renovating or building new digs for themselves and some have done exactly that (this being more akin to the Arlington and Plano examples that you gave).

Some Hyundai dealerships have built fancy new digs for themselves; maybe not quite luxury, but premium (about as nice as an older Lexus dealership).

Eastern Shore Hyundai spent $8.5 million (that's for Alabama) for its new digs some years ago, and it's already outdated as Hyundai changed the corporate design for dealerships. Lol
 
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Are you saying they won’t service your car at all or that they won’t service it under warranty. Do you know if they even still have Genesis certified techs?
So I was there today for the ABS recall.
the receptionist said that the techs will still be trained on both cars, but they won’t have the parts or the authorization to do Genesis warranty work. This seems odd to me, as I don’t know why they’d spend time and money training techs on vehicles that are such a small percentage of their workload.

But for warranty work, they said I’ll have to go to a dealership in Bel Air, which is a small city on I-95 that‘s at least 40 min north of where I live in Baltimore city. The traffic on 95 is usually awful, and I rarely go up that way for any reason.

By contrast, the Hyundai dealership is less than 15 min away and would send a valet to drop off a Genesis loaner and pick up my car, so I didn’t even have to physically go there.

There are at least 6 Hyundai dealers closer than Bel Air. I have to try to find out if there are any Genesis dealerships further south closer to DC. My parents and my brother live in Virginia in the DC suburbs, so at least I have a reason to go down there. There’s no reason for me to go to Bel Air.
 
Again, at the time the only real place for Japanese automakers to make an investment was the US market.

These days, HMG and the other automakers have to invest tens of billions into BEVs (including new production facilities), while still having to invest in other growth areas (such as Hyundai having expanded their production facility in India and building a new one in Indonesia).

And we're not talking about having to support 65 or even 121 dealerships, but around 300.

Lexus did nearly 100k in sales in 1993 (99,280).

That means for the 121 or so dealerships, they, on avg., did 820 in sales for the year.

For the current # of Genesis dealerships to attain the same 820 in sales, Genesis would have to do 242k in sales for the year.

That's more than the entire current production capacity for Genesis and Genesis won't come close to being able to supply that kind of number for years.

Sorry, but situation for the 2 at their start are very different.

Again, don't know why you keep bringing up Lexus dealerships built in the past 4-5 years, as had already explained that, likewise, it's a different scenario.

Not only are they dealerships for a decades established marque, they both have an established clientele base with Arlington having been in business for 32 years and Plano for 30 years.

Business has been good for them (not surprising for most Lexus dealerships) where they can afford fancy new digs (btw, land in Palatine, IL and Plano, TX aren't exactly expensive and they already had the land from their previous location, if they built at a new location).

According to 2016 study, the avg. Lexus did $3.2 million in profit.

For high volume dealerships like Arlington and Plano, figure theirs to be a good bit higher.

The typical Hyundai dealership in 2016 made $700k in comparison.

Now, Hyundai dealerships today are doing better with more CUVs in their lineup like the Palisade (of which they are not getting enough of; HMG has production capacity issues across its brands), but they, as a whole, just got onto solid footing within the past year or so.

You really think most of these Hyundai dealerships owners (if not a part of a large auto group) are in a good position financially to spend millions on a separate Genesis dealership where it would be years before Genesis has the production capacity to adequately sustain said dealership?

It would be better for these Hyundai dealerships to spend the $$ renovating or building new digs for themselves and some have done exactly that (this being more akin to the Arlington and Plano examples that you gave).

Some Hyundai dealerships have built fancy new digs for themselves; maybe not quite luxury, but premium (about as nice as an older Lexus dealership).

Eastern Shore Hyundai spent $8.5 million (that's for Alabama) for its new digs some years ago, and it's already outdated as Hyundai changed the corporate design for dealerships. Lol
Wow..more speculation...but lets run with that

So based on your speculation..how could Toyota/Lexus have opened free standing dealerships in the last few years?

They are facing the same costs...right?

Not only that..there are several newer free standing Lexus dealers that are over 150,000 square feet
You do realize that right?

The two examples I used ..Arlington and Plano...both are on some very expensive real estate

You used Porsche as an example compared to Genesis correct?
Based on your capacity and volume statement how are there free standing Porsche dealerships?

As for a " luxury" Hyundai dealer
Give me some examples where those are because I have yet to see one

You like to compare apples and oranges but you dont seem to like to use what are real comparables

Warren
 
For someone who continually harps on how expensive it is to build out and operate/sustain an auto dealership (even more so for a lux dealership), you seem awfully insistent on wanting to see Genesis dealerships end up in financial ruin.

My "comparison" with Porsche was only a commentary on what the head of the Genesis dealer council stated regarding current profitability - that w/o all the overhead costs, Genesis dealerships are more profitable than Porsche and Mercedes (if you have an issue with that assertion, take it up with him).

Of course, if all Genesis dealerships had the overhead costs of a separate Genesis store, most would be bleeding $$ as (as previously stated) there isn't enough production capacity to adequately supply every Genesis dealership to even break-even status.

The original plan was to have a Genesis dealer network of about 110 stores (including a # that weren't Hyundai franchisees).

A rather modest 80 sales/month per dealership (that wouldn't be enough to cover costs in the more expensive areas) would require an annual production allocation of 105,600 vehicles.

But that plan went put the window after other Hyundai dealerships which were shut out from acquiring a Genesis franchise sued, so ended up having to offer one to every Hyundai dealership owner that wanted one.

Hyundai ended up with over triple the amount of Genesis franchisees than what they had originally planned for despite offering severance packages as much as several million to not take them up on the offer.

Over the past year or so, a couple of dozen Genesis franchisees have given up their franchise since they didn't find it financially feasible to continue as an ongoing operation with the immense capital layout required of them by corporate for new facilities.

That still leaves 295 or so Genesis franchisees currently.

To supply 295 dealerships with 80 vehicles/month requires Genesis to ship over 283,200 vehicles annually.

They are in no condition currently to even coming close to those production figures.

Right now, Genesis is supplying around 60k/yr and they may be able to get it up to 70-75k within a year/18 months time.

But they won't be able to provide much more than that until they finish building the new factories planned for Georgia and Korea.

So you still think it makes sense for every Genesis franchisee to borrow millions to build out a new dealership and bleed $$ for years until HMG has enough production capacity to adequately supply them? Lol

Sure, there are a # of Genesis dealerships which have built or are in the process of building a new facilities, but these are deep pocketed, big dealership groups which can afford the pain.

You really think you know better than the owners/GMs of Genesis dealerships as to what they are financially able to handle? Lol

They all have to meet a certain deadline for new facilities set by Genesis corporate - but I'm sure Genesis corporate set the deadline at a time which would best ensure the success.

I'm not just saying this as a cheerleader, but it's just the economic realities; I've been harshly critically of a good # of things that Genesis corporate had done in the past.



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And really, as also previously pointed out to you, there really isn't that much difference btwn running a Genesis or a Porsche dealership, much less a Lamborghini.

It basically comes down to different amounts of volume needed to hit a certain level of profit.

Of course, Lamborghini makes up for low volume with high margins per sale, but the difference isn't that great btwn Genesis and Porsche as Porsche dealerships make the bulk of their profits from Macan and Cayenne sales, just as Genesis dealerships make the bulk of their profits from GV70 and GV80 sales.
As previously pointed out to you

Its makes a big difference when you have something that is covering the overwhelming majority( if not all ) of your overhead

Like I said before
Imagine if they were selling Lexus out of an alcove of the same building that was basically a Toyota dealer
Can you imagine the profits of those dealers?

However, they decided that this was not the way to market in the United States
I am sure the costs were significantly higher( and continue to be) for Toyota to do business like this for the Lexus brand

I agree with them though
I dont think you can sell luxury vehicles in the United States without the luxury experience that is common place
I posted the same thing back in 2016

Warren
 
As previously pointed out to you

Its makes a big difference when you have something that is covering the overwhelming majority( if not all ) of your overhead

Like I said before
Imagine if they were selling Lexus out of an alcove of the same building that was basically a Toyota dealer
Can you imagine the profits of those dealers?

However, they decided that this was not the way to market in the United States
I am sure the costs were significantly higher( and continue to be) for Toyota to do business like this for the Lexus brand

I agree with them though
I dont think you can sell luxury vehicles in the United States without the luxury experience that is common place
I posted the same thing back in 2016

Warren
That was a prescient comment
 
As previously pointed out to you

Its makes a big difference when you have something that is covering the overwhelming majority( if not all ) of your overhead

Like I said before
Imagine if they were selling Lexus out of an alcove of the same building that was basically a Toyota dealer
Can you imagine the profits of those dealers?

However, they decided that this was not the way to market in the United States
I am sure the costs were significantly higher( and continue to be) for Toyota to do business like this for the Lexus brand

I agree with them though
I dont think you can sell luxury vehicles in the United States without the luxury experience that is common place
I posted the same thing back in 2016

Hence, the vast majority of Genesis franchise dealerships waiting (until supply gets better) before they go ahead and get strapped with a huge monthly debt payment, and why Genesis corporate is giving them the breathing room to do so.

If HMG had the production capacity to supply each Genesis dealership w/ 820 vehicles/yr like Toyota was able to do for Lexus franchisee, there would be a lot more stand alone Genesis stores presently, but right now, Genesis is only able to supply about a quarter of that.

Like I had said, it would also be a different story if Genesis had been able to go ahead with its original plan for a Genesis dealer network of around 100 stores - due to greater volume being allocated to 100 or so stores as opposed to 300 or so stores.

Eh - for the long haul, having a separate dealer network would matter, but for the short term, it doesn't as Genesis sells pretty much every vehicle allocated to the US and at a significantly higher premium and ATP than Lexus.

Thought that Genesis may be able to supply 2,500 GV70s (which still isn't enough) a month, but last month only managed to move less than 1,200.

That's 4 GV70s (their volume seller) per dealership.

Can't emphasize it enough, right now there isn't anywhere close to the supply to adequately supply all the Genesis franchisees.

Toyota had no such problem in adequately supplying Lexus dealerships.

Also, considering that many Lexus models are tarted-up, Toyota-based, they are in greater need to get a physical separation from Toyota.

Otherwise, more prospective buyers would be asking themselves if really was worth the extra $10k to get the ES over the Avalon or tt he RX over the Highlander in the same showroom/lot.

You don’t have that issue with the RWD Genesis lineup.

Btw, there's nothing of note that you pointed out for me.

I'm well aware that Genesis franchisees current favorable status with regard to profitability is due to all the savings on overhead (I emphasized that numerous times), so why would their respective owners/GMs want to jeopardize that?

HMG is also aware that many Hyundai dealerships were struggling financially until recently (when they still had a sedan heavy lineup/sales), so it's a good thing to give them some breathing room and make some good bank before they are burdened with a huge debt load.
 
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Wow..more speculation...but lets run with that

So based on your speculation..how could Toyota/Lexus have opened free standing dealerships in the last few years?

They are facing the same costs...right?

Not only that..there are several newer free standing Lexus dealers that are over 150,000 square feet
You do realize that right?

The two examples I used ..Arlington and Plano...both are on some very expensive real estate

You used Porsche as an example compared to Genesis correct?
Based on your capacity and volume statement how are there free standing Porsche dealerships?

As for a " luxury" Hyundai dealer
Give me some examples where those are because I have yet to see one

You like to compare apples and oranges but you dont seem to like to use what are real comparables

Do you have difficulty with reading comprehension?

The examples you cited were for existing Lexus dealerships that had been in business for 30 and 32 years.

That's a totally different scenario and akin to Hyundai dealerships which have built a new dealership to replace the old one.

Those dealerships evidently have the sales/profits where they can afford to do so.

But unlike Lexus or Hyundai, Genesis (once again; this is like bashing my head against the wall) does NOT have the production capacity to adequately supply its dealerships, and actually is far from being able to do so.

I'm sure Lexus even added a # of new franchisees over the past decade in high growth metro areas, but they had the production capacity to supply those new dealerships.

Again, the typical Lexus dealership in 2016 did $3.2 million in profit.

Even an underperforming Lexus store doing, say, only $2.1 million in profit is still 3x what the typical Hyundai dealership was doing.

So, you want these owners of Hyundai dealerships - who weren't making much to begin with to sink millions into a guaranteed $$-losing proposition (until Genesis is able to vastly expand production capacity)? Lol
 
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Do you have difficulty with reading comprehension?

The examples you cited were for existing Lexus dealerships that had been in business for 30 and 32 years.

That's a totally different scenario and akin to Hyundai dealerships which have built a new dealership to replace the old one.

Those dealerships evidently have the sales/profits where they can afford to do so.

But unlike Lexus or Hyundai, Genesis (once again; this is like bashing my head against the wall) does NOT have the production capacity to adequately supply its dealerships, and actually is far from being able to do so.

I'm sure Lexus even added a # of new franchisees over the past decade in high growth metro areas, but they had the production capacity to supply those new dealerships.

Again, the typical Lexus dealership in 2016 did $3.2 million in profit.

Even an underperforming Lexus store doing, say, only $2.1 million in profit is still 3x what the typical Hyundai dealership was doing.

So, you want these owners of Hyundai dealerships - who weren't making much to begin with to sink millions into a guaranteed $$-losing proposition (until Genesis is able to vastly expand production capacity)? Lol
No...that is not accurate
That have been several newer Lexus dealerships since 2015

But based on what you say how would they have afforded to build such dealerships..since land and construction is so much higher than in the past?
By the way..Mercedes and BMW have new dealership as well. This is not just a Lexus specific situation
Do you want examples of new Mercedes and BMW dealers built in the last 5 years from the ground up?

Mercedes Benz of McKinney Texas( Dallas area) is a perfect example

What is your definition of under performing?( this should be good :))
What are you basing the production capacity to supply dealerships on?..There are no waiting lists on Genesis
So what " perceived"volume number is lacking?

There are brands that sell fewer vehicles than Genesis that have free standing dealerships
You realize that ..correct?



Lets also throw in the fact that these Lexus dealerships have much higher overhead to start with than Genesis. They dont have another brand subsidizing the dealership

So examples like the Porsche one you used are apples and oranges due to the extremely different structural differences of the business..you realize that correct?

I will state again...Lexus( Toyota) opened 65 dealerships in the United States in 1989 and had over 100 in the first year

When they opened these dealerships Toyota didnt know what they were going to sell and it could have been a big loss situation..because they didnt have Toyota's there to carry the dealership costs.

Warren
 
As an outsider I'm just wondering if either of you can remember what the initial discussion was concerning. At this point is is just a bunch of back and forth with meaningless speculation, questions, inconsequential data, examples, etc and any real point not being made. I would suggest just ending it since it certainly isn't productive.
 
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