May 2020 sales

[YEH]

Not surprisingly, the G70 and G80 are down for the month, but the G90 managed to scrape by w/ a slight increase.

G70 - 870
G80 - 319
G90 - 161 (158)

YTD, the F/L G90 is ahead of last year's pace despite everything.

939 to 777


Been hearing that the lease rates for Genesis aren't particularly generous.

 

[DarinG90]

Not surprisingly, the G70 and G80 are down for the month, but the G90 managed to scrape by w/ a slight increase.

G70 - 870
G80 - 319
G90 - 161 (158)

YTD, the F/L G90 is ahead of last year's pace despite everything.

939 to 777


Been hearing that the lease rates for Genesis aren't particularly generous.

I wonder what the "margin contribution per model is". How much profit they earn per vehicle. It wouldn't surprise me if the profit on those 161 G90s is equal to, or greater than the profit they earn on those 870 G70s. I dont have a clue, mind you.

I once worked for a large hardware tech company. Mulitple divisions. My division was small making very specialized hardware for industrial customers - we sold roughly $60million per year but with very high margins. The division beside us in the building sold consumer-level high-tech - $400-500 Million per year. Yet our gross profits in $$$ were almost exactly the same. Our CEO began to love us, and hate them. hehe. More problems, super tight margins, massive marketing expenses, and no room for error.

Not sure if it's a similar thing at Genesis with these models.

 

[TurtleBoy]

^ Perhaps @YEH or someone has seen the year end reports but I wonder if Genesis is even making a profit the last few years. The sales have not been great and they are doing a lot of development although those costs are probably allocated over multiple years.

 

[YEH]

I wonder what the "margin contribution per model is". How much profit they earn per vehicle. It wouldn't surprise me if the profit on those 161 G90s is equal to, or greater than the profit they earn on those 870 G70s. I dont have a clue, mind you.

You're likely on the right track.

After some rough years (due to the over-reliance on sedans in the US and aging models in Korea), Hyundai started seeing a rise in profit during the 1Q of 2018 largely due to Korean sales of the F/L G90 and the Palisade (note that HMG has high expenses due to all the new vehicles they have in development, including for Genesis).

Figure that something similar follows here; albeit, w/ the Palisade driving more profit due to the difference in sales compared to Korea - 7,866 Palisades sold vs. 161 G90s (in Korea, far more G90s were sold), but wouldn't be surprised at all if the margins on the G90 are enough to equal the profit on G70 sales.

Figure in Korea presently that it's the GV80, G80 and the F/L Grandeur driving a lot of the profit as Hyundai has diverted Palisade supply to the US and G90 sales have fallen some.

Re the F/L Grandeur, it has been a huge success for Hyundai in Korea. The F/L Cadenza started off well, outselling the pre-F/L Grandeur, but once the F/L model hit the pre-orders, the Grandeur has been far outselling the Cadenza (which is why Kia is rushing the next gen Cadenza).

Higher end sales, whether it be lux or performance is where much of the profit making ability resides.

Despite only being about 2 years since its launch, Cupra is already the most profitable part of SEAT.

Wouldn't be surprised at all if Hyundai's N division similarly becomes a big $$-maker (in Germany, N-sales make up somewhere btwn 30-40% of i30 sales which is astounding).

But even the mainstream (boring) models can play their part.

The ATP for the Sonata is now the highest within its segment and that's w/o the hybrid or the performance oriented N-line yet being available.

W/ the major overhaul of the Santa Fe (like for the Grandeur), think it'll be a nice combination of margin and volume.

But while the margins on the upcoming Genesis models and the new/upgraded Hyundai models should be better than what they have been in the past, the Germans are engaging in a price war and the cost of meeting Europe's upcoming WLTP regs is high.

 

[Slip_Angle]

Stinger has 1393 in May... I find it strange the Stinger is out selling the G70. I could see them being close but it was a big difference in May.

Seems like we've had so many more G70 owners join the forum here too. I was really thinking sales were up... hmm.

 

[MyCorvette]

I tracked the G90 US inventory very frequently. I can see during May, there is a significant drop of inventory for 2019 model yr G90, so obviously quite a percentage of the 161 units sold are 2019 models.

Also for the past month, Hyundai/Genesis buyers are heavily subsidized by the auto maker (not just the factory-to-consumer rebate, there were also trunk of factory-to-dealer supporting money which ultimately passed on to consumer), not sure whether this business pattern is sustainable and for how long.

 

[YEH]

^ Last time I checked (April 4), Autotrader listed the following:

2019MY - 146
2020MY - 169

Presently, they are listing:

2019MY - 120
2020MY - 246

So, at least based on Autotrader's listings, that's only 26 fewer listings for '19MY compared to what it was for 2 months ago. (13 '19MY sales per month does not jive at all w/ what you're claiming).

You brought up the same ol' arguments for the March sales data and already told you then that there have been LS buyers from about a year ago who were able to negotiate 20% off list.

Imagine that one could negotiate an even greater discount on a '19MY LS.

Autotrader is showing the following # of listing for the LS 500.

2019MY - 121
2020MY - 463

So there is actually a greater supply of the LS on the lots.

And the Germans (esp. BMW and MB) are getting even more aggressive w/ their lease deals (pricing/leasing being one of the major factors that the CEO of Toyota NA has stated in Lexus RWD sales not being more competitive).

Can lease a 7er for not much more per month than for the '20 G90.

Pretty hilarious that your assertion holds little water, but you seem to do nothing but piss on Genesis while ignoring the fact that other automakers are doing the same thing.

And if anything, the lease deals on the '20MY G70 and G90 are too high.

 

[MyCorvette]

^ Last time I checked (April 4), Autotrader listed the following:

2019MY - 146
2020MY - 169

Presently, they are listing:

2019MY - 120
2020MY - 246

So, at least based on Autotrader's listings, that's only 26 fewer listings for '19MY compared to what it was for 2 months ago. (13 '19MY sales per month does not jive at all w/ what you're claiming).

You brought up the same ol' arguments for the March sales data and already told you then that there have been LS buyers from about a year ago who were able to negotiate 20% off list.

Imagine that one could negotiate an even greater discount on a '19MY LS.

Autotrader is showing the following # of listing for the LS 500.

2019MY - 121
2020MY - 463

So there is actually a greater supply of the LS on the lots.

And the Germans (esp. BMW and MB) are getting even more aggressive w/ their lease deals (pricing/leasing being one of the major factors that the CEO of Toyota NA has stated in Lexus RWD sales not being more competitive).

Can lease a 7er for not much more per month than for the '20 G90.

Pretty hilarious that your assertion holds little water, but you seem to do nothing but piss on Genesis while ignoring the fact that other automakers are doing the same thing.

And if anything, the lease deals on the '20MY G70 and G90 are too high.

Autotrader data is inaccurate since lots of dealers did not remove the listing after the vehicle is sold or transferred.

I got the accurate data from my friend who works in the corporate.

 

[YEH]

^ Well, Cargurus is showing something similar, and even if that were the case, being that there were less than 150 '19MY G90s listed back on April 4th, so even if the inventory of '19MY has completed been depleted (which is doubtful), that's 75 sales/month.

Care to enlighten us in how many '19MY G90s are left in inventory?

And you still overlook that everyone is majorly discounting sedans, and that if anything, Genesis needs more competitive lease deals.

 

[MyCorvette]

^ Well, Cargurus is showing something similar, and even if that were the case, being that there were less than 150 '19MY G90s listed back on April 4th, so even if the inventory of '19MY has completed been depleted (which is doubtful), that's 75 sales/month.

Care to enlighten us in how many '19MY G90s are left in inventory?

And you still overlook that everyone is majorly discounting sedans, and that if anything, Genesis needs more competitive lease deals.

What I suggest is to not use 3rd party websites when you want accurate data. Dealer may not even put inventory in it, and may not remove vehicles that are sold. So how many units listed there is of no use in this discussion.

Exact numbers of the detailed sales information is confidential, what HMA/GMA allows to publish to the public is all shown in the press release. My friend told me not to reveal exact numbers to outside so he does not violate the corporate policy, if you are interested you can ask people who works in the company.

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[YEH]

^ Not asking for exact nos., but surely you can let us know whether there are more/less than 150, 100 or 50 '19MY G90s left

And yes, understand that 3rd party websites aren't exact, but there's at least a certain level of consistency to their inaccuracy.

Plus, it's not like there were loads of '19MY G90s laying around as the pre-F/L G90s went out of production around Oct. of 2018, and every auto-maker is trying to get rid of the last of their '19MY at this juncture.