First Generation MSA X-Pipe/Dynomax VTs

[chewbakarox]

I've had Dynomax VTs installed for about 2 weeks now on my 2014 R-Spec. I selected the VTs given their reputation for being subtle; however, after driving around I think they are a little too subtle. I'm hoping to add just a touch more volume to hear the V-8 a little more, without going overboard.

I know the MSA X-pipe replaces the factory H-pipe. I believe the H-pipe includes 2 resonators (one for each side). Can anyone chime in what, if any, difference the X-pipe would make in tone or volume?

Thanks in advance.

 

[dmitriylm]

If you don't already have test pipes that's the route I would go. My VT's by themselves sounded great but I also felt they were a bit reserved. With my test pipes in place they are still nice and drone free while offering an aggressive exhaust note under throttle.

Here are a few videos if you're interested:

Dig: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EM0rWrA8jNI

Flyby: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uDYw1xdIqBo

 

[chewbakarox]

Thanks dmitriylm. I live in California and was hoping to avoid messing with cat deletes if possible. Anyone else have experience with the MSA X-pipe?

 

[dmitriylm]

Thanks dmitriylm. I live in California and was hoping to avoid messing with cat deletes if possible. Anyone else have experience with the MSA X-pipe?

I live in California as well and while I understand the concern with cat deletes the test pipes only replace the secondary cats which means that you will not receive a check engine light or throw any codes and the car will pass California emissions since they don't even throw the car on the dyno these days. On the off chance that you get submitted to a visual (not likely with these cars), you can just reinstall the OEM secondary cats. I should mention that with the secondary cats removed there is also no fuel smell as you would get with removed primaries.

My thinking on the X pipe is that while it will change the type of sound, it will not heavily influence a change in volume.

 

[chewbakarox]

I live in California as well and while I understand the concern with cat deletes the test pipes only replace the secondary cats which means that you will not receive a check engine light or throw any codes and the car will pass California emissions since they don't even throw the car on the dyno these days. On the off chance that you get submitted to a visual (not likely with these cars), you can just reinstall the OEM secondary cats. I should mention that with the secondary cats removed there is also no fuel smell as you would get with removed primaries.

My thinking on the X pipe is that while it will change the type of sound, it will not heavily influence a change in volume.

dmitriylm: Thanks for the input. Based on your advice, I think I will give them a try. They are pretty affordable too.

When did CARB stop requiring dyno smog checks? Can you confirm that you've passed the sniffer with the test pipes on?

 

[dmitriylm]

dmitriylm: Thanks for the input. Based on your advice, I think I will give them a try. They are pretty affordable too.

When did CARB stop requiring dyno smog checks? Can you confirm that you've passed the sniffer with the test pipes on?

My understanding is that in California vehicles later than model year 2000 are not subject to the sniffer. They only need to pass a visual and electronic check (via OBDII). At least in my experience, most shops are pretty lax about visual so they only check for electronics. My car has yet to go under the sniffer so I can't confirm that it will pass but I can say that you likely won't be tested and if the situation arises, the test pipes can be removed in under a half hour with limited effort.

Here is a good resource: http://www.bar.ca.gov/Consumer/New_Smog_Check_Test.html

"Smog Check Program's Updated Test Technology

Californians getting Smog Checks today may notice that the traditional tailpipe test used for many years has been replaced by a quicker, computer-based test for gasoline-powered cars model-year 2000 and newer, and for most diesel vehicles that are model-year 1998 and newer.

This updated test uses the diagnostic capabilities of the vehicle's computer system instead of the traditional tailpipe probe to measure the vehicle's emissions. This On-Board Diagnostic (OBD) system gathers information and determines if the vehicle's emission control systems are operating properly. A visual inspection of emission control components is still required as well.

The OBD only method of testing vehicles is the result of 2010 legislation (AB 2289-Eng) which is designed to improve the Smog Check Program and further reduce air pollution. The Smog Check program removes hundreds of tons of smog-forming pollutants from California's air every day.

Gasoline-powered vehicles model-year 1999 and older will continue to receive Smog Checks using a tailpipe probe as well as the OBD test."

 

[chewbakarox]

My understanding is that in California vehicles later than model year 2000 are not subject to the sniffer. They only need to pass a visual and electronic check (via OBDII). At least in my experience, most shops are pretty lax about visual so they only check for electronics. My car has yet to go under the sniffer so I can't confirm that it will pass but I can say that you likely won't be tested and if the situation arises, the test pipes can be removed in under a half hour with limited effort.

Here is a good resource: http://www.bar.ca.gov/Consumer/New_Smog_Check_Test.html

"Smog Check Program's Updated Test Technology

Californians getting Smog Checks today may notice that the traditional tailpipe test used for many years has been replaced by a quicker, computer-based test for gasoline-powered cars model-year 2000 and newer, and for most diesel vehicles that are model-year 1998 and newer.

This updated test uses the diagnostic capabilities of the vehicle's computer system instead of the traditional tailpipe probe to measure the vehicle's emissions. This On-Board Diagnostic (OBD) system gathers information and determines if the vehicle's emission control systems are operating properly. A visual inspection of emission control components is still required as well.

The OBD only method of testing vehicles is the result of 2010 legislation (AB 2289-Eng) which is designed to improve the Smog Check Program and further reduce air pollution. The Smog Check program removes hundreds of tons of smog-forming pollutants from California's air every day.

Gasoline-powered vehicles model-year 1999 and older will continue to receive Smog Checks using a tailpipe probe as well as the OBD test."

Interesting. Odd - I had a 2003 WRX that required a sniffer each time I had to have it smogged (I only remember this since I failed multiple times!!). Maybe it had to do with AWD, or limitations on the Subaru OBD system.

In any case, you are right - it would be an easy fix to put the secondary cats back on. Plus, I'm not due for a smog for a few years anyways since it's a new-ish car.

I'll be putting in my order with MSA shortly... thank you for the input.

 

[dmitriylm]

Interesting. Odd - I had a 2003 WRX that required a sniffer each time I had to have it smogged (I only remember this since I failed multiple times!!). Maybe it had to do with AWD, or limitations on the Subaru OBD system.

In any case, you are right - it would be an easy fix to put the secondary cats back on. Plus, I'm not due for a smog for a few years anyways since it's a new-ish car.

I'll be putting in my order with MSA shortly... thank you for the input.

This update to the SMOG law was passed in 2010 so I'm not sure if your WRX was prior to that. They also have a special gross polluters list with exempted cars that do require a sniffer regardless of year and you can guess the kinds of cars you're likely to find that list (I'm sure WRX's and EVO's are somewhere up top). Unless the Genesis Sedan performance aftermarket blows up something crazy (not likely given the nature of the car) you're not likely to ever put your car on a sniffer.

 

[84FordMan]

The MSA Xpipe with stock mufflers changed nothing for me. I went with Magnaflows in the rear, Vibrant 12" resonators cut into the MSA Xpipe and test pipes. It has presence for sure now, but nowhere near as loud as my Coupe was.

 

[chewbakarox]

The MSA Xpipe with stock mufflers changed nothing for me. I went with Magnaflows in the rear, Vibrant 12" resonators cut into the MSA Xpipe and test pipes. It has presence for sure now, but nowhere near as loud as my Coupe was.

Thanks for the input. Nice to have someone chime in with direct experience with and without the X-pipe.

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[chewbakarox]

As an update to this thread, I installed my MSA cat deletes over the weekend. I have yet to take it on a long highway drive, but driving around town I can say it is exactly what I was looking for. A throatier sound throughout the power band, louder than the VTs alone, but not overwhelming and no drone.

On a scale of 1-10, with one being stock and 10 being obnoxiously loud, I would say the VTs along were a 3 and the VTs with cat deletes are a 4. A slight, but noticeable increase in V8 rumble on my Rspec (and still passed the infamous wife test).

 

[dmitriylm]

As an update to this thread, I installed my MSA cat deletes over the weekend. I have yet to take it on a long highway drive, but driving around town I can say it is exactly what I was looking for. A throatier sound throughout the power band, louder than the VTs alone, but not overwhelming and no drone.

On a scale of 1-10, with one being stock and 10 being obnoxiously loud, I would say the VTs along were a 3 and the VTs with cat deletes are a 4. A slight, but noticeable increase in V8 rumble on my Rspec (and still passed the infamous wife test).

I'd actually rate volume higher than a 4. You'd be surprised how far away you can hear the car from outside. In the youtube vids I recorded with a crappy cell phone microphone you can hear the exhaust note quite a ways down. It's not stupid obnoxious but its nowhere near reserved either.

 

[MathWiz]

I am just wondering if the OBD will sense the secondary Cat deletion, and it would really come down to a visual inspection.

I just had to do an Smog Check to sell my 2005 Camry and the tech did a pretty comprehensive visual inspection with a flash light and mirror, but as rare as our cars are, he might look right past the test pipes.

Charles

 

[84FordMan]

The secondary cats are not monitored, the downstream oxygen sensors are a good three feet ahead of the secondary cats.

The purpose of them is to have a single exhaust system. In years past, manufacturers had one exhaust system that would meet federal emissions standards, and then another exhaust system intended to meet California emissions standards.

If your state does a sniffer test, then best to leave them on (Or put them back on when it comes inspection time), but as I understand it, only California does the sniffer test and in other states you can request it if you are going to fail off of a Not Ready status.

 

[MathWiz]

The secondary cats are not monitored, the downstream oxygen sensors are a good three feet ahead of the secondary cats.

The purpose of them is to have a single exhaust system. In years past, manufacturers had one exhaust system that would meet federal emissions standards, and then another exhaust system intended to meet California emissions standards.

If your state does a sniffer test, then best to leave them on (Or put them back on when it comes inspection time), but as I understand it, only California does the sniffer test and in other states you can request it if you are going to fail off of a Not Ready status.

Thank you for that info, as of 2010, no more sniffer tests for model year 2000 and up in California. Only an OBD test and a visual inspection again relying upon the technician to know what to look for. I think the high quality of the MSA test pipes will "pass inspection".

I am going to go the same path as dmitriylm and go with the secondary cat delete, the Dynomax VTs and also the MSA Tips.

Charles

 

[LandoAWD]

Note that the MSA deletes now come in black, so they stand out a bit...

 

[dmitriylm]

I'm actually thinking of getting a set of OEM secondary cats and gutting them so that I don't have to worry about pulling them off for the visual portion of the CA test. I still have the one from my 2.0T coupe and it looks to be identical to the sedan secondary cats. Can anyone confirm if the coupe uses the same part as the sedan? If so I'm just going to source one more secondary cat from a coupe and gut them so that I can save my OEM secondaries for later.

 

[MathWiz]

I'm actually thinking of getting a set of OEM secondary cats and gutting them so that I don't have to worry about pulling them off for the visual portion of the CA test. I still have the one from my 2.0T coupe and it looks to be identical to the sedan secondary cats. Can anyone confirm if the coupe uses the same part as the sedan? If so I'm just going to source one more secondary cat from a coupe and gut them so that I can save my OEM secondaries for later.

I like how you think

Charles

 

[dmitriylm]

I like how you think

Charles

Yeah, this should pass visual and pass the OBD portion since nothing is measured aft of the primary cats. The added benefit is that my MSA's have a small exhaust leak due to the flange bolt holes so using OEM cats should correct this as well.